Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?

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hbar
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:24 pm

Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?

Post by hbar » Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:42 pm

Hi all.

We had our hearts set on Finland a couple of years ago (after several visits) but unfortunately our house sale didn't complete in time and we couldn't move before Brexit happened.

The situation: Married couple, my wife has a degree in plantsmanship (horticulture) and I am a front end web dev who is learning software development. We have two children of primary school age who we want to go to school in Finland, and a new baby.

As i see it, we have some options:

1. I can learn Finnish to a good level and then try to apply for work. I don't have a degree or any formal computing qualifications but a good personal portfolio. I'm worried that it would be basically impossible since i'm up against Finnish people with degrees who are also basically bilingual.

2. I can learn Finnish to a good level and then try to get into university to study for a degree. I feel this is the easiest way, but i'm worried about how long it would take for me to sort visas for my family. I wouldn't want to be accepted and then keep having to defer because of visa problems and i cannot live apart from my family, even temporarily.

3. I can bring a huge chunk of money with me (more than 100k euros) to start a business.

How viable are all of these ideas for actually getting a residency permit and is there anything i've overlooked?

Thanks in advance.



Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?

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betelgeuse
Posts: 4003
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?

Post by betelgeuse » Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:10 am

hbar wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:42 pm
Hi all.

We had our hearts set on Finland a couple of years ago (after several visits) but unfortunately our house sale didn't complete in time and we couldn't move before Brexit happened.

The situation: Married couple, my wife has a degree in plantsmanship (horticulture) and I am a front end web dev who is learning software development. We have two children of primary school age who we want to go to school in Finland, and a new baby.

As i see it, we have some options:

1. I can learn Finnish to a good level and then try to apply for work. I don't have a degree or any formal computing qualifications but a good personal portfolio. I'm worried that it would be basically impossible since i'm up against Finnish people with degrees who are also basically bilingual.

2. I can learn Finnish to a good level and then try to get into university to study for a degree. I feel this is the easiest way, but i'm worried about how long it would take for me to sort visas for my family. I wouldn't want to be accepted and then keep having to defer because of visa problems and i cannot live apart from my family, even temporarily.

3. I can bring a huge chunk of money with me (more than 100k euros) to start a business.

How viable are all of these ideas for actually getting a residency permit and is there anything i've overlooked?

Thanks in advance.
1) Many IT companies work in English. You can already start looking.

2) Family members of students get decisions at the same time as the main applicant as long as all the applications have the embassy visit at the same time.

3) This would make it possible to create a solid entrepreneurship application from a financing perspective. However, you would need a business plan. The rules require that you can show the business will be profitable.

” Your business must be profitable. Your means of support must be secured by your income from your business. A Centre for Economic Development, Transport and the Environment (ELY Centre) will assess whether you meet these requirements.”

https://migri.fi/en/entrepreneur

Since you are interested in studying, you could start the business while studying and later swap the permit type.

hbar
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:24 pm

Re: Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?

Post by hbar » Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:21 am

betelgeuse wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:10 am
hbar wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:42 pm
Hi all.

We had our hearts set on Finland a couple of years ago (after several visits) but unfortunately our house sale didn't complete in time and we couldn't move before Brexit happened.

The situation: Married couple, my wife has a degree in plantsmanship (horticulture) and I am a front end web dev who is learning software development. We have two children of primary school age who we want to go to school in Finland, and a new baby.

As i see it, we have some options:

1. I can learn Finnish to a good level and then try to apply for work. I don't have a degree or any formal computing qualifications but a good personal portfolio. I'm worried that it would be basically impossible since i'm up against Finnish people with degrees who are also basically bilingual.

2. I can learn Finnish to a good level and then try to get into university to study for a degree. I feel this is the easiest way, but i'm worried about how long it would take for me to sort visas for my family. I wouldn't want to be accepted and then keep having to defer because of visa problems and i cannot live apart from my family, even temporarily.

3. I can bring a huge chunk of money with me (more than 100k euros) to start a business.

How viable are all of these ideas for actually getting a residency permit and is there anything i've overlooked?

Thanks in advance.
1) Many IT companies work in English. You can already start looking.

2) Family members of students get decisions at the same time as the main applicant as long as all the applications have the embassy visit at the same time.

3) This would make it possible to create a solid entrepreneurship application from a financing perspective. However, you would need a business plan. The rules require that you can show the business will be profitable.

” Your business must be profitable. Your means of support must be secured by your income from your business. A Centre for Economic Development, Transport and the Environment (ELY Centre) will assess whether you meet these requirements.”

https://migri.fi/en/entrepreneur

Since you are interested in studying, you could start the business while studying and later swap the permit type.
Thank you so much for your response.

Do you think it would be a problem for work that I have no degree for computing? To clarify: i would be willing to be the worm for a few years just to earn my stripes so wouldn't be averse to taking on lower paying junior roles etc.

I just don't want to go for that option and then be up against Finns with degrees meaning it's almost impossible.

Thanks again for your response it means a lot to us.

betelgeuse
Posts: 4003
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?

Post by betelgeuse » Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:09 pm

hbar wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:21 am

Thank you so much for your response.

Do you think it would be a problem for work that I have no degree for computing? To clarify: i would be willing to be the worm for a few years just to earn my stripes so wouldn't be averse to taking on lower paying junior roles etc.

I just don't want to go for that option and then be up against Finns with degrees meaning it's almost impossible.
Lack of a degree can be compensated with experience. There’s only time spent applying to lose to see how it goes.

hbar
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:24 pm

Re: Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?

Post by hbar » Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:51 pm

betelgeuse wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:09 pm
hbar wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:21 am

Thank you so much for your response.

Do you think it would be a problem for work that I have no degree for computing? To clarify: i would be willing to be the worm for a few years just to earn my stripes so wouldn't be averse to taking on lower paying junior roles etc.

I just don't want to go for that option and then be up against Finns with degrees meaning it's almost impossible.
Lack of a degree can be compensated with experience. There’s only time spent applying to lose to see how it goes.
I know i'm just an anonymous name on the internet but please understand your words have injected a real sense of optimism into our lives at a time where it's been difficult.

I thank you so much.

FinlandGirl
Posts: 789
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?

Post by FinlandGirl » Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:51 pm

hbar wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:42 pm
We have two children of primary school age who we want to go to school in Finland, and a new baby.
hbar wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:21 am
i would be willing to be the worm for a few years just to earn my stripes so wouldn't be averse to taking on lower paying junior roles etc.
The income requirement for a family of 5 is 2900 Euro per month after taxes.
hbar wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:42 pm
I am a front end web dev who is learning software development.
hbar wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:42 pm
I don't have a degree or any formal computing qualifications but a good personal portfolio.
hbar wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:21 am
I just don't want to go for that option and then be up against Finns with degrees meaning it's almost impossible.
hbar wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:21 am
Do you think it would be a problem for work that I have no degree for computing? To clarify: i would be willing to be the worm for a few years just to earn my stripes so wouldn't be averse to taking on lower paying junior roles etc.
Junior roles are for recent graduates from universities or vocational schools who do not yet have work experience.
After a few years of work experience you are senior, and the education background matters less.

In practice this means you can either get a senior position based on your personal portfolio, or no job offer at all.
hbar wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:42 pm
I can learn Finnish to a good level and then try to apply for work.
IT is the only field in Finland with a large amount of job opportunities that do not require Finnish.
If you start applying and fail to get any job offered the problem would be that your personal portfolio is unimpressive, not the lack of Finnish.
hbar wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:42 pm
2. I can learn Finnish to a good level and then try to get into university to study for a degree. I feel this is the easiest way, but i'm worried about how long it would take for me to sort visas for my family. I wouldn't want to be accepted and then keep having to defer because of visa problems and i cannot live apart from my family, even temporarily.
You should apply for an English-language UAS Bachelor, learning Finnish from scratch to a level sufficient for studying in the language while living abroad is unlikely to be fast if you manage to do it at all.
Application period for studies starting autumn 2022 will be around January 2022, entrance exams in spring 2022.
As already mentioned, your family can move with you immediately if they apply together with you.

hbar
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:24 pm

Re: Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?

Post by hbar » Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:58 pm

FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:51 pm
The income requirement for a family of 5 is 2900 Euro per month after taxes.

You should apply for an English-language UAS Bachelor, learning Finnish from scratch to a level sufficient for studying in the language while living abroad is unlikely to be fast if you manage to do it at all.
Application period for studies starting autumn 2022 will be around January 2022, entrance exams in spring 2022.
As already mentioned, your family can move with you immediately if they apply together with you.
Do you know if there's a minimum amount of money you'd have to bring with you to study, in my situation? Like an amount per year per person?

The only thing with learning Finnish first would be that there appear to be many many more degree programs in my topic of choice (computer science/information technology) - i'm not sure pinning my hopes on going to one of two choices in these fields that teach in English would be a smart move since they could easily reject me.

I've studied a bit of Finnish before now and i didn't find it that difficult - seems logical for the most part. I already speak a couple of other languages so shouldn't be like a regular adult starting from scratch. I think i could get the Level 4 (B2 ish) required in less than 2 years.

hbar
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:24 pm

Re: Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?

Post by hbar » Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:43 pm

FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:51 pm
hbar wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:42 pm
We have two children of primary school age who we want to go to school in Finland, and a new baby.
hbar wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:21 am
i would be willing to be the worm for a few years just to earn my stripes so wouldn't be averse to taking on lower paying junior roles etc.
The income requirement for a family of 5 is 2900 Euro per month after taxes.
Hi FinlandGirl do you have a source for this so i can read it? And also do you know roughly what 2900e after tax would work out at as a salary, ie what amount salary would i have to earn pre-tax to qualify?

Cheers

FinlandGirl
Posts: 789
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?

Post by FinlandGirl » Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:56 pm

hbar wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:43 pm
FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:51 pm
hbar wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:42 pm
We have two children of primary school age who we want to go to school in Finland, and a new baby.
hbar wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:21 am
i would be willing to be the worm for a few years just to earn my stripes so wouldn't be averse to taking on lower paying junior roles etc.
The income requirement for a family of 5 is 2900 Euro per month after taxes.
Hi FinlandGirl do you have a source for this so i can read it?
https://migri.fi/en/income-requirement- ... in-finland
hbar wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:43 pm
And also do you know roughly what 2900e after tax would work out at as a salary, ie what amount salary would i have to earn pre-tax to qualify?
Around 4000-4500 Euro per month.

Median salary in Finland is 3100 Euro per month.

FinlandGirl
Posts: 789
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?

Post by FinlandGirl » Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:19 am

hbar wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:42 pm
We had our hearts set on Finland a couple of years ago (after several visits) but unfortunately our house sale didn't complete in time and we couldn't move before Brexit happened.
Moving before the end of the Brexit transition period 6 months ago would have given you EU citizen treatment, like not requiring a residence permit for moving to Finland and permanent exemption from tuition fees.

Now you are moving as non-EU citizen, under the same rules and in the same queues as people from countries like India or Nepal who also want to study or work in Finland.
hbar wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:58 pm
FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:51 pm
The income requirement for a family of 5 is 2900 Euro per month after taxes.

You should apply for an English-language UAS Bachelor, learning Finnish from scratch to a level sufficient for studying in the language while living abroad is unlikely to be fast if you manage to do it at all.
Application period for studies starting autumn 2022 will be around January 2022, entrance exams in spring 2022.
As already mentioned, your family can move with you immediately if they apply together with you.
Do you know if there's a minimum amount of money you'd have to bring with you to study, in my situation? Like an amount per year per person?
https://migri.fi/en/means-of-support
https://migri.fi/en/income-requirement- ... in-finland

That would be 29 520 Euro per year plus tuition fees.
hbar wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:58 pm
The only thing with learning Finnish first would be that there appear to be many many more degree programs in my topic of choice (computer science/information technology) - i'm not sure pinning my hopes on going to one of two choices in these fields that teach in English would be a smart move since they could easily reject me.
Check exact admission criteria for the Finnish language studies you are interested in, competing with B2 against native speakers in an entrance examination would also be a challenge.

On a plus side, studying in Finnish would avoid tuition fees.
hbar wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:58 pm
I've studied a bit of Finnish before now and i didn't find it that difficult - seems logical for the most part. I already speak a couple of other languages so shouldn't be like a regular adult starting from scratch. I think i could get the Level 4 (B2 ish) required in less than 2 years.
You would aim at starting university and moving to Finland in autumn 2023 or 2024, and then graduate around 2027?

hbar
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:24 pm

Re: Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?

Post by hbar » Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:47 am

FinlandGirl wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:19 am
hbar wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:42 pm
We had our hearts set on Finland a couple of years ago (after several visits) but unfortunately our house sale didn't complete in time and we couldn't move before Brexit happened.
Moving before the end of the Brexit transition period 6 months ago would have given you EU citizen treatment, like not requiring a residence permit for moving to Finland and permanent exemption from tuition fees.

Now you are moving as non-EU citizen, under the same rules and in the same queues as people from countries like India or Nepal who also want to study or work in Finland.
hbar wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:58 pm
FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:51 pm
The income requirement for a family of 5 is 2900 Euro per month after taxes.

You should apply for an English-language UAS Bachelor, learning Finnish from scratch to a level sufficient for studying in the language while living abroad is unlikely to be fast if you manage to do it at all.
Application period for studies starting autumn 2022 will be around January 2022, entrance exams in spring 2022.
As already mentioned, your family can move with you immediately if they apply together with you.
Do you know if there's a minimum amount of money you'd have to bring with you to study, in my situation? Like an amount per year per person?
https://migri.fi/en/means-of-support
https://migri.fi/en/income-requirement- ... in-finland

That would be 29 520 Euro per year plus tuition fees.
hbar wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:58 pm
The only thing with learning Finnish first would be that there appear to be many many more degree programs in my topic of choice (computer science/information technology) - i'm not sure pinning my hopes on going to one of two choices in these fields that teach in English would be a smart move since they could easily reject me.
Check exact admission criteria for the Finnish language studies you are interested in, competing with B2 against native speakers in an entrance examination would also be a challenge.

On a plus side, studying in Finnish would avoid tuition fees.
hbar wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:58 pm
I've studied a bit of Finnish before now and i didn't find it that difficult - seems logical for the most part. I already speak a couple of other languages so shouldn't be like a regular adult starting from scratch. I think i could get the Level 4 (B2 ish) required in less than 2 years.
You would aim at starting university and moving to Finland in autumn 2023 or 2024, and then graduate around 2027?
Unfortunately we didn't release our funds in time so couldn't make the move. Silly Brexit.

It seems from what you've said that studying is out, and it also seems like the salary requirement is probably too high given my family members requirements upping the amount.

Not sure i could just walk into such a high paying job right off the bat.

And if i studied if i can't find a qualifying job at the end i'm presuming i'd get asked to leave? After the kids being at school for 4 years that would be horrible.

FinlandGirl
Posts: 789
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?

Post by FinlandGirl » Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:20 am

hbar wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:47 am
It seems from what you've said that studying is out,
It's not a fast or cheap option for you now, and might not work in the end.
hbar wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:47 am
and it also seems like the salary requirement is probably too high given my family members requirements upping the amount.

Not sure i could just walk into such a high paying job right off the bat.
hbar wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:42 pm
I am a front end web dev
How much is the salary in your current web development job in the UK?
The easiest way would be to work your way up in IT in the UK, and then apply for similar jobs in Finland.
Already learning Finnish would be an optional bonus, but having proven relevant IT skills is more important.
hbar wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:47 am
And if i studied if i can't find a qualifying job at the end i'm presuming i'd get asked to leave? After the kids being at school for 4 years that would be horrible.
By then your wife should also be fluent in Finnish and have found a job.

betelgeuse
Posts: 4003
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?

Post by betelgeuse » Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:05 am

FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:56 pm
hbar wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:43 pm
FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:51 pm




The income requirement for a family of 5 is 2900 Euro per month after taxes.
Hi FinlandGirl do you have a source for this so i can read it?
https://migri.fi/en/income-requirement- ... in-finland
hbar wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:43 pm
And also do you know roughly what 2900e after tax would work out at as a salary, ie what amount salary would i have to earn pre-tax to qualify?
Around 4000-4500 Euro per month.

Median salary in Finland is 3100 Euro per month.
The salary required would actually be less because any family benefits can be included. With a new baby, the mother will be eligible for a while and there will be child benefit for all three.

hbar
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:24 pm

Re: Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?

Post by hbar » Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:08 am

betelgeuse wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:05 am
FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:56 pm
hbar wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:43 pm


Hi FinlandGirl do you have a source for this so i can read it?
https://migri.fi/en/income-requirement- ... in-finland
hbar wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:43 pm
And also do you know roughly what 2900e after tax would work out at as a salary, ie what amount salary would i have to earn pre-tax to qualify?
Around 4000-4500 Euro per month.

Median salary in Finland is 3100 Euro per month.
The salary required would actually be less because any family benefits can be included. With a new baby, the mother will be eligible for a while and there will be child benefit for all three.
Any idea how much less? I would need to know before committing to the idea really.

hbar
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:24 pm

Re: Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?

Post by hbar » Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:17 am

hbar wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:47 am
FinlandGirl wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:19 am


https://migri.fi/en/means-of-support
https://migri.fi/en/income-requirement- ... in-finland

That would be 29 520 Euro per year plus tuition fees.

Hi where did you get this number from? The means of support page says 13,440e per year for the student but the requirement for family members page appears to be stating if you come as an entire family under a work permit not as a student, and even then 2900 x 12 would be 34k a year not 29520. Just wondering how the numbers are being arrived at?


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