Your biggest struggles after moving to Finland?

[fromtheblock]

Hi all,

I would be curious to hear what your biggest pain points or struggles have been after you moved to Finland (I mean, related to the move and settling into the country)? For instance finding suitable housing, forming social networks, language etc.

[MandieLynn]

Finding a job. The language can be difficult but its something you can learn if you really want to.

[Rankin]

Finding happiness in work environment (I miss how easy it was to make friends in Poland) and adapting to the unfriendliness of kids (for my daughter). From my perspective if your child is still in the development stage, being in Finland is a detriment to their development as a well-rounded person. Being completely honest, that was the determining factor that my family used to decide that we wouldn't stay here.

[riku2]

the absolute chaos of road signs and road markings. A sign showing speed limit of 30 but 40 is painted on the road surface. Give way sign for me approaching a junction but give way lines painted across the road which supposedly has right of way (signs were changed but they forgot to update the road markings). Stop lines painted across a road for traffic lights which were outside a fire station that was demolished 10 years ago and traffic lights long removed. Looking for the back of give way signs to see if the junction is "give way to the right" or not. Generally having drivers who have right of way stop and drivers who do not have right of way drive on regardless.
Encountering many drivers on roundabouts who drive on without realizing they have to give way to vehicles already on the roundabout, or being behind a driver on the roundabout who stops to let somebody join!!
T junction rebuilt with bricks in a round circle in the middle which make it look like a roundabout but the signs show that it's actually a T junction, not a roundabout (road building department at the council not talking to the road sign department).
Cycling in the countryside when almost all car drivers drive down the middle of the road (sometimes 100% on the wrong side around bends),cycling and being overtaken by vehicles on bends and places with no visibility (this is especially breathtaking when a large truck does this and forces oncoming traffic to drive into the grass on the side of the road - a regular occurrence). Cycling with cars coming towards me and oncoming drivers decide to overtake and I have two cars side by side coming towards me.

[Schmania]

Social isolation

(Also the failing healthcare system and quite limited working perspectives, but nothing is as psychologically hard as culturally grounded social isolation)

[Y77]

The worst is the road traffic situation: cars don't stop on pedestrian crossing, people talk on the phone while driving, if you drive within the speed limit cars overtake you all the time or they tailgate you to make you go faster. And the silly rule that you must give way to cars coming from the right even if you don't have a "give way "sign. This probably comes from the fact that this is a very individualistic and selfish society that to some extent rewards bad behaviour. The social isolation is actually a very good thing for me, I don't like interacting with people and hate small talk.

[FinnGuyHelsinki]

And the silly rule that you must give way to cars coming from the right even if you don't have a "give way "sign.

What's silly about it? It's the default rule (when not overriden by signs) which applies also, e.g., on parking lots.

[SecretCode]

riku2, Y77 - what regions do you guys live in that you find road traffic and road signing so bad? And what are you comparing it to?

I'm in the Lohja area, which is not the most wonderful area in Finland, but drivers stop at pedestrian crossings whether I'm on my own, or with dogs. And sometimes when I'm not even ready to cross! Once in the past few months a driver didn't stop when I thought they should. Road marking are all clear and road signs are all there (one of the parking signs near where I live is almost rusted out, admittedly). When I'm on my bike, drivers a well-mannered, and of course there are lots of cycle paths.

Compared to London, the driver - and cyclist and pedestrian - behaviour is an order of magnitude better. Road signage and markings are at least as good.

[Y77]

riku2, Y77 - what regions do you guys live in that you find road traffic and road signing so bad? And what are you comparing it to?

I'm in the Lohja area, which is not the most wonderful area in Finland, but drivers stop at pedestrian crossings whether I'm on my own, or with dogs. And sometimes when I'm not even ready to cross! Once in the past few months a driver didn't stop when I thought they should. Road marking are all clear and road signs are all there (one of the parking signs near where I live is almost rusted out, admittedly). When I'm on my bike, drivers a well-mannered, and of course there are lots of cycle paths.

Compared to London, the driver - and cyclist and pedestrian - behaviour is an order of magnitude better. Road signage and markings are at least as good.

Jakobstadt

[Y77]

And the silly rule that you must give way to cars coming from the right even if you don't have a "give way "sign.

What's silly about it? It's the default rule (when not overriden by signs) which applies also, e.g., on parking lots.

it is silly and also dangerous because in all the country of the world except finland and possibly sweden, when you are driving on a straight road you only give way to the right if there is a sign that tells you to do that, which makes perfectly sense. In finland you have to slow down every time because the car coming from the right might have or might have not a give way sign, but you don't know it until it's too late and you have already slowed down and wasted petrol and time.

[FinnGuyHelsinki]

And the silly rule that you must give way to cars coming from the right even if you don't have a "give way "sign.

What's silly about it? It's the default rule (when not overriden by signs) which applies also, e.g., on parking lots.

it is silly and also dangerous because in all the country of the world except finland and possibly sweden, when you are driving on a straight road you only give way to the right if there is a sign that tells you to do that, which makes perfectly sense. In finland you have to slow down every time because the car coming from the right might have or might have not a give way sign, but you don't know it until it's too late and you have already slowed down and wasted petrol and time.

There is a traffic sign also for right of way: (B1) https://liikennemerkkeja.fi/liikennemer ... amismerkit

There are also situations, for example traffic lights not working in an intersection, where there has to be some rule to fall back on.

[riku2]

And the silly rule that you must give way to cars coming from the right even if you don't have a "give way "sign.

What's silly about it? It's the default rule (when not overriden by signs) which applies also, e.g., on parking lots.

It is silly because in Finland (unlike in Holland) the drivers on the main road do not know if they have to give way to the right unless they look for THE BACK OF A GIVEWAY SIGN. Looking for the BACK of a road sign. This is absolute madness and anyone who thinks that safe road design can involve looking for the BACK of a sign needs some help. What about the give way signs placed too far back? at an angle that hides them? hidden by bushes?

Also you must evaluate roads on the right to see if they are a public road, because driveways and farm roads do not come under the "give way to the right" rule anyway. So now you are not only looking for the back of a road sign but also any street name signs to evaluate the public/private ownership of the road (all the time keeping an eye on other traffic, pedestrians, cyclists etc).

Here's a great junction - give way to the right priority and then a give way sign within 10m of each other. So two priority concepts on the same road just meters apart from each other. https://goo.gl/maps/JmfiYhwrzVdQsvqg8

This dog of a junction which looks like a roundabout but actually is not, with a mixture of give way signs and give way to the right https://goo.gl/maps/hUDwH2fXPAFJz26p8 You could spend a few minutes trying to work out what is really going on here .. but drivers are supposed to evaluate the priority in under a second. To further criticize this junction: the footpath changes role from pedestrian to pedestrian+cycles with a sign that is PARALLEL to the cyclepath so cyclists would not see it unless they look to the right.

Basically these roads work because there is very little traffic and most of the drivers are local and have learned the junction design over a period of time.

[FinnGuyHelsinki]

And the silly rule that you must give way to cars coming from the right even if you don't have a "give way "sign.

What's silly about it? It's the default rule (when not overriden by signs) which applies also, e.g., on parking lots.

It is silly because in Finland (unlike in Holland) the drivers on the main road do not know if they have to give way to the right unless they look for THE BACK OF A GIVEWAY SIGN. Looking for the BACK of a road sign. This is absolute madness and anyone who thinks that safe road design can involve looking for the BACK of a sign needs some help. What about the give way signs placed too far back? at an angle that hides them? hidden by bushes?

Also you must evaluate roads on the right to see if they are a public road, because driveways and farm roads do not come under the "give way to the right" rule anyway. So now you are not only looking for the back of a road sign but also any street name signs to evaluate the public/private ownership of the road (all the time keeping an eye on other traffic, pedestrians, cyclists etc).

Here's a great junction - give way to the right priority and then a give way sign within 10m of each other. So two priority concepts on the same road just meters apart from each other. https://goo.gl/maps/JmfiYhwrzVdQsvqg8

This dog of a junction which looks like a roundabout but actually is not, with a mixture of give way signs and give way to the right https://goo.gl/maps/hUDwH2fXPAFJz26p8 You could spend a few minutes trying to work out what is really going on here .. but drivers are supposed to evaluate the priority in under a second. To further criticize this junction: the footpath changes role from pedestrian to pedestrian+cycles with a sign that is PARALLEL to the cyclepath so cyclists would not see it unless they look to the right.

Basically these roads work because there is very little traffic and most of the drivers are local and have learned the junction design over a period of time.

Well, surely there are places, roads, streets - all around the world - the navigation in which is less than clear. The rule about yielding to traffic coming from one's right side (by default, if not directed otherwise by traffic signs or lights) in Finland should be clear enough. As a local, I'm used to it, sure, but if someone considers that one of their biggest struggles of living in Finland,... they're not actually struggling.

[browndude]

the absolute chaos of road signs and road markings. A sign showing speed limit of 30 but 40 is painted on the road surface. Give way sign for me approaching a junction but give way lines painted across the road which supposedly has right of way (signs were changed but they forgot to update the road markings). Stop lines painted across a road for traffic lights which were outside a fire station that was demolished 10 years ago and traffic lights long removed. Looking for the back of give way signs to see if the junction is "give way to the right" or not. Generally having drivers who have right of way stop and drivers who do not have right of way drive on regardless.
Encountering many drivers on roundabouts who drive on without realizing they have to give way to vehicles already on the roundabout, or being behind a driver on the roundabout who stops to let somebody join!!
T junction rebuilt with bricks in a round circle in the middle which make it look like a roundabout but the signs show that it's actually a T junction, not a roundabout (road building department at the council not talking to the road sign department).
Cycling in the countryside when almost all car drivers drive down the middle of the road (sometimes 100% on the wrong side around bends),cycling and being overtaken by vehicles on bends and places with no visibility (this is especially breathtaking when a large truck does this and forces oncoming traffic to drive into the grass on the side of the road - a regular occurrence). Cycling with cars coming towards me and oncoming drivers decide to overtake and I have two cars side by side coming towards me.

You must either live in a different Finland than I do or be a terrible driver cos. Finland is one of the easiest countries to drive a car in discpline wise.

[riku2]

You must either live in a different Finland than I do or be a terrible driver cos. Finland is one of the easiest countries to drive a car in discpline wise.

Have a look at the accident rate figures https://transport.ec.europa.eu/news-eve ... 2-03-28_en
Finland has about 2x the deaths per million inhabitants compared to Denmark, Sweden or Norway.
Out of the four Nordic countries Norway has the most mountains and wettest weather, but lowest death rate (16 per million) compared to Finland (40 per million).
Winding mountain roads and bad weather -> you put some effort into good road design.
Empty flattish roads -> anything goes. Drivers will sort things out for themselves if they encounter another vehicle.

Norway even has such cutting edge innovations as names on road signs in upper/lower case instead of UPPER CASE ONLY (Finland) because research was done about 80 years ago showing that drivers read names in mixed case quicker than in upper case only. This news yet to arrive in Finland.