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enk
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Post by enk » Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:25 am

Claudio52 wrote:
Hank W. wrote:Surisiko kärpänen kaverinsa kuollessa?
something about a dead fly....that+s already too much finnish for me. Or maybe I just don't want to understand finnish anymore. I'm over-finnished ;)
It's a play on words:

surisi < surra 'lamentare' o
surisi < surista 'ronzare'

(if I remember my Italian correctly :D)

-enk



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kalmisto
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Post by kalmisto » Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:56 pm

>> Hank W. wrote:
Surisiko kärpänen kaverinsa kuollessa?

something about a dead fly....that+s already too much finnish for me. Or maybe I just don't want to understand finnish anymore. I'm over-finnished <<

See here what a morphological analyzer of Finnish says about "surisiko" ! :
http://www2.lingsoft.fi/cgi-bin/fintwol?word=surisiko

You can see that the basic form of "surisiko" is either "surra" ( to mourn ) or "surista" ( to buzz ). Both are possible.

Thus "surisiko kärpänen" can be understood in two different ways :

"would a fly mourn?" or "did the fly buzz?"

Hank´s question can be understood in two different ways :

1. Surisiko kärpänen kaverinsa kuollessa? = Surisiko kärpänen jos sen kaveri kuolisi ? ( Would a fly mourn if its buddy died ? )

2. Surisiko kärpänen kaverinsa kuollessa = Surisiko kärpänen kun sen kaveri kuoli ? ( Did the fly buzz when its buddy died ? )

A literal translation of "kaverinsa kuollessa" would be "at its/his buddy´s death".

The tags for the morphological analyzer are here :
http://www2.lingsoft.fi/doc/fintwol/intro/tags.html
Last edited by kalmisto on Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.

kalmisto
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Post by kalmisto » Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:12 pm

Claudio 52

"I heard a fly buzz when I died" ( Kuulin kärpäsen surisevan kuollessani ) :
http://quotations.about.com/cs/poemlyri ... _A_Fly.htm

kuollessani ( at my death ) = kun kuolin ( when I died )

skuld
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Post by skuld » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:48 pm

Hi!
I am new here!

kalmisto
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Post by kalmisto » Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:36 pm

skuld wrote:Hi!
I am new here!
In Finnish you would say "Olen uusi täällä!"

Tervetuloa foorumiin! ( Welcome to the forum! )

Does your member name "skuld" come from Swedish?

kalmisto
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Post by kalmisto » Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:39 pm

Claudio 52

"Surisiko kärpänen ?" ( Did the fly buzz ? ) is pronounced exactly as it is written:
http://www.mikropuhe.com/demo.asp?maile ... %E4nen+%3F

"Surisiko kärpänen ? " ( Would a fly mourn ? ) is pronounced "Surisikko kärpänen?" :
http://www.mikropuhe.com/demo.asp?maile ... %E4nen+%3F

Finnish is not always entirely phonetical.

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Mark I.
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Post by Mark I. » Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:44 pm

kalmisto wrote: Finnish is not always entirely phonetical.
Well, I would pronounce the both exactly the same way, but then again I'm snobbish?

kalmisto
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Post by kalmisto » Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:38 pm

<< Well, I would pronounce them both exactly the same way, but then again I´m snobbish ? <<

No, not snobbish----- Estonian. Or a Finn who speaks some dialect which I am not familiar with.

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Hank W.
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Post by Hank W. » Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:54 pm

I think you are the one who speaks some hillbilly Kajjaani dialect with doubling consonants :lol:

The words aren't pronounced any different. That is the whole point of the joke.
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.

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Claudio52
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Post by Claudio52 » Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:03 pm

ok. My exam went good. I'm Suomi3 level and I am supposed to know lot of grammars. But anyway..I hope you still like me if I say that I really hate this kärpänen :))

some easy language game? ;)

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Post by enk » Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:09 pm

Well here's one where the difference in intonation makes all
the difference in what you're saying:

Liimaa pääsi viemäriin.
Liimaa pääsi viemäriin.

-enk

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Hank W.
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Post by Hank W. » Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:12 pm

I wouldn't say its the intonation, rather than the stress on the verb.
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.

kalmisto
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Post by kalmisto » Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:42 pm

>> I think you are the one who speaks some hillbilly Kajjaani dialect with doubling consonants :lol: <<

My way of speaking Finnish comes partly ( not entirely ) from Kuusamo and it was certainly that part that led me astray. :oops: I cover my face in shame ! I speak a mixture of standard Finnish and spoken language and there is certainly something from Kuusamo also in my speech:
"Tulisiko se?" I would say "Tulisikko se?". Kuusamo is not that far from Kajaani. ( I do not say "Kajjaani" ! ). I must have heard the correct pronunciation of words like "lukisiko", "tekisikö","olisiko","tulisiko","menisikö" hundreds of times but I have probably ignored it as Helsinki speak.

Olinpa minä tyhmä ! ( "olinpa" pronounced "olimpa" ! :wink: )
Man was I dumb !

How do you pronounce the word "sanko"? I say "sankko" and my guess is that you do too. Why on earth are "tanko" and "lanko" pronounced exactly as they are written but not "sanko" ?

There is more on the subject here if anybody is interested : http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/kielenopas/6.4.html

We Finns often tell foreigners that Finnish is pronounced as it is written. That is true most of the time but there are many exceptions to the rule.
Last edited by kalmisto on Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Hank W.
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Post by Hank W. » Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:54 pm

Älj huolehi, ee se uo synti, voan suur häppee :lol:

But yes, its a very distinct north-east trait of speech, the doubling consonants. It is not quite as evident as the laplander 'h' that also is from an even more distinct area. And believe me this, "Helsinki speech" has nothing to do with "standard Finnish":lol: Theres a few very distinct patterns here that come into my ear.

Not very many people speak "kirjakieli" even in the radio.
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.

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Hank W.
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Post by Hank W. » Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:57 pm

kalmisto wrote:How do you pronounce the word "sanko"? I say "sankko" and my guess is that you do too.
Just like 'saanko' with a short a. ;)

Because if I would say sankko, then it would be sankko sankon sankolla
ansd not sanko sangon, sangolla with the 'äng'
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.


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