Try asking native Finns this trick question...

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Niall Shaky
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Joined: Mon May 05, 2003 3:41 pm

Try asking native Finns this trick question...

Post by Niall Shaky » Mon Oct 20, 2003 11:58 am

... if you want to really annoy them! :twisted:

The correct words to use when one of your friends is sick are "Parane pian" - "Get well soon" or literally "improve soon"...

The "soon" part is easy: "pian" translates into english directly.

"Parane" is a little more difficult. It is a verb in its imperative form, meaning that you are telling someone to get better: just like in the English sentence "Get well soon".

But this is the question:

What is the verb infinitive (the basic form) from which the imperative "parane" is derived?

:twisted:

(I actually reckon Hank will get this right, so PM me so as not to spoil it for the others!!!)
Last edited by Niall Shaky on Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Try asking native Finns this trick question...

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Hank W.
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Post by Hank W. » Mon Oct 20, 2003 12:43 pm

Well, as an elementary observation it is 'parane', not 'parenne'. :roll:

I'll refrain from saying more for a while :mrgreen:
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.

PeterF
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Post by PeterF » Mon Oct 20, 2003 12:54 pm

Feeling are tricky ones..feeling better..does not translate word for word..
parempi..= better.. but you cant say "oletko parempi?".. That is like saying "you were badly behaved are you better behaved now.??!"..However if you say it, the Finns will know what you mean.... also giving imperatives demands when it comes to get better!!! Can one demand someone gets better in health.??.or are you saying get better in your behaviour..??

I usualy say something something like.."toivon että paranet pian"..!..from the verb "to feel better"
Or "voitko paremmin?"

But to answer your question...just a guess.. .is it parantua??

Niall Shaky
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Post by Niall Shaky » Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:03 pm

Hank W. wrote:Well, as an elementary observation it is 'parane', not 'parenne'. :roll:
A quick edit later!

Niall Shaky
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Post by Niall Shaky » Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:04 pm

Peter Floyd wrote:
But to answer your question...just a guess.. .is it parantua??
Nope. Wrong. But that is what everybody says... so no shame in that!

Tom and Jerry

Post by Tom and Jerry » Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:17 pm

Niall,

paranee,

these language games are only fun for English ones trying to learn Finnish. Really, the best Finnish modern writers have no idea what you mean by comitative, instructive, partitive plural etc. It's only foreigners who are teased with these terms.
Nice joke.

:D

Niall Shaky
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Post by Niall Shaky » Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:19 pm

I'm actually beginning to doubt that I know the right answer to this one now... so I may as well explain what I was getting at...

My Finnish teacher originally told me that the infinitive would be verb type VI- the verbs that conjugate e.g. for infinitive "ilmetä", to reveal:

ilmenen
ilmenet
ilmenee

etc.

Right?

But they all end -eta, right? e.g. ilmetä, lyhetä, etc.

So now I don't know what the @#$% she was talking about. She was basically saying that the correct infinitive is "parata" ("pareta"?), but that the infinitive has now dropped out of use so now most Finns would go for parantua or parantaa- the imperitive of "parantua" would be "parannu", right?

I'm thinking now that the parane imperitive comes from some irregular verb...

I dunno... :(

Guest

Post by Guest » Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:26 pm

My guess....

It's verbtype I 'parantaa' in the potentiaali...

Niall Shaky
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Post by Niall Shaky » Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:29 pm

Arno wrote:My guess....

It's verbtype I 'parantaa' in the potentiaali...
:shock: :shock: :shock:

Wow. That sounds convincing! More information, please Arno! :D

Like firstly, what is potentiaali? I've not come across it before. What does it mean?

Secondly, how do you form it? From which verb stem? Looks strange! I can go and impress my Finnish teacher at the next lesson... :D
Last edited by Niall Shaky on Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tom and Jerry

Post by Tom and Jerry » Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:30 pm

Niall Shaky wrote:I'm actually beginning to doubt that I know the right answer to this one now... so I may as well explain what I was getting at...

My Finnish teacher originally told me that the infinitive would be verb type VI- the verbs that conjugate e.g. for infinitive "ilmetä", to reveal:

ilmenen
ilmenet
ilmenee

etc.

Right?

But they all end -eta, right? e.g. ilmetä, lyhetä, etc.

So now I don't know what the @#$% she was talking about. She was basically saying that the correct infinitive is "parata" ("pareta"?), but that the infinitive has now dropped out of use so now most Finns would go for parantua or parantaa- the imperitive of "parantua" would be "parannu", right?

I'm thinking now that the parane imperitive comes from some irregular verb...

I dunno... :(
Your teacher is right, but the example wrong. This devision in six classes will do for 99% of all verbs. So, you better stick to it. However, there are in fact 26 groups of verbs and parane is one of the exceptions, it goes in group72. Forget it, just follow what your teacher tells you to do.

In practice it means the same as parantua.

paranee 72 (konsonanttivartaloiset muodot kuten parata, parannut, parattiin, parattu jne. korvautuvat tav. parantua-verbin vastaavilla muodoilla parantua, parantunut, parannettiin, parannettu jne.)

1. ( = parantua). Potilas parani taudista. Parane pian! Sää on paranemaan päin, paranemassa. Asia ei murehtimalla parane. Tästä ei auto parane tämän parempaa autoa ei ole.

2. (vain yks. 3. persoonan muotoja) kans. kielteisissä yhteyksissä: auttaa, hyödyttää, kannattaa. Sitä ei parane kieltääkään. Ei hänen parane panna vastaan. •

Niall Shaky
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Post by Niall Shaky » Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:35 pm

Tom and Jerry wrote: Forget it, just follow what your teacher tells you to do.
My teacher told me to play this little game on the Finns I know and find out if they knew. Seems like my teacher didn't actually know the correct infinitive! Ha! 8)

Tom and Jerry

Post by Tom and Jerry » Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:37 pm

My Finnish teacher originally told me that the infinitive would be verb type VI- the verbs that conjugate e.g. for infinitive "ilmetä", to reveal:

ilmenen
ilmenet
ilmenee

etc.

Right?


Ilmetä is also group 72, indeed.

aleta,edetä,enetä, halveta, hapata, hurjeta, jähmetä....

There are many more exceptions in the Finnish language than you may think of. So, I just learn these by heart. It seemed more efficient than bothering about grammatical rules with so and so many exceptions.

Tom and Jerry

Post by Tom and Jerry » Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:49 pm

"My teacher told me to play this little game on the Finns I know and find out if they knew. Ha! 8)[/quote]

He he....Don't tease your teacher. Better to learn these object and partitive rules, that is more useful.

Tom and Jerry

Post by Tom and Jerry » Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:57 pm

Arno wrote:My guess....

It's verbtype I 'parantaa' in the potentiaali...
Hän parantanee....

????sounds odd????????????

Niall Shaky
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Post by Niall Shaky » Mon Oct 20, 2003 2:00 pm

Tom and Jerry wrote:
He he....Don't tease your teacher. Better to learn these object and partitive rules, that is more useful.
She can take it, she's a good laugh... :D


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