Housing benefits abolishment discourages working.

[Stephan1992]

Hi Everyone,

I am new here so lets introduce myself for you all before I continue with the reason for registering here at all:

Due to privacy concerns, I have slightly modified details in below story, but the main idea should be obvious and clear, so forgive me already, if in future posts the information does not add up (discrepancies).

I am a EU citizen living in Finland for 9 years now.
I came to Finland because I got married with a beautiful Finnish women and a little later I got lots of kids with my Finnish wife (4) ….but then disaster happened, my wife was run over at a zebra crossing by a Finnish drunk driver at MID-DAY for crying out loud….13:00 !!!!!!. She did not survive..

This was not the end of it, I lost my job a few weeks after due to the fixed term contract not being renewed. (Engineer).
My %#%%#¤& employer was afraid I would not be able to handle the raising of 4 young kids alone, process the sudden death of my wife and... keep focused on my work.
Basically what he meant was that I would not be able to make 20 hours a week overtime anymore due to picking up the kids from daycare and school and cooking them dinner.

It proved to be almost impossible to get a new job as an engineer, while not being proficient in Finnish and having a foreign last name, (did not need Finnish in my previous job, contact was with foreign clients anyway).
That (first) job I only got that because the manager of the department was a friend of my wife, but it seems when your Finnish wife dies, you are just another foreigner and expendable.
It is also amazing how little of our family and friends still keep in touch with you once the “Finnish” connection from your family is gone…

After the death of my wife, only 1 person visited me at our place only one time… no one else bothered… So much for building a social network with Finns…. Untrustworthy undependable …..(and here some cursing words to describe my current discontent with Finns around me)...

Now I got myself a job as a parcel delivery guy with flexible hours instead at a very low salary, which is just enough to get by, no need for Finnish other than “ole hyvää” and “heipa”

But now…… Mr Orpo has some plans that will further hurt my life considerably.

I live in an old housing company house (osakeasunto) with a maintenance fee of 852€ a month and I still have a mortgage to pay. My house will get 30 percent less valuable only already due to this change in benefits and my house being no longer eligible for housing benefits. Combine this with the high interest rates… no-one will want to buy it anyway.

It seems that Mr Orpo did not do his math when he made his plans because his plan will mean I will get 700€ of housing benefits less in September 2024 AND it will be impossible for me to sell and get a single room apartment with 4 children (no money for more) and still need to pay the mortgage.

This also means I will need to apply for and be eligible for Toimeentulotuki… while I work 40 hours a week.
Working low wage jobs is really discouraged this way...(even-though I enjoyed doing it).

Therefore I have decided that there is no point in being promoted to be a slave of Orpo and his foreigner haters and I will quit my job to spend all the time with my kids instead, they suffered greatly in the past 2 years, time to make up for that and do some things together instead of seeing them only half an hour in morning and 1 hour in evening.

So I would say to all Finnish society… I worked my ass off in the past 9 years, paid a lot of taxes and this is my reward… you can all go to….. a place where the sun don’t shine….. (ah Lapland in winter...although I meant something else ). I quit (or make sure to get fired) and will do only the bare minimum to get benefits….

[Rankin]

I'm really sorry to hear about your wife, you losing your job and sympathise with your plight with the housing situation.
Keep strong, your kids need you more than ever.

[astrom]

I am deeply sorry for you and your kids going thru hell with these terrible circumstances that you describe. This is a clear situation where social benefits should be fully used to support your family while facing so many struggles. Wish you the best and please focus on your kids. Us, a little luckier, can keep working and spining the wheel on your behalf.

[SecretCode]

I suspect that Mr Orpo and his accomplices can do the maths, and are only pretending that reducing benefits in any work encourages work. Their primary goals seem to be to channel money to rich people and to cause suffering for anyone not like them.

[FinlandGirl]

I am a EU citizen living in Finland for 9 years now.

It proved to be almost impossible to get a new job as an engineer, while not being proficient in Finnish and having a foreign last name,

Now I got myself a job as a parcel delivery guy with flexible hours instead at a very low salary,

Don't blame your last name, not being able to work in Finnish after 9 years in Finland is your problem.

I live in an old housing company house (osakeasunto) with a maintenance fee of 852€ a month and I still have a mortgage to pay. My house will get 30 percent less valuable only already due to this change in benefits and my house being no longer eligible for housing benefits. Combine this with the high interest rates… no-one will want to buy it anyway.

Why do you assume noone would be willing to buy your house?
Even if the price is lower, it will likely at least be enough to cover the remaining mortgage.

It seems that Mr Orpo did not do his math when he made his plans because his plan will mean I will get 700€ of housing benefits less in September 2024 AND it will be impossible for me to sell and get a single room apartment with 4 children (no money for more) and still need to pay the mortgage.

You will have to sell to house when receiving social assistance, and after selling your house there will be no mortgage left to pay.

Therefore I have decided that there is no point in being promoted to be a slave of Orpo and his foreigner haters and I will quit my job to spend all the time with my kids instead,

As jobseeker you will be a slave of TE office, obeying whatever you are ordered to do.

Our government plans to make it easier for Kela to reduce the social assistance by up to 40%, and it is planned to also add an option to refuse social assistance if the client has refused an offered job, training, service or obligation.

An obligation to work in tasks assigned by a public organisation like in Denmark is planned for people living from social assistance.

I am a EU citizen living in Finland for 9 years now.
I came to Finland because I got married with a beautiful Finnish women and a little later I got lots of kids with my Finnish wife (4) ….but then disaster happened, my wife was run over at a zebra crossing by a Finnish drunk driver at MID-DAY for crying out loud….13:00 !!!!!!. She did not survive..

This was not the end of it, I lost my job a few weeks after due to the fixed term contract not being renewed. (Engineer).

It is also amazing how little of our family and friends still keep in touch with you once the “Finnish” connection from your family is gone…

After the death of my wife, only 1 person visited me at our place only one time… no one else bothered… So much for building a social network with Finns…. Untrustworthy undependable …..(and here some cursing words to describe my current discontent with Finns around me)...

So I would say to all Finnish society… I worked my ass off in the past 9 years, paid a lot of taxes and this is my reward… you can all go to….. a place where the sun don’t shine….. (ah Lapland in winter...although I meant something else ).

Why aren't you moving back to your home country where your friends and family live and where you would get a job in your profession again?

You will anyway have to move when you'll have to sell your house, why don't you use that opportunity to move to a place where you will be happy?

[betelgeuse]

It seems that Mr Orpo did not do his math when he made his plans because his plan will mean I will get 700€ of housing benefits less in September 2024 AND it will be impossible for me to sell and get a single room apartment with 4 children (no money for more) and still need to pay the mortgage.

You will have to sell to house when receiving social assistance, and after selling your house there will be no mortgage left to pay.

Income support (toimentulotuki) has a houses as protected assets that do not need to be sold.

[Stephan1992]

It seems that Mr Orpo did not do his math when he made his plans because his plan will mean I will get 700€ of housing benefits less in September 2024 AND it will be impossible for me to sell and get a single room apartment with 4 children (no money for more) and still need to pay the mortgage.

You will have to sell to house when receiving social assistance, and after selling your house there will be no mortgage left to pay.

Income support (toimentulotuki) has a houses as protected assets that do not need to be sold.

Thanks betelgeuse for the info, I was aware of that but the inability to pay the "vastike" will cause me to be forced to sell and move to housing that has right to asumistuki.

Thanks to the others for their comforting words

Except the stupid shortsighted idiotic and rude dumb reaction without any empathy from FinlandGirl, but we all know who she is, nuf said.

Don't blame your last name, not being able to work in Finnish after 9 years in Finland is your problem.

Last name is a serious factor when applying for a job, so many investigations, for example by Turku University and Yle MOT, have been made about this and proof the existence of this FACT. So stop bullsh....ing everyone here and act as if we foreigners are stupid, we are not! You just do not want to admit this hiatus in your reasoning and try to save face of Finnish society, you can't!!

Why do you assume noone would be willing to buy your house?
Even if the price is lower, it will likely at least be enough to cover the remaining mortgage.

The mortgage will not be paid off when the house is sold for the current price, and the price is still falling.. no further comment needed, why do you act as if I am lying here... you make all sound so simple only to create an image of that I am complaining for no reason....I don't... I am not stupid and I already checked all this, why do you think I got so angry and registered specially here to vent my discontent... again I am not stupid, are you?? with these kind of remarks you sound like it..

As jobseeker you will be a slave of TE office, obeying whatever you are ordered to do.

As a job seeker I am no slave from TE.office, they never ever have offered me anything and never ever forced me to accept anything, I did all on my own, they were a total failure in getting me a new job, called and talked a lot with them, they even prevent me from getting a course to enhance my Finnish language skills specific for my job, for the reason my language is not enough ....DUH....so they are still worthless.. (while I am working far far below my expertise, currently as a delivery guy, instead of a highly skilled engineer).

Why aren't you moving back to your home country where your friends and family live and where you would get a job in your profession again?

You have no empathy for kids I see...or just no empathy at all..(seeing your other posts) we have a name for that in my language, but it is the same in English... you guess what it is...
How good of a father would I be to rip my kids away from their home country = Finland with their home language = Finnish (they have only Finnish citizenship) from their home school and friends, to another country from which they do not master the native language enough and will be running behind all others because of their backlog in language, causing them to end up in the lower end of the educational ladder..just after they lost their mom,....really... even when Perheneuvola advises against moving at all (not selling the house).....you say I should move back to the country I came from... only for me to get a job... that is ridiculous... that is giving the bully it's way.... That is exactly what those foreigner haters (bullies) want..like you aparently.....I will not grant them (you) that satisfaction, no instead I will milk the social system until the last tax euro I paid...
I came from poverty so I know how to live in poverty, it is no fun but I can do it and at the same time spend a lot of time with my kids instead of slaving around and being away from home and never seeing my kids anymore... they need me more than ever... iso keski sormi to the rest.
I guess you have no kids or you are just a terrible parent without empathy, hating foreigners... that has come clear here on this forum anyway..
SO maybe spend your efforts elsewhere would be better for everyone... just saying..

[FinlandGirl]

How good of a father would I be to rip my kids away from their home country = Finland with their home language = Finnish (they have only Finnish citizenship) from their home school and friends, to another country from which they do not master the native language enough and will be running behind all others because of their backlog in language,

At age 5 children are learning foreign languages like a sponge, a year in kindergarten and they are fluent like a native.

causing them to end up in the lower end of the educational ladder..just after they lost their mom,....really... even when Perheneuvola advises against moving at all (not selling the house).....you say I should move back to the country I came from... only for me to get a job... that is ridiculous... that is giving the bully it's way.... That is exactly what those foreigner haters (bullies) want..like you aparently.....I will not grant them (you) that satisfaction, no instead I will milk the social system until the last tax euro I paid...
I came from poverty so I know how to live in poverty, it is no fun but I can do it

How good is it for a child to live in poverty in a country the parent hates?

[FinlandGirl]

It seems that Mr Orpo did not do his math when he made his plans because his plan will mean I will get 700€ of housing benefits less in September 2024 AND it will be impossible for me to sell and get a single room apartment with 4 children (no money for more) and still need to pay the mortgage.

You will have to sell to house when receiving social assistance, and after selling your house there will be no mortgage left to pay.

Income support (toimentulotuki) has a houses as protected assets that do not need to be sold.

At present, people who have fixed assets are also entitled to receive social assistance. The Government will examine how assets could be taken into account more extensively as income for social assistance claimants.

[betelgeuse]

Income support (toimentulotuki) has a houses as protected assets that do not need to be sold.

Thanks betelgeuse for the info, I was aware of that but the inability to pay the "vastike" will cause me to be forced to sell and move to housing that has right to asumistuki.

You seem to be already aware of it but asumistuki can also be paid when owning a place (though changes are planned). Kela has reasonable benefit simulators (in Finnish and Swedish). Have you used those for your situation? Presumably you will also find out by making an application to income support on how the cash flows end up.

[astrom]

You will have to sell to house when receiving social assistance, and after selling your house there will be no mortgage left to pay.

Income support (toimentulotuki) has a houses as protected assets that do not need to be sold.

Thanks betelgeuse for the info, I was aware of that but the inability to pay the "vastike" will cause me to be forced to sell and move to housing that has right to asumistuki.

Thanks to the others for their comforting words

Except the stupid shortsighted idiotic and rude dumb reaction without any empathy from FinlandGirl, but we all know who she is, nuf said.

Don't blame your last name, not being able to work in Finnish after 9 years in Finland is your problem.

Last name is a serious factor when applying for a job, so many investigations, for example by Turku University and Yle MOT, have been made about this and proof the existence of this FACT. So stop bullsh....ing everyone here and act as if we foreigners are stupid, we are not! You just do not want to admit this hiatus in your reasoning and try to save face of Finnish society, you can't!!

Why do you assume noone would be willing to buy your house?
Even if the price is lower, it will likely at least be enough to cover the remaining mortgage.

The mortgage will not be paid off when the house is sold for the current price, and the price is still falling.. no further comment needed, why do you act as if I am lying here... you make all sound so simple only to create an image of that I am complaining for no reason....I don't... I am not stupid and I already checked all this, why do you think I got so angry and registered specially here to vent my discontent... again I am not stupid, are you?? with these kind of remarks you sound like it..

As jobseeker you will be a slave of TE office, obeying whatever you are ordered to do.

As a job seeker I am no slave from TE.office, they never ever have offered me anything and never ever forced me to accept anything, I did all on my own, they were a total failure in getting me a new job, called and talked a lot with them, they even prevent me from getting a course to enhance my Finnish language skills specific for my job, for the reason my language is not enough ....DUH....so they are still worthless.. (while I am working far far below my expertise, currently as a delivery guy, instead of a highly skilled engineer).

Why aren't you moving back to your home country where your friends and family live and where you would get a job in your profession again?

You have no empathy for kids I see...or just no empathy at all..(seeing your other posts) we have a name for that in my language, but it is the same in English... you guess what it is...
How good of a father would I be to rip my kids away from their home country = Finland with their home language = Finnish (they have only Finnish citizenship) from their home school and friends, to another country from which they do not master the native language enough and will be running behind all others because of their backlog in language, causing them to end up in the lower end of the educational ladder..just after they lost their mom,....really... even when Perheneuvola advises against moving at all (not selling the house).....you say I should move back to the country I came from... only for me to get a job... that is ridiculous... that is giving the bully it's way.... That is exactly what those foreigner haters (bullies) want..like you aparently.....I will not grant them (you) that satisfaction, no instead I will milk the social system until the last tax euro I paid...
I came from poverty so I know how to live in poverty, it is no fun but I can do it and at the same time spend a lot of time with my kids instead of slaving around and being away from home and never seeing my kids anymore... they need me more than ever... iso keski sormi to the rest.
I guess you have no kids or you are just a terrible parent without empathy, hating foreigners... that has come clear here on this forum anyway..
SO maybe spend your efforts elsewhere would be better for everyone... just saying..

Agreed with you in every single word. Sometimes I just wonder if couple of users commenting on immigration related topics here are just the average status-anxious people that find immigration the bogeyman of their lifestyle. It is difficult to comprehend why a person experiencing the struggles of immigration, would be so against it. For now, I just think that we have here a couple of angry- hater supporters of a well-known government's party that are here hiding in an English speaking forum intended to discuss topics of the international community of people living in Finland.

[Y77]

Your post just confirm what I have always known: the most dangerous place in finland is not in the woods, where bears are, or the eastern border: it's the zebra Streifen and drunk drivers that text and talk on the phone.

Question: didn't you get any money from the insurance company of the guy that killed her? Or didn't you have any personal insurance? For example if my wife gets run over by a car I get 41k, as long as the accident takes place at least 50km from our home(travel insurance, annual).

[Stephan1992]

At age 5 children are learning foreign languages like a sponge, a year in kindergarten and they are fluent like a native.

You think all my 4 kids are 5?? This shows how intelligent you are, you make an assumption and on the basis of that assumption you reply...
Assumptions are the mother of all f**k-ups

How good is it for a child to live in poverty in a country the parent hates?

I guess you have to ask those hundreds of thousands of Finns in the same situation, and while you are at it, you might want to ask all those extra hundred thousands of people added to this amount when the government plans will go in effect.

Why would you ask me? I am just a foreigner with native Finnish kids, this is not about me specifically, it is about all residents in Finland in a similar situation with their Housing..
Why would you suggest poor Finns to move to another country??


Rephrased:
It is astonishing but also very clarifying your psyche, to see how you beat around the bush when it concerns the effect of the government plans, basically humiliating yourself / making an #ss of yourself and then continue about something a lot of Finns experience themselves, and they cannot go to "their home country" because are already there and their home country fails them.

The issue I started my post with was not about me, but about the government program's effect on low income earners with an "osakeasunto" with high maintenance costs.
You totally went past that issue and instead focus on my personal situation, which is, as I told in the original post, slightly modified in the details for privacy reasons, so you are so off here... even with the given details you are already off...
My original post is not specific for me alone, it is a general concern for a lot of FINNISH people in Finland.

I do not wish to continue this conversation with you, because you lack the capability to comprehend the real issue here, it is like talking to a child of 3 or a concrete wall for crying out loud, so please excuse me for not replying on any future post filled with nonsense and wrong assumptions, drenched in a sauce of foreigner hate, that blinds you from seeing the real issues at hand.

In my next post I will reply to others..

[Stephan1992]

Income support (toimentulotuki) has a houses as protected assets that do not need to be sold.

Thanks betelgeuse for the info, I was aware of that but the inability to pay the "vastike" will cause me to be forced to sell and move to housing that has right to asumistuki.

You seem to be already aware of it but asumistuki can also be paid when owning a place (though changes are planned). Kela has reasonable benefit simulators (in Finnish and Swedish). Have you used those for your situation? Presumably you will also find out by making an application to income support on how the cash flows end up.

Thanks you again @betelgeuse.

To clarify, yes I do now receive little less than 700€ a month housing benefits (asumistuki) for the maintenance costs (vastike) of the appartment (osakeasunto).
That was what this issue was about, it will disappear with the new changes by the government, resulting in financial problems because my salary will not be enough to reach the minimum level as defined for the right for basic income support (toimeentulotuki).
I calculated I will receive several hundreds of euros basic income support when the housing benefits disappear.

If I would not be working (regardless on how this will happen) I would actually have more disposable income during the month than with the salary I receive now as a "kuljetus" because I would not need to pay for the gasoline/tires/maintenance of the car used to get to my workplace office. Going by public transport will be no option due to incompatible time tables and travel time, in relation to the flexibility I need for picking up my kids from daycare / school and sadly the basic income support needs receipt of the public transport month card, to be able to refund a part of that. They will not refund the use of my own (small) car.

I hope this info will help others as well..
For me the conclusion is that with the current proposed changes, I and especially my kids would be better off if I am NOT working, instead of having my current low wage job.

Reason: wages are too low and government plans are not calculated through for (unwanted) side effects.

[betelgeuse]

I hope this info will help others as well..
For me the conclusion is that with the current proposed changes, I and especially my kids would be better off if I am NOT working, instead of having my current low wage job.

Reason: wages are too low and government plans are not calculated through for (unwanted) side effects.

That is quite often the case with basic income support but the government does not seem willing to listen.