finland needs workers

[Tiwaz]

So offer us solution which works.

Do you have magic wand which is able to make immigrant capable of performing a job requiring finnish without finnish?

And no, option "make finns use english" is not available.

And if your comment to Hank in other part of this forum in finnish represents your skill in finnish I would say you have lots of work to do to get into understandable level.

[Hank W.]

Well, I used to work in a hotel. Both in the USA and Finland. In teh USA there was a manager, a mismanager and a mismanagers manager and 10 people doing simple idiot tasks. One could read, one could write and one knew how to drive to the airport and back. In Finland there was *one* person doing all this work, mismanaging himself... So either we radically change the employment/payment structure (which means scrapping the Nordic welfare society) to be able to employ 10 idiots and 10 managers,. or we continue with the one self-homing stressed out worker that has to do 10 peoples work. (or he does 5 peoples work and if someone asks for extra service he says "piss off")

[sinikettu]

So offer us solution which works.


And if your comment to Hank in other part of this forum in finnish represents your skill in finnish I would say you have lots of work to do to get into understandable level.

1: If I had a solution I would offer it.... the government needs to find the solution, not me.

2: Dont know what comments I might have made to Hank might be.. but..
My Finnish, and Swedish is Adequate for my needs thank you.
Personal comments I usualy ignore at my age. (66, and still at work with an international, Non IT, company, often speaking Finnish and Swedish, and of course English).

[rinso]

For instance, in the Netherlands are these work/education programs; 2 days school, 3 days work.
It could be a very effective way to integrate a foreigner in the work place and bring his language skills to an adequate level.
In many places it should be possible to organize the work so that the "trainee" doesn't need babysitting most of the time.
Problem is the employer must be convinced this is a good approach, and of course it costs money.

[Hank W.]

They have similar programmes here, retraining or then getting youth off the streets who aren't interested in school so much. Problem is the employers want a full worker and not someone doing "make-work" so the only places that employment is found are some county jobs, and the motivation is the issue. There are some companies that are more involved, the government does offer incentives, but then the whole system is a bit uncoordinated at times as well.

[shrecher]

How large percentage does not speak finnish?

I can't answer.

Find out, it might be shocking revelation.

I know answer I can't tell due to NDA. No, it is not shocking, very promising.

No. I sooner don't know IT companies within Kehä 3 where English is not official language. At least Tietoenator, Flander, Nokia, Hybrid.

Wow, that is what... 4 companies out of which 3 are big ones. Are you still failing to realise that they are the big, visible tip of the iceberg? They do NOT represent finnish IT business as whole. Are you somehow thick if you can't figure out that what company with 10 000 people and what company with 10-30 people look at in the applicant are totally different things? For one taking in 10 guys is minor detail while other one has to carefully estimate risks and problems coming from hiring just one?

Most jobs are NOT in Flander, Nokia, Hybrid and TE. They are NOT representatives of S-M size companies who hire most people.

Nokia is excellent company to work for foreigns. It offers competitive salary (50 K-75K per year), no Finnish language as requirement, very good team spirit. I would sooner says the people are very talented, and Nokia is seeking them all the time. I tell you, there is no problem to be hired there, no matter what is language/social status/race/work permit status. If a person is good it will be hired at any cost.

About "S-M size companies". I don't know they specific. If they hire only the native Finn, speaking fluent language then it is they problem. I don't plan to work in small company, at least next year. I like good salary, I like multi national team of professional, I like secure job, I like English as working language. Why should I change the existing company? Can a small company offer me a better then I have now? May be yes, but may be no. On another hang, I'm not sure the small company can survive with it practicising race and language discrimination, as foreigns people won't work there, but they are very valuable asset of any IT company. But anyway, even I would take your words, this is "S-M size companies" problem, not IT professionals.

WHAT ABOUT THE REST?

Really what? I don't know. I'm IT worker and my branch everything shining. What in other areas we need to ask the professional in that areas. Speculation about it has no sense. Experience of my friend -- construction worker, shows that knowing 1000 works is sufficient to work (basically execute simple orders).

[Tiwaz]

Nokia is excellent company to work for foreigns. It offers competitive salary (50 K-75K per year), no Finnish language as requirement, very good team spirit. I would sooner says the people are very talented, and Nokia is seeking them all the time. I tell you, there is no problem to be hired there, no matter what is language/social status/race/work permit status. If a person is good it will be hired at any cost.

Nokia will not hire everyone. If foreigner can get to Nokia, good for them. If they can't... Well, guess what. They are out of luck! Me? I have options aplenty, including abroad.

How many immigrant actually qualifies for category "good enough to hire at any cost"... Few.

About "S-M size companies". I don't know they specific. If they hire only the native Finn, speaking fluent language then it is they problem. I don't plan to work in small company, at least next year. I like good salary, I like multi national team of professional, I like secure job, I like English as working language. Why should I change the existing company? Can a small company offer me a better then I have now? May be yes, but may be no. On another hang, I'm not sure the small company can survive with it practicising race and language discrimination, as foreigns people won't work there, but they are very valuable asset of any IT company. But anyway, even I would take your words, this is "S-M size companies" problem, not IT professionals.

Apparently the idea that Nokia and handful of big corporations will not need much more IT people, foreign or domestic escapes you. They do not represent majority of jobs in that field.

As for your assumption that S-M size companies are in trouble... Actually they are not. I personally know people from TE and Nokia switching to smaller ones. You see, small companies have big benefits. Unlike Nokia worker, I can have chat with anyone here, up to CEO of company. Things are flexible with less bureaucratic mess.

S-M companies get skilled finnish workers, Nokia gets giltarses who think sun shines from their rectal area who do not mind having manager, managers manager and managerial manager managers eating up their salaries. (every nonproductive useless manager uses up money that could be paid to guys doing actual work)

You see, being foreigner does not make you more qualified than finn. Qualifications make you qualified. But this qualified finn or finnish speaker has more options. If your qualified immigrant can't get his arse hired to Nokia he will have little options unless he is lucky. KELA here I come!
Qualified finnish speaker, should he not be hired to Nokia has still majority of industry to apply to.

And Nokia only needs so many workers.

So, in short. Please stop fooling people to think it's breeze to get a job in Finland if you do not speak finnish. You only cause sorrow to people who did not get that Nokia job. Even more if they find out they were left out because Nokia hired a finn.

[shrecher]

Nokia is excellent company to work for foreigns. It offers competitive salary (50 K-75K per year), no Finnish language as requirement, very good team spirit. I would sooner says the people are very talented, and Nokia is seeking them all the time. I tell you, there is no problem to be hired there, no matter what is language/social status/race/work permit status. If a person is good it will be hired at any cost.

Nokia will not hire everyone. If foreigner can get to Nokia, good for them. If they can't... Well, guess what. They are out of luck! Me? I have options aplenty, including abroad.

How many immigrant actually qualifies for category "good enough to hire at any cost"... Few.

Quite enough. Nokia is hiring (period).

As for your assumption that S-M size companies are in trouble... Actually they are not. I personally know people from TE and Nokia switching to smaller ones. You see, small companies have big benefits. Unlike Nokia worker, I can have chat with anyone here, up to CEO of company. Things are flexible with less bureaucratic mess.

Maybe it is "bureaucratic mess" and possible people can't chat to CEO (I've never tried, perhaps I should), however, Nokia employs a lots of foreigns and they're happy. And employees pay to this country budget high tax (basically double tax of average Finnish work). Our wifes born kids to become Finnish citezens and going to contribute this when you and me retire.

Nokia gets giltarses who think sun shines from their rectal area

Let Nokia to decide whom to hire, OK?

You see, being foreigner does not make you more qualified than finn. Qualifications make you qualified. But this qualified finn or finnish speaker has more options. If your qualified immigrant can't get his arse hired to Nokia he will have little options unless he is lucky. KELA here I come!

brrrrr. I don't understand it, sorry.

And Nokia only needs so many workers.

It is good for country, am I right?

So, in short. Please stop fooling people to think it's breeze to get a job in Finland if you do not speak finnish. You only cause sorrow to people who did not get that Nokia job. Even more if they find out they were left out because Nokia hired a finn.

I can turn you back the same, but I'll just repeat:it is quite possible to work here without Finnish languge, as long as, person is true professional. Please welcome to Finland, many companies are looking for you.

[rinso]

but I'll just repeat:it is quite possible to work here without Finnish languge, as long as, person is true professional. Please welcome to Finland, many companies are looking for you.

So people stop whining and telling us you cannot get a job.
It is easy. If you cannot succeed in Finland, it's your own fault, there are plenty of opportunities.
<Finland according to shrecher>

[Tiwaz]

Quite enough. Nokia is hiring (period).

You mean they want 100 000 immigrants urgently?

Maybe it is "bureaucratic mess" and possible people can't chat to CEO (I've never tried, perhaps I should), however, Nokia employs a lots of foreigns and they're happy. And employees pay to this country budget high tax (basically double tax of average Finnish work). Our wifes born kids to become Finnish citezens and going to contribute this when you and me retire.

Except when you fail to get that Nokia job you end up at KELA money because you are unable to work except within this very small niche job of huge corporation and thus are worthless in most fields.

Even worse if you are not even able to find that small niche, you go to KELA automatically.

brrrrr. I don't understand it, sorry.

I'll explain simply...

You no speak finnish, you only good to work at Nokia.
You no get job at Nokia, you no good to society.
Nokia no hire everyone.

I can turn you back the same, but I'll just repeat:it is quite possible to work here without Finnish languge, as long as, person is true professional. Please welcome to Finland, many companies are looking for you.

And for idiots who believe schrecker... Here is translation with dose of realism.

You MIGHT get a job without finnish if you have really good references and qualifications AND work at very niche business.

If you are anything but polish construction worker or IT-supergeek, you will NOT be likely to find job without finnish.

[shrecher]

very niche business.

each business is a niche.

If you are anything but polish construction worker or IT-supergeek, you will NOT be likely to find job without finnish.

Maybe this is true, but person can learn 1000 words in 2 months to execute his job at construction. I guess two months is OK as accommodation period.

[Tiwaz]

very niche business.

each business is a niche.

*sigh* And some niches are smaller than others. IT is small niche. It will not swallow 100 000 jobless immigrants with Nokia and 3 other big companies.

If you are anything but polish construction worker or IT-supergeek, you will NOT be likely to find job without finnish.

Maybe this is true, but person can learn 1000 words in 2 months to execute his job at construction. I guess two months is OK as accommodation period.

Except construction is niche too. It is "no customer contact" niche. Good luck trying to get job in service business with promise that you try to learn finnish eventually.

"Ma ei ummarta" is not acceptable response from service worker.

And would be interesting to see that 1000 words in 2 months guy. Or rather, if he can put together even few of them to form understandable phrase.

[shrecher]

Tivas: it is possible to work without Finnish, don't try to proof I don't exit here.
If I can't work for good salary here I'll back to Russia. In Russia I can have +20% compare to Finland ($4500 was my salary in Moscow). Currently, me and Finland are in balance: I like quiet life here and Finland likes me

[sinikettu]

Round and Round in ever decreasing circles untill they disappear up their own tails..
shrecher and Tizwaz battle on like tweedle dee and tweedle dum....

This thread is nothing to do with Nokia needing or not needing staff.
It is nothing to do with inability of some users of this board to communicate in Finnish and/or their inabilty to get employed.

It is about the apparent imminent lack of workers in Finland, to the tune of 100,000, that will be needed in Social Services, Health Care, and, The Service Industries such as Hotels nation-wide.

The YLE suggestion that "foreigners/immigrants" can fill these jobs seems to fall down a hole when the employers say.."They need to be fluent in Finnish!"
As this can not be acheived over night.
No solution can be found.

I wonder if the Pub Terrace is open..I need a

[shrecher]

The YLE suggestion that "foreigners/immigrants" can fill these jobs seems to fall down a hole when the employers say.."They need to be fluent in Finnish!"
As this can not be acheived over night.
No solution can be found.

"fluent" is 1000 words. This is doable for average person in 2 month. This is enough to execute the simple orders.