Changes promised to the position of unmarried widowers

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Hank W.
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Changes promised to the position of unmarried widowers

Post by Hank W. » Wed Aug 27, 2003 3:54 pm

Ok, this might touch a few people here:

http://www.helsinginsanomat.fi/tuoreet/ ... 1299269405

The thing is, at present, the Finnish law, when it comes to inheritance, doesn't recognize cohabitation. This means, if you step on a dogpoop and crack your skull on the sidewalk, your spouse has no right to your assets. Furthermore, even if you have a mutual will made out, the spouse has to pay tax as a "non-relative".

So there is now a working group making out a draft proposal to recognice cohabitation in the law of inheritance. But meanwhile don't assume it will pass.


Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.

Changes promised to the position of unmarried widowers

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AndyJ
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Post by AndyJ » Sat Aug 30, 2003 10:27 am

Yes, this is an issue for my partner and myself. When we came here it took some time for me to get my henkilötunnus issued. In the meantime we wanted to buy a house. So we had to put the house just in her name, which means I have no legal rights to any of that unless we get married at which point I will be entitled to a half share.

However, they are also looking at implementing a law to allow spouses to keep all of any assets they bring into a marriage. As the house is my partner's on paper, that would mean even if we got married I would still be entitled to zip. This is particularly irksome as I was the main breadwinner back in England and most of the investment into the house came from my own earnings. Just got to make sure the dear girl stays with us in the land of the living I guess! :lol:
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godenies
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Post by godenies » Sat Aug 30, 2003 9:53 pm

Hmmm.. why can't people just get married like in the good old days...

Mari

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Post by AndyJ » Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:49 am

Good question. I'm certainly in favour. But people apparently have become more advanced these days, so they can now screw up their lives in many more interesting ways! Cynical? Moi??
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why (not) marry??

Post by Marjan » Sun Sep 07, 2003 1:57 pm

Or they are happy the way they are (living with their partner)...
You don't have to be any less commited and if you look at marriages nowadays, well the average break up rate here in the UK is 10.9 years (It was in the paper the other day... I'm not that desperate :D )
Oh and then of course there's the whole religious aspect.. But just let people make their own choices.

I think there are some countries in which you can go to a legal person and have a "living together agreement" made up, which is recognised by law. Then again I'm no expert..

Marjan.

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Hank W.
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Post by Hank W. » Sun Sep 07, 2003 2:37 pm

Yes, the legalities are different in almost every EU country - not to mention then outside the EU.

A matrimionial agreement as well as a divorce in Finland can be made without the help of a lawyer, just submitting the right-looking papers in the right order to the right address.

But, as it comes to inheritance law, please do take the stuff in consideration. Even if you are in your prime and "nothing will happen" it only requires some daft tourist wanting to feed peanuts to a moose to chase it in front of your car.
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.

gavin

Post by gavin » Sun Sep 07, 2003 3:25 pm

godenies wrote:Hmmm.. why can't people just get married like in the good old days... Mari
Hm. Why get married? I think the value of getting married has deminished significantly, particularly if you look at the divorce stats.

Mari and I have been together for 9 years now, and we are perfectly happy as we are. We are not religious, and it certianly does not make sense for us to get married just to solve some technical administrative issues.

Although I've considered changing my name... just try spelling my URL in Finnish, over a patchy network connection in the middle of nothing. :wink: too many C's K's and G's in there :?

Cheers
Gavin

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Post by Hank W. » Sun Sep 07, 2003 3:30 pm

Yes, indeed, but would Gavin Cruikshank be any better as 'Kaapo Kuikkahanko' ?
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Post by Samppa » Sun Sep 07, 2003 7:52 pm

godenies wrote:Hmmm.. why can't people just get married like in the good old days...

Mari
Getting married in good old days... Then I advise you to read a good book of a Finnish writer "Landing matches" of Maju Lasila.

- Why don't you marry Jussi? He has 10 horses and 20 cows. Also a dozen pigs and a lot of chickens.

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Post by godenies » Sun Sep 07, 2003 8:12 pm

Yes, I'm old-fashioned... I thought the whole idea is to find your soulmate, fall in love and get married. You share everything and promise to cherish your love till death to you part. I think people just give up easily, they get bored and instead of trying to solve the problems in their marriage they just file for a divorce. I'm not going to start critisizing anyone, if you're happy with just living together then go ahead. BUT I don't think you should have the same legal rights as married people do. I'm not religious myself, but to me a marriage is a promise of something permanent and I really hope that there still are people left to respect that.

Mari

gavin

Post by gavin » Sun Sep 07, 2003 8:38 pm

godenies wrote:Yes, I'm old-fashioned... I thought the whole idea is to find your soulmate, fall in love and get married. You share everything and promise to cherish your love till death to you part. Mari
Well, all that; yes. We just don't need a piece of paper to confirm that to ourselves, or anyone else.

Maybe it's as much to do with the fact that Mari and I are quite strongly non-conformist :wink:

But as you say, if marriage is for you, good luck!

I disagree with you though that we should not have the same rights as a married couple. Mari and I have lived together for 9 years as husband and wife all over the world. If either one of us were killed, should it not be automatic that the other inherits the others stuff?

I'd hate to think that someone other than Mari would get mine.

Cheers
Gavin

gavin

Post by gavin » Sun Sep 07, 2003 8:43 pm

Hank W. wrote:Yes, indeed, but would Gavin Cruikshank be any better as 'Kaapo Kuikkahanko' ?
:D A case in point:

Spot the spelling mistake in Hanks text... :lol:

Actually, one client has come up with a good alternative name for me. I'm not changing my real name (Gavin is a Good Welsh name, and I kind of like it :wink: ) but I'm seriously thinking of changing the company name.

I'll start a new thread with a poll :wink:

Cheers
Gavin CRUICKSHANK

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Post by arty fact » Sun Oct 05, 2003 7:38 pm

People in the past were not living such a romanticized dream as we think it today. Women especially had a weird position since ancient times. As the phallic culture hardy shattered in 20th century, women obtained a few rights (that nowadays burden them!). In past times a woman was classified as decent if she depended and related to her husband. The one that wanted to be free or had no choice (happening to remain free , the widow , the orphan for example) usually became involved in promiscuous affairs in order to survive. In ancient Greece, there were the wives (enslaved virtuously at home, meaning safety) and there were the "other ones", prostitutes of all kind. Hetairas were the most fortunate, because they were educated, approached art people, political ones, all important. Their power of influence was paid by their reputation. So... nowadays, the free woman seems very alike to the old prostitute, (sorry, that is the truth!), but is freedom (in this case- of cohabiting) better than the security (financial) offered by marriage? :idea:

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Post by AndyJ » Mon Oct 06, 2003 12:46 pm

I don't have a particular axe to grind with respect to marriage. I was previously married for 12 years, after living with my wife before we were married. Since I was divorced (not my choice by the way) I have lived with my current partner for 6 years. Personally I like being married. I want to make a commitment to my partner publicly, which is what marriage really is, after all. We will get married sometime, we have decided.

I wonder if the reason for the number of divorces is also the reason so many people choose not to get married in the first place now...that they want their "freedom" and are somehow uncomfortable to make such a commitment to one person. I don't know if that's it, but if it is, I am not at all sure that things are better now than they were previously. I see people giving up on a lot of things these days, which in the past they seemed to be more committed to. I have a feeling that people have become so wrapped up in the concept of fashion, that now they find it difficult to avoid changing things more often...their jobs, their homes, cars, partners?? Are we becoming more easily bored? And more inclined to "upgrade"?

I honestly don't know, but I would not be surprised if there wasn't at least some truth in that.

Make up your own minds of course, and make your own choices in life. Nobody (and I mean NOBODY) has the right to tell you how to live your live. Of course, sometimes we would be well-advised to listen to others and not always assume that we have the only solutions ourselves.

Oops...this seems to have turned into something of a lecture...sorry.
:oops:
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Post by arty fact » Tue Oct 07, 2003 2:12 pm

Who believes in "open marriage" concept?


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