Citizenship residency permit is about to get prolonged to 8 years

[BRIKOUI]

Good. Now extend it to 10 years.

People who live here even 10 years still speak !"#¤% Finnish. You should be near native before they even consider you.

You know that the capacity of learning languages is different from a person to a person. It's not about being smart or skilled. I know skilled engineers who struggle learning more languages.

[DrStrange1990]

My questions are:

- Will this apply only to new arrivals or will it also apply to those of us already living here?

- I have a Type A permit based on “remigration”. My grandfather was born here so I am (as of now) considered a “returnee”. So do the new changes impact people with my rather unique permit? I am not considered a refugee and I have no work or income requirements. I am retired. But now I have no idea where I stand.

The rules for permanent residence permits and citizenship will also apply to you.

I haven't seen anything regarding changing remigration residence permits, and even if there would be changes I would expect that people for whom this is already a valid ground would get a grandfather clause that it stays a valid ground for a residence permit for them.

1. How about people who already have PR. If they loose job and if they can't find it within 3 months, will they also be kicked out?
2. Also what will happen to people who will get eligible for applying for PR and as soon as they apply, this new law will get imposed. Will migri consider their application according to old law or they'll ask these people to apply again after 2 years and take people's appointment money?

[FinlandGirl]

My questions are:

- Will this apply only to new arrivals or will it also apply to those of us already living here?

- I have a Type A permit based on “remigration”. My grandfather was born here so I am (as of now) considered a “returnee”. So do the new changes impact people with my rather unique permit? I am not considered a refugee and I have no work or income requirements. I am retired. But now I have no idea where I stand.

The rules for permanent residence permits and citizenship will also apply to you.

I haven't seen anything regarding changing remigration residence permits, and even if there would be changes I would expect that people for whom this is already a valid ground would get a grandfather clause that it stays a valid ground for a residence permit for them.

1. How about people who already have PR. If they loose job and if they can't find it within 3 months, will they also be kicked out?

No.

2. Also what will happen to people who will get eligible for applying for PR and as soon as they apply, this new law will get imposed. Will migri consider their application according to old law or they'll ask these people to apply again after 2 years and take people's appointment money?

There will be a date when the changes to the law enter in effect, if a person was eligible before this date and applied before this date it is clear that there has to be a transitional provision that such applications will be decided based on the old legislation.

[jimmyguang]

It seems that only the immigrants who can work non-stoppingly are welcome, disregarding the fact that people's lives have ups and downs. Not to mention many professionals such as artists, free-lancers, entrepreneurs, etc. may have very unstable work condition/income. With this new policy, I fear that we will witness larger-scale prejudice against foreign-born residents in work places and society at large. This is sad, esp. since these people are already struggling to be treated with respect and have their voices heard.

According to my Understanding of the new proposals
Acquiring Permanent Residence permit has 3 or 4 new ways
1. Live for 6 years and pass YKI . than you can apply for Pr
2. Complete a degree or have a recognized degree and live for 4 years. Pass YkI. apply for PR
3. Earn 40000 a year, no need for YKI. apply PR after 4 years.

Citizenship
1. Live 8 years. Pass YKI, pass civic test.

LOSS of Residence permit for anyone on work permit A and living without a job for more than 3 months. (toughest law ever in finland)

All of the above in citizenship and PR require tougher rules regarding social and unemployment benefits taken. Character requirements are also been hardened. All of those details need to be checked in detail. (especially the amount a person can remain unemployed and take benefits)

As a verdict, getting a PR and Citizenship is going to be difficult in the future. Retaining an A permit for work is also going to be harder.

When would it become a law , is not known yet. still they were a crucial part of government negotiations . So imo they will be implemented in some or full form.
Terveisin

[FinlandGirl]

It seems that only the immigrants who can work non-stoppingly are welcome,

The point of permitting people to move to Finland on the basis of work is that they contribute their work.

disregarding the fact that people's lives have ups and downs.

The problem is that there are too many rotten apples who came on a residence permit on the basis of work bu where then living 1 or 2 years of a 4 year permit on benefits instead of working.

The reason for permitting work-based immigration is not supporting the downs of non-working people with benefits paid from Finnish taxes.

Not to mention many professionals such as artists, free-lancers, entrepreneurs, etc. may have very unstable work condition/income.

This does not even make sense.

There is nothing forcing such people to register as unemployed, in such cases the annual tax filing would be the only reliable way for checking the financial situation.

[jimmyguang]

It seems that only the immigrants who can work non-stoppingly are welcome,

The point of permitting people to move to Finland on the basis of work is that they contribute their work.

True, but it may very well happen that some immigrants may lose his/her job because of mistreatment at work, sickness or accidents. Losing his/her work permits after three months without job is unreasonable, esp. considering it is difficult for immigrants to find a job in Finland.

disregarding the fact that people's lives have ups and downs.

The problem is that there are too many rotten apples who came on a residence permit on the basis of work bu where then living 1 or 2 years of a 4 year permit on benefits instead of working.

The reason for permitting work-based immigration is not supporting the downs of non-working people with benefits paid from Finnish taxes.

The number of days of unemployment benefits is accrued based on how many years one person has been working in Finland (also paying taxes). So the number of days which one person is eligible to get the unemployment benefits should be the same for all tax payers. It is not reasonable to kick an unemployed immigrant out when he/she is still eligible for unemployment benefits.

Not to mention many professionals such as artists, free-lancers, entrepreneurs, etc. may have very unstable work condition/income.

This does not even make sense.

There is nothing forcing such people to register as unemployed, in such cases the annual tax filing would be the only reliable way for checking the financial situation.

This makes perfect sense. Such professions such as artists, entrepreneurs may very often have unstable income or lower income than the 1600 euro threshold. For example, a shop owner may have bad business. Will they be kicked out of the country in this case?

So in summary, it is reasonable to ask all immigrants to contribute to the society. But it is not reasonable to give such little tolerance/consideration to bad business/not be able to find a job/other unfortunate accidents such as sickness. How much money one person earns is not the only criteria to evaluate his/her contribution to the society.

[FinlandGirl]

It seems that only the immigrants who can work non-stoppingly are welcome,

The point of permitting people to move to Finland on the basis of work is that they contribute their work.

True, but it may very well happen that some immigrants may lose his/her job because of mistreatment at work, sickness or accidents. Losing his/her work permits after three months without job is unreasonable, esp. considering it is difficult for immigrants to find a job in Finland.

How did they get their first job?
This is the hard part, if you have skills that are desirable in the Finnish job market then finding future jobs will be much easier.

Not to mention many professionals such as artists, free-lancers, entrepreneurs, etc. may have very unstable work condition/income.

This does not even make sense.

There is nothing forcing such people to register as unemployed, in such cases the annual tax filing would be the only reliable way for checking the financial situation.

This makes perfect sense. Such professions such as artists, entrepreneurs may very often have unstable income or lower income than the 1600 euro threshold. For example, a shop owner may have bad business. Will they be kicked out of the country in this case?

It is unlikely that Migri would start looking much into businesses for cancelling residence permits, that would be much and complicated work (they are also not doing the assessment for the first residence permit themselves).

For residence permit extensions it has always been required to prove that the business is profitable enough for your living, nothing changes there.

The number of days of unemployment benefits is accrued based on how many years one person has been working in Finland (also paying taxes).

That's fake news, there is no accruing of days for unemployment benefits.

[betelgeuse]

The number of days of unemployment benefits is accrued based on how many years one person has been working in Finland (also paying taxes). So the number of days which one person is eligible to get the unemployment benefits should be the same for all tax payers. It is not reasonable to kick an unemployed immigrant out when he/she is still eligible for unemployment benefits.

That’s not how the unemployment system works. The number of days is unlimited (or practically until retirement starts).

[Rankin]

These rules are for the benefit of Finland, in a Europe that is increasingly dangerous, this is what should be happening, and remember it is what people voted for. That's how democracy works. I say all this despite the fact that it's going to screw my plans up.

I also don't know anywhere in EU that you can keep a work permit despite being unemployed, on the Blue Card the threshold was always 3 months, and that's across the whole EU.

[Mamu]

If they want to cancel after three months, then the immigrant worker should also not be paying for the society and should be thus exempt from due taxes.

In simple words, if the foreign worker is not entitled to the same level of social services as a native or a citizen, why should they pay for the services?

A country with ageing population but have decided to padlock their entry gate. Well, just explicitly tell the world you don't want foreigners or immigrants to live in your country, instead of covertly using this backdoor approach.

[FinlandGirl]

If they want to cancel after three months, then the immigrant worker should also not be paying for the society and should be thus exempt from due taxes.

In simple words, if the foreign worker is not entitled to the same level of social services as a native or a citizen, why should they pay for the services?

The foreign worker does not have to pay for this service, joining an unemployment funds is voluntary.

[betelgeuse]

If they want to cancel after three months, then the immigrant worker should also not be paying for the society and should be thus exempt from due taxes.

In simple words, if the foreign worker is not entitled to the same level of social services as a native or a citizen, why should they pay for the services?

The foreign worker does not have to pay for this service, joining an unemployment funds is voluntary.

Everyone has to pay unemployment insurance contributions. The fund membership fees are only a tiny fraction of the funding.

[browndude]

These rules are for the benefit of Finland, in a Europe that is increasingly dangerous, this is what should be happening, and remember it is what people voted for. That's how democracy works. I say all this despite the fact that it's going to screw my plans up.

I also don't know anywhere in EU that you can keep a work permit despite being unemployed, on the Blue Card the threshold was always 3 months, and that's across the whole EU.

No arguments about the need for reform. The current system needs a rethink for sure to make it able to handle the changes in the economic and security realities of the moment. The 3 months rule may be applied in other places but it is not set in stone and should perhaps be extended in consideration of the unique factors of the Finnish labour market. After all, if the idea is to get huippuosaajat to stay, they need to make it a bit of a balancing act in terms of making this place appealing while at the same time preventing misuse of the system.

[FinlandGirl]

These rules are for the benefit of Finland, in a Europe that is increasingly dangerous, this is what should be happening, and remember it is what people voted for. That's how democracy works. I say all this despite the fact that it's going to screw my plans up.

I also don't know anywhere in EU that you can keep a work permit despite being unemployed, on the Blue Card the threshold was always 3 months, and that's across the whole EU.

No arguments about the need for reform. The current system needs a rethink for sure to make it able to handle the changes in the economic and security realities of the moment. The 3 months rule may be applied in other places but it is not set in stone and should perhaps be extended in consideration of the unique factors of the Finnish labour market. After all, if the idea is to get huippuosaajat to stay, they need to make it a bit of a balancing act in terms of making this place appealing while at the same time preventing misuse of the system.

Unemployed for over 3 months and huippuosaajat should usually be mutually exclusive.

Making Finland less appealing for the people who have so much reason to be worried about being unemployed for over 3 months that it affects their decision shouldn't affect the decisions of high-skilled people with a skillset in demand who are willing to work.

[browndude]

These rules are for the benefit of Finland, in a Europe that is increasingly dangerous, this is what should be happening, and remember it is what people voted for. That's how democracy works. I say all this despite the fact that it's going to screw my plans up.

I also don't know anywhere in EU that you can keep a work permit despite being unemployed, on the Blue Card the threshold was always 3 months, and that's across the whole EU.

No arguments about the need for reform. The current system needs a rethink for sure to make it able to handle the changes in the economic and security realities of the moment. The 3 months rule may be applied in other places but it is not set in stone and should perhaps be extended in consideration of the unique factors of the Finnish labour market. After all, if the idea is to get huippuosaajat to stay, they need to make it a bit of a balancing act in terms of making this place appealing while at the same time preventing misuse of the system.

Unemployed for over 3 months and huippuosaajat should usually be mutually exclusive.

Making Finland less appealing for the people who have so much reason to be worried about being unemployed for over 3 months that it affects their decision shouldn't affect the decisions of high-skilled people with a skillset in demand who are willing to work.

Under the current economic conditions, with mass layoffs happening left and right, even some huippuosaajat are having trouble finding work even in the US where the job market is orders of magnitude bigger. In Finland's case, we are hardly the most appealing destination for huippuosaajat in the first place and it's appeal has been going down of late in any case-beggars can't be choosers. Numerous Finnish CEOs and business leaders are also not in favour of this 3 month time-line. Obviously we cannot have an endless waiting period, perhaps though something a bit longer than 3 months.