Dual citizen seeking to do military service

hovistro · Post by **hovistro** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:02 am

Hello Finlandforum!

I am a citizen of both Finland and the United States, and have lived in the latter my entire life (as well as being born there). I'd like to do my military service as I'm now eighteen, but unfortunately I do not speak Finnish. Are there options available for Finnish citizens living elsewhere to do their military service if they wish to, especially those who do not have a firm grasp of the language?

I've come across some posts here that are related

https://www.finlandforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=36397
https://www.finlandforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=63745
https://www.finlandforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=65048

and there seems to be quite a bit of conflicting information. Is there an English-speaking division? Do non-Finnish/Swedish speakers still go to Santahamina? Or do they mix non-speakers in with Finnish speakers now? Are there options to further learn Finnish (rather than just studying independently) during down time?

I'm very interested in carrying out my conscription, but I'm a bit conflicted due to the language barrier. I do not want to be a hindrance if placed in a Finnish-speaking division. I've been working on learning on my own here in the US, but my progression has been minimal. I've seen horror stories ( https://www.finlandforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=554 ) posted here, but then threads like this ( https://www.finlandforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=38085 ) make me want to go through with it.

Any advice or insight would be greatly appreciated!

-hovistro

**Sponsor:**

Flossy1978 · Post by **Flossy1978** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:55 pm

From what I've read from this site, you will be put with the other people who can't speak Finnish well, or don't speak it at all.

I think it's great you are coming here to do this. It'll be a wonderful experience for you, I am sure

tuulen · Post by **tuulen** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:27 am

Military service is good for you and is the right thing to do. I did my service in US Army but I am sure that Finnish Army service is quite similar. I enlisted in US Army at age 18, and you at age 18 are perfectly qualified to join Finnish Army. The Army is going to put you through hell, all kinds of stress, but after all of that you will become a genuine citizen.

betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:53 pm

What do you mean with division? The majority of people and conscripts in Santahamina are still Finnish speaking. However, on the platoon/group level you might find that they have put foreign language speakers together.

hovistro · Post by **hovistro** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:17 pm

betelgeuse wrote:What do you mean with division? The majority of people and conscripts in Santahamina are still Finnish speaking. However, on the platoon/group level you might find that they have put foreign language speakers together.

Perhaps division was the wrong word. I meant more what you mentioned, where the non-Finnish speakers are grouped at a platoon/group level. I'm going to contact the embassy today and ask if such a thing is available. I wasn't sure if they had a platoon/group designated for it, or if they assign non-Finnish speakers to regular Finnish-speaking platoons/groups

amerilain · Post by **amerilain** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:28 pm

I'm Finnish/American and completed my Finnish military service January - July 2013 at Santahamina, 1JK. I didn't speak more than 5 words of Finnish before enlisting. There were about 8-10 other guys in my company, dual citizens from around the world, who also didn't speak the language. It was annoying not understanding what was being said during lectures and lessons, but the leaders were accommodating and always let a fellow conscript translate for us.

70% those you interact with in the Finnish Military, especially if they're under 30, will speak excellent English. Leaders, Captains, sergeants, etc, as a general rule, almost all speak English. Anytime, live rounds are used, or there is a chance of someone getting hurt, the drill leader will ask who among the group doesn't speak Finnish. Those guys will be grouped together and receive instruction in English. Other times, everything is Finnish, but it's almost always simple !"#¤% that you can pick up on after awhile. It does get boring, though, when you're line up for a ceremony and need to stand at attention while listening to the Colonel speak gibberish for an hour. Just a warning...

Don't sweat the language barrier. You will be surprised at how many non-finnish speakers now serve in the military. If you have the chance, do it. I loved the experience and all of the other guys who stuck it out and didn't go home early also did. Plus I now have an excellent vocabulary of curse words and useless army commands. You most likely won't learn a ton of Finnish, but you will have an awesome experience and make some great friends. Do it man!

Another piece of advice; Reach out to the social worker on base right away. She/he will help you figure !"#¤% out like receiving benefits from KELA, travel reimbursements, housing, etc. When I was enlisted, she told me that the army is changing due to many more enlisted dual-citizen conscripts. There may be new services available to you like Finnish classes, or a foreign conscript apartment (for when you have leave from base).

Best of luck!

tuulen · Post by **tuulen** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:11 pm

amerilain wrote:but you will have an awesome experience and make some great friends. Do it man!

+1

hovistro · Post by **hovistro** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:33 am

amerilain wrote:I'm Finnish/American and completed my Finnish military service January - July 2013 at Santahamina, 1JK. I didn't speak more than 5 words of Finnish before enlisting. There were about 8-10 other guys in my company, dual citizens from around the world, who also didn't speak the language. It was annoying not understanding what was being said during lectures and lessons, but the leaders were accommodating and always let a fellow conscript translate for us.

70% those you interact with in the Finnish Military, especially if they're under 30, will speak excellent English. Leaders, Captains, sergeants, etc, as a general rule, almost all speak English. Anytime, live rounds are used, or there is a chance of someone getting hurt, the drill leader will ask who among the group doesn't speak Finnish. Those guys will be grouped together and receive instruction in English. Other times, everything is Finnish, but it's almost always simple !"#¤% that you can pick up on after awhile. It does get boring, though, when you're line up for a ceremony and need to stand at attention while listening to the Colonel speak gibberish for an hour. Just a warning...

Don't sweat the language barrier. You will be surprised at how many non-finnish speakers now serve in the military. If you have the chance, do it. I loved the experience and all of the other guys who stuck it out and didn't go home early also did. Plus I now have an excellent vocabulary of curse words and useless army commands. You most likely won't learn a ton of Finnish, but you will have an awesome experience and make some great friends. Do it man!

Another piece of advice; Reach out to the social worker on base right away. She/he will help you figure !"#¤% out like receiving benefits from KELA, travel reimbursements, housing, etc. When I was enlisted, she told me that the army is changing due to many more enlisted dual-citizen conscripts. There may be new services available to you like Finnish classes, or a foreign conscript apartment (for when you have leave from base).

Best of luck!

Thank you so much for sharing! I'd love to talk to you through PM/some form of instant messaging since you did your service so recently and you were in a very similar situation. I have a list of questions a mile long, so I hope you don't mind if I ask a couple here!

I contacted the embassy and after a bit of back and forth, the lady I spoke to recommended I contact the FDF directly so they could answer my more in-depth questions. Can you tell me about the process you went through when you looked into doing your service? What information do you need to provide aside from citizenship related material? Medical records? What sort of questions were you asking? How old were you when you enlisted? I'm glad to hear that non-Finnish speakers are pulled aside for an English rundown so they can participate in drills - I was looking forward to those and was worried that non-speakers would be assigned potato peeling duty in the kitchen

I understand that there will be times where the language barrier poses an issue, but it's very nice to hear that your experience was a pleasant one despite it. Thanks for the tip about the social worker on base as well. I will certainly sign up for Finnish classes if they are available. By the way, are you allowed to bring anything with you when going on base? If there aren't classes available, I was hoping I could bring the materials I've been using to study Finnish on my own (workbooks etc.)

Again, thank you for providing some insight and talking about your time there. I'm very grateful!

tuulen · Post by **tuulen** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:52 am

hovistro wrote:I contacted the embassy and after a bit of back and forth, the lady I spoke to recommended I contact the FDF directly so they could answer my more in-depth questions.

Simples. You go to the FDF and say that you want to volunteer.

The FDF will then determine whether or not you qualify, which you probably do.

That is the way to get the job done.

And best of luck to you with your time in the service!

amerilain · Post by **amerilain** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:01 am

I was in touch directly with the military. Aside from pointing me in the right direction, the NY and LA consulates weren't much of a help in the process of enlisting.

Basically, after getting in touch with the correct military office (the consulate helped me out with that), they had me fill out three forms: a Medical examination, a Questionnaire on Military Service and for Examination of Health, and a Declaration by a Person Possessing the Citizenship of More Than One Country With Regard to Military Service.

I went to my doctor and had check-up. He filled out the medical examination form and I filled out the rest. Sent them off and heard back a few months later after they were reviewed. I think they do they do this 2x a year. In this case, they reviewed my records in September for service beginning in January.

All and all, it was an easy process but complicated a little due to a few language barriers. If a relative or friend of yours speaks Finnish and is willing to translate some letters and documents, the whole process will be much easier. All of the three forms listed above, by the way, are available in English.

As far as what to to bring:
extra wool socks and liners
extra underwear
warm shooting gloves (black)
a head lamp
protein powder/bars
smart phone/tablet with internet access
cigarettes and snus (bring some good American tobacco and perhaps make some friends and money)
among other things I'm sure...

But don't bring too much at first. I was "that guy" who showed up on day one with 2 suitcases. You don't need any more than your documents, toiletries, and a few personal items. Getting to base on the first day is a little stressful and it's best not to have too much with you. After your first leave, you'll have a chance to go home (or where ever home is for you in Finland) and get the rest of your stuff. Bringing your books should be no problem.

Let me know if you have other questions.

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