Finnish Opinions: Homosexual Families

[Russianmusicandlove]

Is there a general consensus on the topic in Finland?



I've read that as with heterosexual couples, homosexual couples can get granted Finnish citizenship through civil union/marriage (and the required amount of years living in Finland that apply). Is the civil union process and citizenship process really as simple for homo as heterosexual couples?

Are two women/men looked down upon when approaching play groups, schools, day care, etc?

My girlfriend would really like to stay in Finland to live, as would I, but these are things to consider. Would America (my native country) be more conducive?

All responses are greatly appreciated!

[Mook]

Are two women/men looked down upon when approaching play groups, schools, day care, etc?

how would you tell that they're homosexual?

Do they have big signs?
Is it written on their clothing?
Is their behaviour so outrageous that they could only be homsexual...?

[Rip]

Act on registered partnerships:
http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokset ... 010950.pdf

Chapter 3 — Legal effects of the registration of partnership
Section 8
(1) The registration of partnership shall have the same legal effects as the conclusion
of marriage, unless otherwise provided.
(2) The dissolution of a registered partnership shall have the same legal effects as
the dissolution of marriage, unless otherwise provided.
(3) A provision in an Act or a Decree applicable to marriage applies likewise to a
registered partnership, unless otherwise provided.
(4) A provision in an Act or a Decree applicable to a spouse applies likewise to a
partner in a partnership referred to in this Act, unless otherwise provided.
Partners who intend to register their partnership shall be subject to the
provisions applicable to engaged persons, unless otherwise provided.
3
Section 9
(1) The provisions of the Paternity Act (700/1975; isyyslaki) on the establishment of
paternity on the basis of marriage do not apply in a registered partnership, nor
do any other provisions applicable to a spouse exclusively by virtue of his or her
sex.
(2) The provisions of the Adoption Act (153/1985; laki lapseksiottamisesta) on the
right of a spouse to adopt do not apply in a registered partnership, nor do the
provisions of the Names Act (694/1985; nimilaki) on the family name of a spouse.

Important the difference compared to marriage is the lack of adoption rights (although there is a current proposal of the government that would allow adoption by one of the partners of a child by of the other partner). Apart from the exceptions stated, legally a registered partnership is same as marriage, giving also the same fast-track route to citizenship as the traditional wives and husbands of Finnish citizens have.

As for general opinion, there are differences. The parliament records state that the original approval of the law went like this:
(28th of September 2001)
Law approved with 99 'Yes' votes, 88 'No's. One abstention and 15 absent. Commotion in chamber, applause from audience seats. The speaker calls form calm in the chamber and among the audience.

My understanding is that the attitudes are more liberal in larger southern cities and more conservative in rural areas or our Northern "Bible belt". It didn't prevent Tarja Halonen from coming our president that she we was a former chair of the main Finnish LGBT organization.

[E Maya]

On SETA's (a national human rights organization that aims for a society of equality and individual welfare that includes everyone, regardless of sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender expression) website it says:

Family Relations In Europe

-Finland recognises parenthood confirmed abroad even when it concerns parents of the the same sex
-All EU members do not recognise a union registered in another country, or a union between two people of the same sex. This can make life difficult especialy for families in which one member is from outside the EU.

So it would seem to imply that Finland recognises an union registered in another country, and therefore the process should be the same as with a straight couple.

I found this SETA page in English http://www.treseta.fi/english
They have a phone number there, so you could call and ask them for more details.

There is also this

SETA - LGBT Rights in Finland
Mannerheimintie 170 A 5
00300 Helsinki
Phone +358 (0)9 6812 580
Fax +358 (0) 6812 5880


(Perhesuhteet Euroopassa

* Suomi tunnustaa ulkomailla vahvistetun vanhemmuuden silloinkin kun se koskee kahta samaa sukupuolta olevaa vanhempaa.
* Kaikki Euroopan unionin jäsenmaat eivät tunnusta toisessa jäsenmaassa rekisteröityä parisuhdetta tai samaa sukupuolta olevien avioliittoa. Tämä vaikeuttaa erityisesti niiden perheiden elämää, joissa toinen puolisoista ei ole EU-kansalainen.)

[jen]

I live in Oulu, which I guess is part of the "bible belt". Even up here things seem to be relaxed. Through my university course and other NGO's I have met a few couples up here with children, none of them have had problems with schools or daycares. The adoption rights will hopefully soon be sorted but as it stands at the moment, both parents can have most parental rights e.g. both can make medical decisions as a parent.

[SediaAmore]

Hi. Ok, so I am a U.S. citizen, woman in a Finnish registered partnership to a Finnish woman. For the whole spiel, read this history viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29131#p262633.

To answer your first question: I do not believe there is a consensus on anything. However, I can say by my experience, I have never felt discriminated against or felt any negativity from any people, institutions, or services in Finland. Although, I do live in Helsinki which may or may not be more tolerant. I cannot say. Finland has anti-discrimination law that tries to protect individuals who are homosexual or in homosexual relationships. I think, perhaps, you would experience more problems by any lack of understanding of the language, unless you are fluent, than because of who you are in a relationship with.

As was previously pointed out, Finland has a registered partnership law. After completing all the requirements with regard to law and time, you will eventually be able to purchase Finnish citizenship. As far as I know, the process is equally cumbersome or simple (depending upon your temperament) to both heterosexual and homosexual couples.

I don't know nothing 'bout no play groups... not yet. See this group http://www.sateenkaariperheet.fi/english.html for info on Rainbow Families. I do not think that people are looked down upon for being in a same-sex relationship when approaching such institutions. Although, I do not have any experience in this area. At the fertility clinic and at the neuvola or doctor's visits or the family classes we have been at, we have not been looked down upon. They just ask me if I understand Finnish but otherwise they treat me like a normal person.IMO, you could take your kids there dressed in a hulu outfit and cowboy boots and not get a second glance. Finnish people just seem to let people be who they are without casting any obvious judgments upon them.

Now this next bit, may be totally biased because I have never been an American patriot and so it shall be laced with heavy bias. Honey, stay in Finland. America will not be conducive to nothing. How can your Suomen neitti immigrate to the USA? What would it be based upon? The USA does not have a federal law that recognizes same-sex partners' for purposes of immigration. In fact, the USA has this law, Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) on it books which in Section 3 excludes legally married same-sex couples from any federal law or program in which marriage is a factor. That means you do not have a right to sponsor a life partner for immigration benefits. So, your Finn will have to be lucky and win the green card lottery or have a job that would allow her to get an employer which would sponsor her for a visa, or some other sort of subterfuge. Keep in mind that when one seeks a temporary visa one has to prove they intend to move back permanently to their home country. If the US officials find out she is in a partnership with you they might disallow a temp visa based upon that. On the positive side, this section has been challenged and this bill has been introduced; Uniting American Families Act, which would seek to end this discrimination. This bill has been introduced several times to no avail. However, hopefully, change will come sooner now.

At this time, the situation regarding parent status for both of the individuals in the the relationship who are having a child is quite perilous. For example, my spouse is pregnant and when it is born I will not be considered the child's parent in the eyes of the Finnish law. The most I can get will be a weak custodianship. I will have no recourse if my partner dies or if something else goes South. However, this topic is currently being discussed in the Finnish parliament. Hopefully, maybe me olemme lucky and it will pass. If it does it will be added to the adoption law.

So, as far as I have experienced Finnish people have taken my homosexuality in stride, never skipping a beat, never treating me any differently than anybody else. Our relationship, my residence has all been done honestly and openly in Finland. In the USA, when we lived there it had to be kept secret, we just portrayed her as a student; (her with her BA degree) taking classes at a community college to be able to get a temporary visa.