Religion, or lack thereof?

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tuulen
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Re: Religion, or lack thereof?

Post by tuulen » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:16 am

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Last edited by tuulen on Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:07 am, edited 1 time in total.



Re: Religion, or lack thereof?

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Jukka Aho
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Re: Religion, or lack thereof?

Post by Jukka Aho » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:55 am

sysyphus wrote:
Jukka Aho wrote:maybe “sects” rather than “cults”. Or depends on your definition of “cult”..
I take the classical definition of a cult; followers of an unorthodox religious sect who often live outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader. Nokia's revival would certainly qualify!
I take it you mean Tapani Koivuniemi’s religious society, not Nokia Revival (Nokia Missio)?
sysyphus wrote:The other denominations seem quite out of the ordinary. Nothing you wouldn't expect in any other developed country. As long as they don't exert any political influence, it isn't a problem, IMHO.
Laestadians are said to do that to some degree in the local politics of northern Finland. I have no first-hand experience on that, though. They typically vote for the Centre Party and the National Coalition Party.
sysyphus wrote:Do the Jehovah's Witnesses go about knocking on people's doors, handing out pamphlets, preaching their way of life?
Yes, it’s the same as everywhere, and the same publications — only translated to Finnish.
sysyphus wrote:The wikipedia articles on Jussi Halla-aho were the most intriguing of the lot.
He’s a controversial figure. Some more or less admire him as a person who sidesteps the political correctness and consensus of the bigger, more established political parties and who has made it possible to discuss topics and question immigration policies and “official” immigration ideologies in ways which would have been considered taboos in public discussion still some years ago. Some others think he’s a dangerous, misguiding, venomous agitator one step away from Hitler and hate him with vengeance. The truth probably lies somewhere in-between.
sysyphus wrote:Jussi's stance on Muhammed being a pedophile could not have been any truer. [...] But Jussi goes on to make sweeping statements like 'Islam is a religion of Pedophilia' (wikipedia), which is erroneous and not to be expected from an academician.
I think that claim should be taken in the context of the blog entry in which it was originally published. The original blog entry was essentially a public letter to the State Prosecutor Mika Illman where Halla-aho was deliberately hanging out some “baits” for him to test his hypothesis of the limits of freedom of speech in the Finnish society and to highlight the possible biases the State Prosecutor or the judicial system might have. Whether he now got the confirmation he was originally seeking for or whether the original “test” was flawed in some ways... well, you can decide for yourself. The original blog entry has been translated into English. It can be found by searching for the English title “A couple of baits for Mika Illman”.
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enkeligod
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Re: Religion, or lack thereof?

Post by enkeligod » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:54 am

Sysyphus, you do no need to break your head to speak Finnish language as the law is relaxing a bit.


Helsinki to stop requiring Finnish of cleaners

The city of Helsinki will no longer demand a good knowledge of Finnish of employees who don’t need it to do their jobs.
Does a cleaner need to converse in fluent Finnish? Helsinki’s deputy mayor, Ritva Viljanen, says no.

“Interaction with customers is very limited in carrying out the job. It doesn’t require particularly advanced language skills. Exceedingly strict language requirements can easily slip into discriminatory principles,” Viljanen points out.

The city wants to promote itself as an equal opportunity employer.

Source: Ylenews

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Pursuivant
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Re: Religion, or lack thereof?

Post by Pursuivant » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:05 am

Do the Jehovah's Witnesses go about knocking on people's doors, handing out pamphlets, preaching their way of life?
Yes, but a mad scientist did some genetic splicing with Norwegian heavy musicians, an now we have people knocking at your door telling you to go to hell :lol:
My mum, though, is always going on about how it'll damage my liver or worsen my ulcers n stuff. But then she don't know I smoke like a chimney and that is more certain of upsetting my ulcers
You shouldn't tell your mum that you are going to study "how to start a business" in Finland, you'll be needing a full ass-transplant.
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."

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Pursuivant
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Re: Religion, or lack thereof?

Post by Pursuivant » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:06 am

“Interaction with customers is very limited in carrying out the job. It doesn’t require particularly advanced language skills. Exceedingly strict language requirements can easily slip into discriminatory principles,” Viljanen points out.
Oh, they're just following in the footsteps of YLE. i mean its evident to work for their English pages you don't need to speak any.
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."

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sysyphus
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Re: Religion, or lack thereof?

Post by sysyphus » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:43 pm

enkeligod wrote:Sysyphus, you do no need to break your head to speak Finnish language as the law is relaxing a bit.


Helsinki to stop requiring Finnish of cleaners

The city of Helsinki will no longer demand a good knowledge of Finnish of employees who don’t need it to do their jobs.
Does a cleaner need to converse in fluent Finnish? Helsinki’s deputy mayor, Ritva Viljanen, says no.

“Interaction with customers is very limited in carrying out the job. It doesn’t require particularly advanced language skills. Exceedingly strict language requirements can easily slip into discriminatory principles,” Viljanen points out.

The city wants to promote itself as an equal opportunity employer.

Source: Ylenews
Thankfully, finding a job isn't one of my concerns (although it seems I am a rarity, feel sorry for the people in the job section). Free tuition means I can live like a boss and partayyy my socksss off! :D Would have to do some compulsory job placement as part of my degree but I am guessing that would be in an English speaking environment since my DP is in English. I am worried about not being able to integrate in society, find myself some kickass Finnish buds. You gotta do in Rome as Romans do you know :(
P.S. I would NEVER work as a cleaner even if they paid me in gold!
Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder

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sysyphus
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Re: Religion, or lack thereof?

Post by sysyphus » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:51 pm

Pursuivant wrote:
Do the Jehovah's Witnesses go about knocking on people's doors, handing out pamphlets, preaching their way of life?
Yes, but a mad scientist did some genetic splicing with Norwegian heavy musicians, an now we have people knocking at your door telling you to go to hell :lol:
My mum, though, is always going on about how it'll damage my liver or worsen my ulcers n stuff. But then she don't know I smoke like a chimney and that is more certain of upsetting my ulcers
You shouldn't tell your mum that you are going to study "how to start a business" in Finland, you'll be needing a full ass-transplant.
She knows -_- As long as its a BBA (bachelors in business administration) she is fine. She has made me promise that I'd work my arse off towards a transfer to Häaga-Helia after the first semester. I am confident that I'll manage to do so with considerable ease.
Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder

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sysyphus
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Re: Religion, or lack thereof?

Post by sysyphus » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:08 pm

Jukka Aho wrote: that claim should be taken in the context of the blog entry in which it was originally published...The original blog entry has been translated into English. It can be found by searching for the English title “A couple of baits for Mika Illman”.
Let me read up on that and I'll get back to you.

Regarding the polarising opinions about the man, the world exists in contrasting halves. Moral and immoral, black and white, night and day, ying and yang and the list goes on. It is a bit of an exaggeration comparing him to a German suffering from an Aryan-superiority complex. The world has learnt its lesson anyways - even the Germans too for that matter lol and they still haven't managed to rid themselves of the miasma of guilt. I mean look at Angela Merkel. My personal feeling is that the only reason the chancellor remains stubbornly committed to a unified Europe and by extension continues to bail out countries like Greece, who have only themselves to blame, is because of a subconscious need to make up for their Nazi past. It's as if the Germans feel they owe to rest of Europe and see it as their path to salvation.
Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder

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sysyphus
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Re: Religion, or lack thereof?

Post by sysyphus » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:11 pm

Pursuivant wrote:
Do the Jehovah's Witnesses go about knocking on people's doors, handing out pamphlets, preaching their way of life?
Yes, but a mad scientist did some genetic splicing with Norwegian heavy musicians, an now we have people knocking at your door telling you to go to hell :lol:
My mum, though, is always going on about how it'll damage my liver or worsen my ulcers n stuff. But then she don't know I smoke like a chimney and that is more certain of upsetting my ulcers
You shouldn't tell your mum that you are going to study "how to start a business" in Finland, you'll be needing a full ass-transplant.
And Pursuivant, stop trolling! :P
Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder

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Pursuivant
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Re: Religion, or lack thereof?

Post by Pursuivant » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:12 am

P.S. I would NEVER work as a cleaner even if they paid me in gold!
Ah, but you know what the BBA asked the engineer?
-Do you want fries with that?
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."

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sysyphus
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Re: Religion, or lack thereof?

Post by sysyphus » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:08 pm

Pursuivant wrote:
P.S. I would NEVER work as a cleaner even if they paid me in gold!
Ah, but you know what the BBA asked the engineer?
-Do you want fries with that?
Applies only to BBA's trying to make a life in Finland. I graduate and move to pastures anew or back home where I shall be treated like a boss! :D
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sysyphus
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Re: Religion, or lack thereof?

Post by sysyphus » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:13 pm

Cory wrote:
sysyphus wrote:P.S. I would NEVER work as a cleaner even if they paid me in gold!
This is a dumb ass statement on a board full of students who really do have to find some way of supporting themselves whilst they are here.

Respect is earned. If you want to fit in to the mainstream with the natives (and non-natives), loose the attitude.
I didn't mean to sound elitist, my apologies if anyone got offended. Those students who really do need to find way to support themselves are actually the ones who SHOULDNT be NEEDING a way to support themselves. The only reason the government grants them a residence permit is because they have sufficient resources to finance their stay. If they don't, then they are cheating the system, abusing it and are BIG FAT LIARS!
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Rip
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Re: Religion, or lack thereof?

Post by Rip » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:05 pm

sysyphus wrote:I mean look at Angela Merkel. My personal feeling is that the only reason the chancellor remains stubbornly committed to a unified Europe
May I point out that Hitler also was committed to unified Europe under German rule.
and by extension continues to bail out countries like Greece
Greece hasn't been bailed out. It as deeply in debt as ever. What has been receiving bailouts are the large European banks, especially German banks. Merkel has been fairly successful in finding helpful dimwitted fools from other countries, so that whole bill would not be paid by German taxpayers.
who have only themselves to blame
They have plenty to blame on their own behaviour, but for nothing more than for the decision to join this ill-conceived currency union in the first place. Currency union that is trimmed to serve German interests. When Germany had problems in the previous decade, the monetary policy offered them support (the economic and property bubbles in the European periphery it helped to generate were of no concern). Now that that periphery is deeply depressed, keeping German inflation down is the only real concern.
It's as if the Germans feel they own rest of Europe
Fixed that for you.

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sysyphus
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Re: Religion, or lack thereof?

Post by sysyphus » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:11 pm

Rip wrote:May I point out that Hitler also was committed to unified Europe under German rule.
Yes, you said it right, a Europe unified under the misguided might of the swastika. I'd say that's positively different from what Merkel is aiming at. Thankfully, we have evolved from waging war on the battlefield to dominating others in a market economy.
Rip wrote:Greece hasn't been bailed out. It as deeply in debt as ever. What has been receiving bailouts are the large European banks, especially German banks. Merkel has been fairly successful in finding helpful dimwitted fools from other countries, so that whole bill would not be paid by German taxpayers.
But didn't they get a bailout package approved after the elections, with all those crippling austerity sanctions? Whatever may happen, it is just a restructuring of the debt, it goes nowhere. A circular cycle which would never break unless the Greeks produce the money themselves and pay it off.
Rip wrote:They have plenty to blame on their own behaviour, but for nothing more than for the decision to join this ill-conceived currency union in the first place. Currency union that is trimmed to serve German interests...
What about the unbridled spending sprees successive governments went on after adopting the Euro? It kinda got to their head, didn't it? This debt didn't accumulate overnight. It took years of overspending and brushing the problem under the carpet.
I can totally empathize with the German taxpayers' revolt at the whole mess. Why should their hard earned money be used to rescue other people? Finland has arguably the second strongest economy. How do the Finns feel about having their earnings sustain people from other nations?
Rip wrote:It's as if the Germans feel they own rest of Europe.
Fixed that for you.
Lol! An insight into the collective European opinion? You are right Germany would suffer from hypeinflation if the Euro was abandoned or the Germans were to leave it voluntary, as some economists are now suggesting. But see their economy is a behemoth, and it would swallow whole all such shocks in the long run. I reckon it is them who should leave Euro for the greater good. They can cope with reintroducing the Deutsche Mark, other weaker states can't.

My knowledge of the Euro meltdown is at best rudimentary. Please correct any erroneous notions I have, as I am sure there'd be many :)
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Rip
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Re: Religion, or lack thereof?

Post by Rip » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:33 am

sysyphus wrote: But didn't they get a bailout package approved after the elections, with all those crippling austerity sanctions?
Greece is more heavily in debt that it was at the beginning of the first austerity package and "bailout". The got some money to pay off some of the older debts, therefore the bailout was a bailout of the banks that got their exposure reduced at the expense of the European tax payers. Greece itself is in even deeper hole than they were 1.5 years ago
Whatever may happen, it is just a restructuring of the debt, it goes nowhere.
It goes to the debt heaven when you do a reasonable restructuring (writing off) of the debt based on the fact that the party that borrowed the money is bankrupt.
A circular cycle which would never break unless the Greeks produce the money themselves and pay it off.
Well, they will need their own currency anyway to regain competitiveness. That is what they need, getting people back to work and debt's written off to a level that is manageable. They are getting neither in this bailout regime.
Rip wrote:They have plenty to blame on their own behaviour, but for nothing more than for the decision to join this ill-conceived currency union in the first place. Currency union that is trimmed to serve German interests...
What about the unbridled spending sprees successive governments went on after adopting the Euro? It kinda got to their head, didn't it? This debt didn't accumulate overnight. It took years of overspending and brushing the problem under the carpet.
Goverment of Greece did plenty of bad things itself, but with an own floating currency the interest rates in 2000's would not have been in those for them ridiculously low levels as they were, and changes in exchange rates would have automatically brought more balance to the economy (relatvie wage levels, current account etc.). Both the boom and bust would have been much more muted.

Besides, in the big Euro crisis picture, Greece is only a small part. If it were question of only Greece this Frankestein's creation could still survive, but it is not. In Spain and Ireland prior to 2008 they maintained the rules of the old "stability pact" better than they did in Germany itself.
I can totally empathize with the German taxpayers' revolt at the whole mess. Why should their hard earned money be used to rescue other people?
As I said, they are really rescuing their own banks.
How do the Finns feel about having their earnings sustain people from other nations?
Especially to keep the bonuses to bankers roll on? If I say that considerably better people than our current prime minister have been shot for treason in this country, do I make myself clear enough?
Rip wrote:You are right Germany would suffer from hypeinflation if the Euro was abandoned or the Germans were to leave it voluntary, as some economists are now suggesting.
Hyperinflation? No, I do not definitely think so. (Which economists by the way, probably some who have been forecasting consistently poorly for past few years at least?). Germany leaving euro would see at least initial strengthening of the new Deutsch Mark, and the corresponding dampening of their own economy.
I reckon it is them who should leave Euro for the greater good. They can cope with reintroducing the Deutsche Mark, other weaker states can't.
Well, the weaker states can't cope with the current regime. But I tend to agree, that the transition could be more orderly if the stronger countries, like Germany and Finland, left euro first. Greece should have debt write off's anyway, most of the other "olive countries" could probably then deflate themselves from the current mess.


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