..no job, no fun
you could try and apply bhuddist economic principles and blurr the boundary between work and play by say that sitting on the dole is working but I don't think bhudda got a good sized belly by bludging off the state...
...its fairly pointless taking someone where they don't want to go if you're going to leave them unemployed at home in the middle of winter with no mates and expect them to be happy...same goes for blokes with girlfriends in Kuwait, outback Australia, Kuching etc
Opportunity/threat to once live in Finland?
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superiorinferior
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Valuable to whom?phhm wrote: I still think it's just a question of attitude and that attitudes change and can be changed. THAT is why ALL such gut feelings are ridiculous when they make you give up something valuable.
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Don't get me wrong, I know how you feel. You feel like you've "paid your dues" and now want some payback. I feel your pain, really I do. But the fact is, I think you know that his gut feeling has some merit... I know because I am in a similar situation. I have been here long enough to begin thinking "Christ, this is it? This is where I ended up? This is where I'm gonna die? I want to do so much more... I wanna sail the seven seas... I wanna get out of ____________."
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Nadriandel
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I don't think you're asking for anything unreasonable, phhm, but I'd heed SuperiorInferior's advice.
Even if you convince your boyfriend to live in Finland despite his 'gut feeling', it is quite possible that he will just look for any excuse to claim he's unhappy, and ignore all the positive things. That's what people tend to do, when they are forced, or feel forced to do something.
On the other hand, I completely understand you, if he asks you to sacrifice something, he should be willing to do the same.
So I guess there is no simple solution to your problem, but that's life.
Sorry, I know I wasn't of much help.
Even if you convince your boyfriend to live in Finland despite his 'gut feeling', it is quite possible that he will just look for any excuse to claim he's unhappy, and ignore all the positive things. That's what people tend to do, when they are forced, or feel forced to do something.
On the other hand, I completely understand you, if he asks you to sacrifice something, he should be willing to do the same.
So I guess there is no simple solution to your problem, but that's life.
Sorry, I know I wasn't of much help.
For once, I totally agree with SI's advice...
I am a foreigner with a Finnish SO living here in Finland and I decided to move here from the US.
my SO was also living there with me in the US for some time but we both agreed that if we decided to settle down, its best to raise family here in Finland. But it had nothing to do with her convincing me to move here.
I guess that if he is not "willing" to move here, and you are trying to change that, no matter whether you want to call it a gut feeling or not, You have a very high chance of him moving outta here when things go unbearable, in work, in climate, in relationships, etc..
You want to "Find" a reason for yourself to change his "gut" feeling, and that always keeps open the possibility for him to move away from here anytime in your relationship.
Have you thought of his gut feeling and trying to respect that? ( instead of trying to change that).
For e.g. I dont like a lot of things here...but then I Love ma wife for me to consider those things inconsequential!!
Trying to change people is the most hardest thing...People change themselves ...not others who change them!!
I am a foreigner with a Finnish SO living here in Finland and I decided to move here from the US.
my SO was also living there with me in the US for some time but we both agreed that if we decided to settle down, its best to raise family here in Finland. But it had nothing to do with her convincing me to move here.
I guess that if he is not "willing" to move here, and you are trying to change that, no matter whether you want to call it a gut feeling or not, You have a very high chance of him moving outta here when things go unbearable, in work, in climate, in relationships, etc..
You want to "Find" a reason for yourself to change his "gut" feeling, and that always keeps open the possibility for him to move away from here anytime in your relationship.
Have you thought of his gut feeling and trying to respect that? ( instead of trying to change that).
For e.g. I dont like a lot of things here...but then I Love ma wife for me to consider those things inconsequential!!
Trying to change people is the most hardest thing...People change themselves ...not others who change them!!
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Hank W.
- The Motorhead
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phhm wrote:and if he doesn't show enough open-mindedness and capacity to adapt), guess what, I'm returning to Finland in January 2007.
So your project of luring over a foreign boyfriend hasn't worked already *twice*?I gave years to my previous boyfriend until I just left by myself. He loved Finland but not to live, as he put it. I'm am convinced it was more a problem of following a woman, of anxiety in front of a choice that is not his to begin with.
It is as cruel to take some helpless foreign git to Finland to get cabin fever as it is to take a cat for the summer and then abandon it at the cottage.
Though I do agree it is quid pro quo. Both parties in a multicultural relationship should give each other's home country at least a try, and not dismiss it offhand.
Last edited by Hank W. on Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
Agreed. Been there, done that. Unfortunately, life does not work like that. Everyone has different levels of what they are capable of. Just because *you* are capable of moving abroad doesn't mean *he* is capable of the same. We all operate differently. Of course he should want to move abroad for you. But the fact is: he can't (or won't)."Don't get me wrong, I know how you feel. You feel like you've "paid your dues" and now want some payback."
Guess what else. Life is not fair. And some times you just have to accept that and deal with it. If life was fair, GWB would not be president of the US. End of story.
How do you copy a part of the other person's message on a white background?
Ok, I understand the winter can make you tired. I have difficulties believing nowhere else has downfalls. Look for compensation elsewhere! No one says you have to stay indoors for seven months (which is an exaggeration). Go to theatre or for a few laps on a light up skiing track.
"agree that at least up to Kuopio, the geography of inner Finland is monotonous, flat and repetetive, I miss having a 3d landscape,"
I think you should have a closer look. Move from looking at big 3D forms to paying attention to changes in light, seasons, colors, details, smells, from large scale to small scale. I think a vast open lake is a pretty grand view, even if horizontal rather than vertical.
"is why ALL such gut feelings are ridiculous when they make you give up something valuable.
Valuable to whom? "
You are suggesting I am not valuable for him. In that case, why didn't he dump me when the subject Finland first came up nearly a year ago? Why does he keep struggling in a blocked situation? I guess because it is as difficult for him to face the consequences of his never wanting to live in Finland as it is for me to face the consequences of not wanting to always live outside Finland.
"So your project of luring over a foreign boyfriend hasn't worked already *twice*?"
It's not a question of luring. I think an intelligent person should understand that if you live with a German, there are good chances he or she will want to live in his or her home country one day. And that you are married with his or her home country as much as with the person. My first experience was not honest with me. He made me believe for a long time it was an option and he even sent job applications. But there was no way actually getting him to move.
That's why this time I brought the subject up before I change my life and move countries. It does indeed look like he will never change. And I am not taking the risk of being always the one adapting and giving up what is important to me.
"...its fairly pointless taking someone where they don't want to go if you're going to leave them unemployed at home in the middle of winter with no mates and expect them to be happy..."
As said above, no question of being unemployed, he'd look for a job first. And then if the other person does not go out and get friends, unless I have locked him up in the apartment, it is his own fault first of all.
I don't know why you guys say you don't get friends in Finland. When I was living in Helsinki I was practically looking for foreigners to make friends. Are you really looking and trying to get amongs natives?
Ok, I understand the winter can make you tired. I have difficulties believing nowhere else has downfalls. Look for compensation elsewhere! No one says you have to stay indoors for seven months (which is an exaggeration). Go to theatre or for a few laps on a light up skiing track.
"agree that at least up to Kuopio, the geography of inner Finland is monotonous, flat and repetetive, I miss having a 3d landscape,"
I think you should have a closer look. Move from looking at big 3D forms to paying attention to changes in light, seasons, colors, details, smells, from large scale to small scale. I think a vast open lake is a pretty grand view, even if horizontal rather than vertical.
"is why ALL such gut feelings are ridiculous when they make you give up something valuable.
Valuable to whom? "
You are suggesting I am not valuable for him. In that case, why didn't he dump me when the subject Finland first came up nearly a year ago? Why does he keep struggling in a blocked situation? I guess because it is as difficult for him to face the consequences of his never wanting to live in Finland as it is for me to face the consequences of not wanting to always live outside Finland.
"So your project of luring over a foreign boyfriend hasn't worked already *twice*?"
It's not a question of luring. I think an intelligent person should understand that if you live with a German, there are good chances he or she will want to live in his or her home country one day. And that you are married with his or her home country as much as with the person. My first experience was not honest with me. He made me believe for a long time it was an option and he even sent job applications. But there was no way actually getting him to move.
That's why this time I brought the subject up before I change my life and move countries. It does indeed look like he will never change. And I am not taking the risk of being always the one adapting and giving up what is important to me.
"...its fairly pointless taking someone where they don't want to go if you're going to leave them unemployed at home in the middle of winter with no mates and expect them to be happy..."
As said above, no question of being unemployed, he'd look for a job first. And then if the other person does not go out and get friends, unless I have locked him up in the apartment, it is his own fault first of all.
I don't know why you guys say you don't get friends in Finland. When I was living in Helsinki I was practically looking for foreigners to make friends. Are you really looking and trying to get amongs natives?
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Hank W.
- The Motorhead
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Finnish women always run after the foreign men. Finnish men sit in the corner drinking their pint alone. The foreign man inflicted with a HBS has the option of being treated as "prey" or "competition". Now make "friends", the natives are a tad hostile tho... 
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
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superiorinferior
- Posts: 2245
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- Location: Helsinki
phhm wrote:How do you copy a part of the other person's message on a white background?
Look at the text block of the thing you want to quote and click on the bubble that says "Quote." It will take the entire block into a new reply box where you can pick and choose the text as you wish.
But back to the issue at hand. You seem determined to take him over and he seems determined not to go. Either get over it or get over him, cause if you bring him over against his will, you'll probably be more misterable than you already think you are now.Or you can copy paste from wherever and then highlight the text in your "reply" editor... and when it is highlighted, click on "Quote."
I know many French people in Finland. Very few have chosen to live here permanently. Those few would probably never leave since Finland has really become their home. But, the vast majority come here for a year or two and are generally more than happy to leave. Even if their experience has been a positive one, which they do not regret, the general opinion is that Finland is not.... er.... France. I have no real explanation. Other Europeans seem to find it easier to adapt here (the Danes, Germans, Dutch maybe....) but it is unusual to find a Frenchman who has settled here, or an Italian or a Spaniard.
I lived in France for 20 years.... and I have every intention of going back as soon as my kids have finished school and I can afford to maintain a pied à terre in both places. Most of my friends are there and I really do miss the way of life. But when my husband and I decided to move to Finland we never went through the "negotiation" process that you and your partner are in the middle of now. Maybe because we just trusted each other and were both excited at the idea of a move, but more likely because neither of us is a pro at thinking further ahead than next weekend
Out of curiosity.... what were your reasons for leaving Finland? Maybe your partner doesn't have those same motivations. There is nothing wrong with being happy where one is.
Have you posted your question on http://www.ranska.net ? You might get some interesting replies from French people living here.
I lived in France for 20 years.... and I have every intention of going back as soon as my kids have finished school and I can afford to maintain a pied à terre in both places. Most of my friends are there and I really do miss the way of life. But when my husband and I decided to move to Finland we never went through the "negotiation" process that you and your partner are in the middle of now. Maybe because we just trusted each other and were both excited at the idea of a move, but more likely because neither of us is a pro at thinking further ahead than next weekend
Out of curiosity.... what were your reasons for leaving Finland? Maybe your partner doesn't have those same motivations. There is nothing wrong with being happy where one is.
Have you posted your question on http://www.ranska.net ? You might get some interesting replies from French people living here.
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Hank W.
- The Motorhead
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OK, so the first one was nice to you and told you what you wanted to hear to keep you happy. So you thanked him by dumping him.phhm wrote: He made me believe for a long time it was an option and he even sent job applications. But there was no way actually getting him to move.
This one is being truthful to you and telling you the truth. And you are going to thank him by dumping him.
you truly are a Finnish Woman - never satisfied with anything!!! Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
What would be the point of dragging someone somewhere they don't want
to go in the first place? And can't he love you with having to prove it
by moving to a place he doesn't want to go to? From your messages,
the idea comes across that that is the only measure you have for if
he loves you or not.
Sadly to say, if you're not happy there and he won't come here and
neither of you will move to a third country, breaking up is the only option.
-enk
to go in the first place? And can't he love you with having to prove it
by moving to a place he doesn't want to go to? From your messages,
the idea comes across that that is the only measure you have for if
he loves you or not.
Sadly to say, if you're not happy there and he won't come here and
neither of you will move to a third country, breaking up is the only option.
-enk
Re: Opportunity/threat to once live in Finland?
I'm one of them, and I'm coming from the sunny south of Europe.phhm wrote: I would like foreign men living in Finland to describe why they don't regret having moved to Finland (especially the capital region), why the dark winter is not so bad and why the scenery is not dull.
Why I'm here? I'm engineer so I like tough life
Sorry for the brutal question but where is your place in this picture?I've agreed to move where he lives now because he is very attached to the place, his job, his team etc. (He does not particularly want to stay there all his life.)
1) Where did he spend the weekend? What he did during his stay here to learn something about Finland?he is not particularly attracted to Finland (after one summer vacation and a long weekend). He finds the scenery is monotonous and he is afraid of the dark season. He has this gut feeling that he does not really want to live there, and he can't do it against his guts. He needs sunlight.
BTW: he has concerns in how 'natural' Finland is. Does he show any interest in how 'cultural' Finland is?
2) Don't underestimate gut feelings, or think you can change or override them. You may overcome them until you live easy times, but in critical and fearful times they will probably come back and have the upper hand.
It is not the only measure of his love. It's just than Finland is my country that I love (not forgetting family and friends) and I can't be happy thinking I can never again live there.enk wrote:And can't he love you with having to prove it
by moving to a place he doesn't want to go to? From your messages,
the idea comes across that that is the only measure you have for if
he loves you or not.
Sadly to say, if you're not happy there and he won't come here and
neither of you will move to a third country, breaking up is the only option.
-enk
I love the mentality, the seasons, the traditions, the nature, all the things you do in Finland... My borther's children always ask me why I can't go back to Finland.
But I don't necessarily need to live in Finland for the rest of my life, once I go there. If he gives it a fair try and if, after a few years when we can say he knows the place, he still isn't happy, I am not against moving elsewhere. I've already lived ten years out of my life abroad, in several goes.
My answer to penelope: He is not French even though he's lived there for two years. (I know the French and Finland are not a good match.)
The second last time I left Finland for a traineeship and then stayed for a man and a job. Last time I was unhappy at my job, nobody was recruiting and I was alone. So it was easy to leave and look elsewhere. I never thought it would be for more than two or three years.
Hank W. says Finnish women run after foreign men. I don't think I do but I guess I am attracted by a multicultural relationship because I end up in them.
It would be easier if I met a Finn who is not against living abroad for a while, because it seems impossible to meet a foreigner who is not against living in Finland for a while.
You just need to decide if:
1. He is more important
2. Living in Finland for a time is more important
I could be wrong, but I would also suspect it may be tough to move permanently from Finland even after having been there a few years (if he does agree to live with you). Because, it would be the exact same situation you are in now. You would leave with no hope of moving back. Do you really want that?
1. He is more important
2. Living in Finland for a time is more important
I could be wrong, but I would also suspect it may be tough to move permanently from Finland even after having been there a few years (if he does agree to live with you). Because, it would be the exact same situation you are in now. You would leave with no hope of moving back. Do you really want that?
Exactly. If you really want to live abroad, with the option of returning to Finland someday, I would maybe think about finding a Finnish guy who wouldn't mind living in other places or a person who has ties to Finland (i.e. a parent, grandparent) but is from another country that interests you. It may be tough to find, but they are out there.It would be easier if I met a Finn who is not against living abroad for a while, because it seems impossible to meet a foreigner who is not against living in Finland for a while.