Brit dad's access to child in Finland

lonesomecowboy · Post by **lonesomecowboy** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:47 pm

I am looking for some advice on what has become a tricky situation for my partner. He was married to his Finnish wife for some five years and they had a son, now eleven years old. They were divorced about eight or so years ago and his ex-wife moved back to Finland with their son. They were divorced in an English court (they were also married in the UK and his ex had lived and worked in the UK for about 20 years). Under the terms of the divorce, he was granted unlimited access to his son. He pays monthly maintenance too and has done since the divorce. When his son was small, he would visit him in Finland about once a year (with me as well, when we got together), plus have him over in the UK for about six weeks in summer, collecting and returning him to Finland. As his son got older, he started to do the Unaccompanied Minor flights, which he has been quite happy about for the past few years. This has been brilliant for us – we don't earn huge salaries and it has been incredibly expensive to book multiple flights to Finland to collect and return his son (he, quite rightly, pays for all his son's travel). Finland is a very expensive country to stay in, compared to where we live in the UK. His ex has married again and has two more children. She has been rather tricky over the years to pin down about dates when their son can come to the UK. He attends an international school and is fluent in English, so we feel his time in the UK is precious as it helps him to get in touch with his half English side and connect with his English family (grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc). We can therefore only see him in the Finnish school holidays, which is fair enough, but his mother has a habit of booking up camps and Finnish family holidays without discussing with my partner first (I have two daughters and we are confined to our whole family holidays - the children all get on really well - to the English school holidays, so we have a small window of opportunity to all go away before his son has to return to Finland at the beginning of August.) She booked up most of last year's summer holidays for Finnish events (camps, trips, holidays, etc) and we ended up having his son for just four weeks out of the twelve available in the summer holidays. He also came over for the new year, spending a week with us after Christmas.
His mother has become more and more difficult about letting her son come to the UK. They have an hour or so drive to the airport to drop him off, which she is never happy to do, but we have a two-hour drive to do the same in England! She will not let him travel here in the February half term or at Easter. She said that their son misses his friends and his hobbies - bike-riding, skiing, etc. In my mind, a father is much more important than going out on a bicycle! My partner and his son chat all the time via text and messenger - the boy is not a great one for talking on the phone! They have a great relationship and his son is a lovely, laid back boy when he is here. His mother is adamant that if we want to see more of the boy, we have to go to Finland - she will only let him travel this year for the four weeks in summer again as she has already booked up a whole range of summer activities to fill the rest of the school holidays. Both she and her husband work full time and she often complains about finding childcare so we offer to have her son for the whole holidays, but she won't have it! Our problem is that Finland is just so expensive for us and surely, if she has been sending her son to an international school to be fluent in English, she would want him to come to the UK. We obviously pay for everything for her son here, plus all his flights. To be honest, spending the four days of Easter in Finland for two of us would cost as much as a week-long family holiday in the UK for all of us, my children included! We have said to the mother that if he comes over here for those dates, we could go to Finland for a couple of weekends when it is not holidays and therefore not so expensive, but she won't have it.
My partner has tried to keep all this amicable, but it is getting more and more difficult. I know of other people in similar situations (not Finnish) where the child living with the mum abroad has to spend all the holidays with the dad in the UK. We haven't even asked for that - just some consideration, but at the moment, the mother is only letting her son come for those four weeks in summer and if we want to see him more, we have to go to Finland, which we can't afford to do. I get on well with the mother, but I just don't know what to do and I hate seeing my partner so upset. Can anyone offer any advice as to my partner's rights? He is loath to go down the legal road with all this as it would only inflame a tricky situation and, to be honest, we can't afford it, but surely he is entitled to see his son here in the UK more as his son is half English? He is not asking to see him in the UK for all the holidays, just maybe half of the summer holidays, one week at Christmas or New Year and Easter. Is that too much to ask?!

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rinso · Post by **rinso** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:18 pm

She said that their son misses his friends and his hobbies - bike-riding, skiing, etc.

This will become more and more important as he gets older, prepare yourself for an increased reluctance to come.

Can anyone offer any advice as to my partner's rights?

You said he had unlimited access. But that doesn't mean the father can demand visits to GB at his convenience.
If the mother is unreasonable and you cannot negotiate a solution, you can ask mediation from the local childcare office.
But they will look at the interest of the child, not that of the mother or the father. If the son favours his friends above a trip to England you might not get what you're looking for.

lonesomecowboy · Post by **lonesomecowboy** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:37 pm

Hi rinso
Thanks for the reply. We are very aware that his son will want to spend more time with his friends as he gets older - we see this time while he is still so young as very limited and really want to make the most of it before the teenage years set in. Also, the trips to the UK are definitely not at my partner's convenience - we are limited to school holidays, of course, and what his mother wants to do. I think the mediation you suggest is a very good idea - do you have any insight into how we go about doing this? Much appreciated!

leisl · Post by **leisl** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:58 pm

The rights you need to confirm are not with Finland, but with the UK. The legal decision was applied in the UK. Finland will probably not interfere with a UK ruling.

Do you have the exact wording of the legalese from the original court case. Does it specify the child will live in Finland, or just that the child will live with the mother, and does it mention who has parental rights or custody, this is not the same as "the child will live with". All these things make a difference to your husband's rights. If Finland isn't mentioned he may well have the right to take the kid to the UK permanently or it may give him grounds to send a polite legal letter to the mother asking for a more organised schedule of spending time with his child. Either way I think he should be asking for legal help locally.

Oh and BOTH parents should be paying for the flights. Not one.

betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:32 am

leisl wrote:The rights you need to confirm are not with Finland, but with the UK. The legal decision was applied in the UK. Finland will probably not interfere with a UK ruling.

Do you have the exact wording of the legalese from the original court case. Does it specify the child will live in Finland, or just that the child will live with the mother, and does it mention who has parental rights or custody, this is not the same as "the child will live with". All these things make a difference to your husband's rights. If Finland isn't mentioned he may well have the right to take the kid to the UK permanently or it may give him grounds to send a polite legal letter to the mother asking for a more organised schedule of spending time with his child. Either way I think he should be asking for legal help locally.

I don't have time to delve into Brussels II and family law to provide legal references. However, I highly doubt taking the kid to UK permanently would be considered in the best interest of the child after all these years.

lonesomecowboy · Post by **lonesomecowboy** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:36 am

Thanks all for replies. We will check out the exact wording of the UK divorce ruling, as suggested. We would not dream of trying to have my partner's son here permanently in the UK - he has his life and family in Finland and we completely respect that. My partner just wants to have the life and family his son has in the UK equally respected. It is currently treated as a nuisance. Our worry is that if we start going to Finland to see his son in the school holidays as his mother wishes, rather than him coming over here, it starts to set a precedent and she will cut his time in the UK further as it is easier for him to stay in Finland. We really welcome any suggestions and legal insights.

rinso · Post by **rinso** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:52 am

The rights you need to confirm are not with Finland, but with the UK. The legal decision was applied in the UK. Finland will probably not interfere with a UK ruling.

I understand that the situation exist for about 8 years now and is slowly deteriorating. It will be difficult to claim violation of rights after so many years. It has become an accepted situation.
Therefore I agree with Betelgeuse that EU regulations are now guiding in this situation. And I don't think they will interfere with the Finnish practice to give the interest of the child center stage.

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:12 am

Unfortunately the summers are so short in Finland that if you spend four weeks abroad, you've essentially missed the best part of the year here (in my opinion)! And it's true that Finnish families do pack a lot of stuff into those few weeks.

The timing is difficult. When my kids were small it would have suited me to send them to the UK (to their grandparents) at the beginning of the holidays (in June) but the school holidays in England don't start until the end of July so many of the child-friendly activities don't start until then. My parents complained that all the kids in their village were at school, the swimming pools were full of adults and the beaches were empty. I remember one rainy day taking them to see the release of a Star Wars movie in the afternoon and we were the only ones in the cinema.

It must also be difficult for the mum to explain to the boy's younger siblings why he gets the chance to go to the UK and not them. The children have grown up together and live as a family, and then during the summer holidays their big brother disappears for a whole month...

I think Cory's idea is really good and I agree that as the boy gets older he will be more assertive in making his own decisions (which could go either way as far as you are concerned).

I know one family (through my own kids) where the parents fought very hard for custody of their young children and the courts decided they would stay with the parent who lived abroad. The eldest returned to Finland when he turned 18 to study full-time here. He had made up his own mind what he wanted to do. Contrary to what some people said (above) I don't think the wishes of the children are always taken into account by the authorities. It is more complicated than that.

irnbru · Post by **irnbru** » Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:23 am

Try to avoid the legal route if at all possible. It takes ages, probably won't get you what you want (may even make it worse).

Oombongo · Post by **Oombongo** » Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:23 pm

Unfortunately she has more power on you in this case. Her country, "me mommy card" in her hand and obviously authorities will sympathize with her if you decide to take a legal route (unless she goes total cuckoo's nest) . Just sit tight and wait for the kid to grow up.

ajdias · Post by **ajdias** » Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:30 pm

As far as disputes go, the mother doesn't seem particularly unreasonable, just someone with a different point of view. What you should keep in mind is that while you and your SO can perfectly well recall the past and his (?) decision to allow her to move from the Uk and take the child with her, the mother has probably moved on and lives in another reality - one where divorced parents often get 4 weeks total summer holiday, where many kids have summer camps, and she does have a family of her own. Not saying she is right and you are wrong, just pointing how this goes, our memories are short, particularly when it does not suit us.
You seem tactful, so you may want to politely remind her that it was her decision to move away, to raise their child away from the father and his family, and, if that is the case, that he probably didn't want to force her to be miserable in a foreign country in order to be around her child (some sobbing stories from single parents in Finland, told from the first person prespective).

A couple of points:
In Finland, from the age of 12 a kid has a say on how he spends his time with his parents. Don't know about the legal framework, or even if/how it applies to this case.
You probably are aware of this, Finnish summer holiday is only 10 weeks long.

lonesomecowboy · Post by **lonesomecowboy** » Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:43 pm

Thanks so much to everyone who has taken the time to read and reply to my post - I really appreciate all the help and suggestions. I am extremely worried that my partner will be pushed out of his son's life and that his son will have less opportunities to enjoy his English side until he is old enough to make up his own mind. His mother is very settled with her new family and his stepdad seems a really nice guy. He is a Finn and doesn't speak English - but then our Finnish is appalling too, to be fair! I suppose our worry is that his mother really finds the English-ness an inconvenience in her new life and will block more and more visits here. When he is here in the UK, his mother is always getting in touch to let him know that they have bought him a new bike (and will send lots of pictures of it), or have booked an amazing holiday or camp, or bought a new pet - things that will want to make him return to Finland. But it isn't a competition. He loves his mum and he also loves his dad. We are obviously quite happy to visit him in Finland, but then it is all on her terms and she tries to set out an agenda of what to do and where to go when we do visit. My step son does have a lovely family that he enjoys seeing here and he gets on really well with my children and his cousins - we simply can't all travel to Finland in order to see him. However, I really like some of the suggestions here, such as having a friend come over with him. We really want to keep things as amicable as possible - it's obviously in nobody's interests to let this get out of hand. But it is getting hard!

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