Yes but no. Cars are seen as "luxury objects". Finnish-made cars weren't any less-taxed nor cheaper when there was an industry (and many tries in the 1960's). So it wasn't protectionism as there wasn't a local competing industry.
Different countries taxed the weirdest stuff as "luxury items"... Golf Clubs in South Africa was one interesting item that popped up in the IATA class in the 90's...
Very expensive cars,what do you think?
When I first got to Finland, I was also shocked at the price of cars here. My thoughts on the matter have since boiled down to something like the following:
- government does not have a great deal of income, since there are not so many taxpayers; and thus tries very hard to tax as many things as possibe. Personally I think this will improve when all the whinging freeloading students and the 50% of unemployed immigrants piss off out of the country
- there is no protectionism involved since Finland does not have its own indiginous auto industry; unless you count assembling Boxsters on the west coast; so state can impose taxes on all cars regardless.
- the road system needs to be maintained. Have you ever been outside Kehä III? There are a lot of roads in fact serving just few small communities that still need upkeep. There are virtually no motorways, at least, compared to rest of Europe. I imagine (though don't know) that some of the vehice tax money goes towards this.
- the high price of cars keeps the roads relatively clear - I have hardly ever suffered any traffic jams in Finland. I would say this is a major benefit to those who can afford cars in the first place
- Public transport in general is excellent - of course, there are some people who can't get where they want. This will always be the case. But what there is serves the majority and works well. If I lived in downtown HKI I wouldn't even dream of owning a car. Well, maybe only 1 or 2
Prices have dropped here and will probably continue to drop over the long term. Don't hold your breath though.
If you REALLY want a cheaper car, go abroad for a year, buy one there, then come back later and bring it as as part of your removal goods.
- government does not have a great deal of income, since there are not so many taxpayers; and thus tries very hard to tax as many things as possibe. Personally I think this will improve when all the whinging freeloading students and the 50% of unemployed immigrants piss off out of the country
- there is no protectionism involved since Finland does not have its own indiginous auto industry; unless you count assembling Boxsters on the west coast; so state can impose taxes on all cars regardless.
- the road system needs to be maintained. Have you ever been outside Kehä III? There are a lot of roads in fact serving just few small communities that still need upkeep. There are virtually no motorways, at least, compared to rest of Europe. I imagine (though don't know) that some of the vehice tax money goes towards this.
- the high price of cars keeps the roads relatively clear - I have hardly ever suffered any traffic jams in Finland. I would say this is a major benefit to those who can afford cars in the first place
- Public transport in general is excellent - of course, there are some people who can't get where they want. This will always be the case. But what there is serves the majority and works well. If I lived in downtown HKI I wouldn't even dream of owning a car. Well, maybe only 1 or 2
Prices have dropped here and will probably continue to drop over the long term. Don't hold your breath though.
If you REALLY want a cheaper car, go abroad for a year, buy one there, then come back later and bring it as as part of your removal goods.
Paul
Agreed!!!!paulrenn wrote:When I first got to Finland, I was also shocked at the price of cars here. My thoughts on the matter have since boiled down to something like the following:
- government does not have a great deal of income, since there are not so many taxpayers; and thus tries very hard to tax as many things as possibe. Personally I think this will improve when all the whinging freeloading students and the 50% of unemployed immigrants piss off out of the country
- there is no protectionism involved since Finland does not have its own indiginous auto industry; unless you count assembling Boxsters on the west coast; so state can impose taxes on all cars regardless.
- the road system needs to be maintained. Have you ever been outside Kehä III? There are a lot of roads in fact serving just few small communities that still need upkeep. There are virtually no motorways, at least, compared to rest of Europe. I imagine (though don't know) that some of the vehice tax money goes towards this.
- the high price of cars keeps the roads relatively clear - I have hardly ever suffered any traffic jams in Finland. I would say this is a major benefit to those who can afford cars in the first place
- Public transport in general is excellent - of course, there are some people who can't get where they want. This will always be the case. But what there is serves the majority and works well. If I lived in downtown HKI I wouldn't even dream of owning a car. Well, maybe only 1 or 2
Prices have dropped here and will probably continue to drop over the long term. Don't hold your breath though.
If you REALLY want a cheaper car, go abroad for a year, buy one there, then come back later and bring it as as part of your removal goods.
Ps. Need to meet up with you sometime....
-
watsonwatson
-
Hank W.
- The Motorhead
- Posts: 29973
- Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2002 10:00 pm
- Location: Mushroom Mountain
- Contact:
Depends if you are talking about traditional protectionism or modern protectionism. Neither case justifies Finland really.
Traditional protectionism sees revenue tariffs as a source of government funding, much like a sales tax, that can be used to reduce other domestic forms of taxes. The goal of traditional protectionism is to maximize tax revenue from the purchase of foreign products with the goal of being able to reduce or eliminate other forms of domestic taxation (income taxes, sales taxes, etc.) as a result.
Yeah, right. A lot of tax breaks I've seen.
Most modern views of protectionism call for placing tariffs at such a high level as to compel the consumer to buy the domestic product
Which don't exist.
The car tax is "traditional protectionism" in the sense it is revenue for the government. period. No tax breaks and only zilch goes to road maintenance (fuels are mostly tax too).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protectionism
Traditional protectionism sees revenue tariffs as a source of government funding, much like a sales tax, that can be used to reduce other domestic forms of taxes. The goal of traditional protectionism is to maximize tax revenue from the purchase of foreign products with the goal of being able to reduce or eliminate other forms of domestic taxation (income taxes, sales taxes, etc.) as a result.
Yeah, right. A lot of tax breaks I've seen.
Most modern views of protectionism call for placing tariffs at such a high level as to compel the consumer to buy the domestic product
Which don't exist.
The car tax is "traditional protectionism" in the sense it is revenue for the government. period. No tax breaks and only zilch goes to road maintenance (fuels are mostly tax too).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protectionism
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
-
watsonwatson
Hank, look up some stuff on indirect tax harmonisation. It needs to happen to stop protectionist practices that occur all over Europe.
Some good examples
1. For years indirect taxes on wine in the UK were far higher than indirect taxes on spirits and beer
2. Recently Finland cut taxes on alchohol. The biggest tax cuts were on spirits and beer. Wine taxes fell but not by very much.
Even with global warming there's still not much of an opportunity to grow grapes in the UK and even less of a chance in Finland.
High car taxes divert spending into areas that might benefit the Finnish economy. People here can't afford to replace their car every 3 years like they do in the UK and Germany. Instead the Finns spend their spare cash on other things e.g. mobile phones, restaurants and other locally provided services
Some good examples
1. For years indirect taxes on wine in the UK were far higher than indirect taxes on spirits and beer
2. Recently Finland cut taxes on alchohol. The biggest tax cuts were on spirits and beer. Wine taxes fell but not by very much.
Even with global warming there's still not much of an opportunity to grow grapes in the UK and even less of a chance in Finland.
High car taxes divert spending into areas that might benefit the Finnish economy. People here can't afford to replace their car every 3 years like they do in the UK and Germany. Instead the Finns spend their spare cash on other things e.g. mobile phones, restaurants and other locally provided services
-
watsonwatson
Hank, look up some stuff on indirect tax harmonisation. It needs to happen to stop protectionist practices that occur all over Europe.
Some good examples
1. For years indirect taxes on wine in the UK were far higher than indirect taxes on spirits and beer
2. Recently Finland cut taxes on alcohol. The biggest tax cuts were on spirits and beer. Wine taxes fell but not by very much.
Even with global warming there's still not much of an opportunity to grow grapes in the UK and even less of a chance in Finland.
High car taxes divert spending into areas that might benefit the Finnish economy. People here can't afford to replace their car every 3 years like they do in the UK and Germany. Instead the Finns spend their spare cash on other things e.g. mobile phones, restaurants and other locally provided services
Some good examples
1. For years indirect taxes on wine in the UK were far higher than indirect taxes on spirits and beer
2. Recently Finland cut taxes on alcohol. The biggest tax cuts were on spirits and beer. Wine taxes fell but not by very much.
Even with global warming there's still not much of an opportunity to grow grapes in the UK and even less of a chance in Finland.
High car taxes divert spending into areas that might benefit the Finnish economy. People here can't afford to replace their car every 3 years like they do in the UK and Germany. Instead the Finns spend their spare cash on other things e.g. mobile phones, restaurants and other locally provided services
-
Hank W.
- The Motorhead
- Posts: 29973
- Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2002 10:00 pm
- Location: Mushroom Mountain
- Contact:
Yes, but Finns don't drink that much wine don't they? And instead of a car you take the bus, you don't have money to eat out anyways, the mobiles are made in china etc.
Even if a new car cost 1/2 of what it did now I still couldn't afford to swap it.
Even if a new car cost 1/2 of what it did now I still couldn't afford to swap it.
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
-
superiorinferior
- Posts: 2245
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 3:44 pm
- Location: Helsinki
The tax decreases were based on alcohol content, not drink type.watsonwatson wrote:
1. For years indirect taxes on wine in the UK were far higher than indirect taxes on spirits and beer
2. Recently Finland cut taxes on alcohol. The biggest tax cuts were on spirits and beer. Wine taxes fell but not by very much.
There is more to car pollution than this. This isn't that simpleMook wrote:I'm not sure that this holds, given that since 1992 all new cars in the EU have had Catalytic convertors.haahatus wrote:If windows get black after a few years there is a problem. Even though Finland is massively better than many many places on this planet.
for example the euro 5 norm and particle filters and so on. These norms are getting stricter over time
http://www.t-e.nu/Article144.html
I suggest your student is in need for a brain. A pizza kebab place may have Turkish or whatever owners, but is still a Finnish business. It's using Finnish suppliers, rents his restaurant from a Finnish housing company, and pays Finnish taxes. On top of that, it is also employing (far)more people than your average KP, where I often only see one dude sweating to get all the orders prepared. So the kebab place is cotributing more to Finnish society than Koti Pizza. Tell that to your student and if she still insist to go to KP, she clearly has a different and very questionable motive.watsonwatson wrote:Recently one of my students explained that a number of her friends refuse to eat in Turkish owned pizza outfits. Instead they go to Koti pizza. I asked why. The answer according to her wasn't anything to do with value for money. She actually said that Koti pizza pizzas are small and expensive in comparison. Her friends were willing to pay the Koti pizza price premium to obtain a psychological benefit- the emotional pleasure obtained from supporting a Finnish business.
"Remember-you can't beam through a force field. So, don't try it. "(James T. Kirk)
-
Hank W.
- The Motorhead
- Posts: 29973
- Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2002 10:00 pm
- Location: Mushroom Mountain
- Contact:
Maybe is she dyed her hair darker 
Easy answer to the lure of KP maybe if you employ Freud.
So the girls go for a pizza and want to eat. Maybe the fat, balding burned-out KP chef isn't offering so much "extra sausage" as the 20-something curly-haired lanky gaselle-eyed pizza blokes who think they are God's gift to the local womenfolk? So the poor girls cannot eat when they are distracted by hot mediterranean lovers.
Of course they won't admit to this, because they're after the extra sausage anyhow in the disco after the pizza. 
Easy answer to the lure of KP maybe if you employ Freud.
So the girls go for a pizza and want to eat. Maybe the fat, balding burned-out KP chef isn't offering so much "extra sausage" as the 20-something curly-haired lanky gaselle-eyed pizza blokes who think they are God's gift to the local womenfolk? So the poor girls cannot eat when they are distracted by hot mediterranean lovers.
Of course they won't admit to this, because they're after the extra sausage anyhow in the disco after the pizza. Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
Cars are not something that everyone should have, that is just plain stupid. Ever heard of global warming. Obviously there are people who need a car. If you live in a rural area and public transport is crap. I live in the centre of Kuopio and really have no need for a car, I can walk everywhere, and the odd time I leave I actually take the bus. I refuse to pay the gas prices. and I own a car. Less automobiles on the road = less pollution. My car is more to keep my sanity intact while I'm here, If I need to get away for a day I have the option. Though the last couple times the train served my purpose well. 5000 euro or 10000 euro for a car, it doesn't matter if you got 5000 buy a 5000 car.