VAT and prepayment tax registration dispute
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VAT and prepayment tax registration dispute
Hello, I would need some legal help about tax registration. So I paid a construction company to do a remodelling work on my flat a few weeks ago. They sent me invoices every week and I paid according to it. Then I found on BIS that the VAT and prepayment tax registration of this company has expired, but the payment they sent on the invoice is with the 24% VAT, which means they actually won't pay the VAT to the tax office but they charged me with VAT. The worse thing is about the prepayment tax registration, since they don't register for this prepayment tax, I have to pay 13% of the net payment for them to the tax office.
I have contacted the foreman of the remodelling work and asked them to return the 24% VAT and also compensate me the 13% of the net payment. But they said there is no problem on their VAT and prepayment tax registration. If I show them the information I found on BIS, but they still refuse to return me the payment. What should I do. Should I call the police or find a lawyer to help? Please give me some advises. Thank you very much in advance.
I have contacted the foreman of the remodelling work and asked them to return the 24% VAT and also compensate me the 13% of the net payment. But they said there is no problem on their VAT and prepayment tax registration. If I show them the information I found on BIS, but they still refuse to return me the payment. What should I do. Should I call the police or find a lawyer to help? Please give me some advises. Thank you very much in advance.
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Re: VAT and prepayment tax registration dispute
When you don't get the other party to pay voluntarily, your only option to collect is through the courts. You would want a lawyer for that and he/she can then advice on other other aspects of the case. Whether to try and do anything is unclear since the company is likely to be broke.molly_molly wrote:If I show them the information I found on BIS, but they still refuse to return me the payment. What should I do. Should I call the police or find a lawyer to help? Please give me some advises. Thank you very much in advance.
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Re: VAT and prepayment tax registration dispute
betelgeuse wrote:When you don't get the other party to pay voluntarily, your only option to collect is through the courts. You would want a lawyer for that and he/she can then advice on other other aspects of the case. Whether to try and do anything is unclear since the company is likely to be broke.molly_molly wrote:If I show them the information I found on BIS, but they still refuse to return me the payment. What should I do. Should I call the police or find a lawyer to help? Please give me some advises. Thank you very much in advance.
Hey, betelgeuse, thanks for the reply. So if I do sue the company, and they really go broke, and that's it? I mean, it's already a commercial fraud I think, and the people who's in charge in the company can just walk away without any punishment and maybe do the same thing to another person again with a new registered company? Could I sue the person who signed the remodelling contract with me and ask him personally to compensate my loss?
Re: VAT and prepayment tax registration dispute
It might depend on what kind of company he has: Oy (limited co) Ky or toiminimi (sole trader).
If he owes money to Vero, they won't let him get off. Don't worry!
But IIRC tge onus is on the buyer to check for VAT registration and current status. Definitely worth doing when dealing with sole traders and small businesses. Especially if you want to deduct the work from your income tax....(home improvements tax break)
If he owes money to Vero, they won't let him get off. Don't worry!
But IIRC tge onus is on the buyer to check for VAT registration and current status. Definitely worth doing when dealing with sole traders and small businesses. Especially if you want to deduct the work from your income tax....(home improvements tax break)
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Re: VAT and prepayment tax registration dispute
Hey, thanks for the information. I think they are Oy. And my friend just told me as well it should be my responsibility to check their tax status before I paid the invoice. But I'm a foreigner, who knows I should do that, and I have paid so many invoices in Finland before and this kind of thing never happened. Could I just ask Vero to request them pay the VAT and the prepayment tax? Do you think Vero would help me?Rosamunda wrote:It might depend on what kind of company he has: Oy (limited co) Ky or toiminimi (sole trader).
If he owes money to Vero, they won't let him get off. Don't worry!
But IIRC tge onus is on the buyer to check for VAT registration and current status. Definitely worth doing when dealing with sole traders and small businesses. Especially if you want to deduct the work from your income tax....(home improvements tax break)
Re: VAT and prepayment tax registration dispute
Generally speaking, Vero (tax office) is very helpful - after all, they have nothing to gain from being obnoxious to taxpayers! So, I guess you could call them and explain your situation in all honesty and ask them for some advice. They might take pity on you and they might also be very interested to see the invoices that the company sent you.
Or, maybe there is just some misunderstanding that could be sorted out without the need to involve lawyers.
Or, maybe there is just some misunderstanding that could be sorted out without the need to involve lawyers.
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Re: VAT and prepayment tax registration dispute
Vero definitely cares about people charging VAT without being in the VAT-register. It's an open question for me whether the buyer has a duty to check that. I am leaning towards no but would have to check.Rosamunda wrote:Generally speaking, Vero (tax office) is very helpful - after all, they have nothing to gain from being obnoxious to taxpayers! So, I guess you could call them and explain your situation in all honesty and ask them for some advice. They might take pity on you and they might also be very interested to see the invoices that the company sent you.
Re: VAT and prepayment tax registration dispute
My understanding was that in B2B transactions the buyer needs to ensure that the seller is registered. I'm not sure about B2C (which I guess is the case here). It seems unreasonable to expect ordinary people to log on to the Trade Registry and check a company's status...
Re: VAT and prepayment tax registration dispute
Like write on phone ytj.fi and typing the name of the company or y-tunnus? Doesn't seem too unreasonable for me.Rosamunda wrote:It seems unreasonable to expect ordinary people to log on to the Trade Registry and check a company's status...
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Re: VAT and prepayment tax registration dispute
There is a requirement for the buyer to check the registration in the withholding register when buying human work for both B2B and B2C. Households do get an exception of 1500 euros per employee per year.Rosamunda wrote:My understanding was that in B2B transactions the buyer needs to ensure that the seller is registered. I'm not sure about B2C (which I guess is the case here). It seems unreasonable to expect ordinary people to log on to the Trade Registry and check a company's status...
https://www.vero.fi/syventavat-vero-ohj ... _ennakon8/
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Re: VAT and prepayment tax registration dispute
If you don't check, you don't even know if you are dealing with a real company. Would you make a significant contract with someone without checking their id?Upphew wrote:Like write on phone ytj.fi and typing the name of the company or y-tunnus? Doesn't seem too unreasonable for me.Rosamunda wrote:It seems unreasonable to expect ordinary people to log on to the Trade Registry and check a company's status...
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Re: VAT and prepayment tax registration dispute
Well, actually, I did check their VAT and prepayment status when we signed the contract, and their registration expired after a few days we signed the contract. So when their first invoice arrived, their VAT and prepayment registration has expired already and I didn't check again when I started to pay the invoice...betelgeuse wrote:If you don't check, you don't even know if you are dealing with a real company. Would you make a significant contract with someone without checking their id?Upphew wrote:Like write on phone ytj.fi and typing the name of the company or y-tunnus? Doesn't seem too unreasonable for me.Rosamunda wrote:It seems unreasonable to expect ordinary people to log on to the Trade Registry and check a company's status...
Re: VAT and prepayment tax registration dispute
Imho that sounds like you did your due diligence and you might have a fraud case in your hands.molly_molly wrote:Well, actually, I did check their VAT and prepayment status when we signed the contract, and their registration expired after a few days we signed the contract. So when their first invoice arrived, their VAT and prepayment registration has expired already and I didn't check again when I started to pay the invoice...
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Re: VAT and prepayment tax registration dispute
And they have collected the VAT from you.
Who told you to pay the 13% to Vero?
Who told you to pay the 13% to Vero?
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Re: VAT and prepayment tax registration dispute
Hey, it was the person who does the bookkeeping for me, cause I'm working as toiminimi, and this remodelling is for my office. So I was expecting to deduct the 24% VAT afterwards, and found the payment is not deductible, namely, I paid the construction company more than I was suppose to pay...Rosamunda wrote:And they have collected the VAT from you.
Who told you to pay the 13% to Vero?