Which residance permit should I apply for?

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Lula
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:22 pm

Which residance permit should I apply for?

Post by Lula » Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:35 am

Hello,

My residence permit is about to expire at April 2021 and my situation is a bit complicated, or at least it was in the past, maybe someone can offer some words of wisdom :)

I was married to a Finnish citizen for 2 yeas befor we seperated due to violent behavior (of him against me), this marriage was what my current residence permit is based on.
I am divorced for more then a year and in a relationship with another man (also a Finnish citizen), we are living together for almost 2 years (will be 2 years at the end of December). We where planning to get married but had to cancel for now because of corona situation. My spouse suggested to have just a ceremony without a wedding so we will be legally married and things may go easier like that, but I'm worried that migri will think it's a bit too convenient that I happen to get married a few months before my residence permit expires, and once again with only an official ceremony and no wedding.

Question 1- Do you think I'm being paranoid for nothing, or does it realy look bad? Should we do the ceremony just in case or will it just make things worse this close to the expiration time of my rp? If I was lying it would be easy to come up with a good lie, what I'm going for is to make the truth look a bit better...
Also, will it be a problem that I was still technically married to my ex when my current spouse moved to live together?

I also just graduated from a vocational school here in Finland and now working at the profession I studied, but my work contract is temporery at the moment (for 1 year) and I'm still at trial periode (koeaika).

Question 2- which residence permit should I apply for and when should I do it? My current permit is A and was valid for 4 years, I already did YKI test 3 years ago (level B, got the grade 3 on all categories) I live with a Finnish spouse and now I have a job. Is it enough for a permenant rp? And from paranoid to extra optimistic, any chance I can already ask for a Finnish citizenship?

Sorry for the long text, I will probably have even more questions later...
Thank you :)



Which residance permit should I apply for?

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rinso
Posts: 3911
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:22 pm

Re: Which residance permit should I apply for?

Post by rinso » Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:40 am

It looks simple to me. Two years of cohabitation should be enough for a new RP. A marriage could make things go faster, but it should not make any difference in the outcome.

betelgeuse
Posts: 3661
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Which residance permit should I apply for?

Post by betelgeuse » Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:56 am

Lula wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:35 am
,
Question 2- which residence permit should I apply for and when should I do it? My current permit is A and was valid for 4 years, I already did YKI test 3 years ago (level B, got the grade 3 on all categories) I live with a Finnish spouse and now I have a job. Is it enough for a permenant rp? And from paranoid to extra optimistic, any chance I can already ask for a Finnish citizenship?
With the required residency, if one can get A, one can get P. Usually people with the language skills, who qualify for P, also qualify for citizenship (the barrier for strong ties is somewhat low).

ruusu25
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:54 pm

Re: Which residance permit should I apply for?

Post by ruusu25 » Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:15 pm

Since you have already passed the Yki test, you can apply for citizenship, with one caveat.

Per the residence period requirement stated here,
If you have the language skills required for becoming a Finnish citizen, it is sufficient if your permanent residence and domicile has been in Finland for the past four years without interruption.
The caveat is twofold: first, I assume that if your current four-year permit expires in April 2021, it means you arrived in Finland in April 2017. This means that, technically, you haven't been in Finland quite long enough at this moment. However, there is such a backlog of citizenship applications that yours almost certainly won't even be opened until well after April 2021—according to this page, the processing time for citizenship applications is currently 10 to 16 months. This means that your application won't be looked at until after your permit expires (which is also when you will meet the four-year uninterrupted residency requirement).

I believe that you are allowed to remain in Finland if you have a pending citizenship application, even if your residence permit expires. However, I am not 100% sure about that and cannot find the info on Migri's website, so if you want to go the citizenship route, you should call Migri to confirm this.

Review the other citizenship requirements on the application page linked above to make sure you meet them all. They're things like "be older than 18" and "don't be guilty of a crime or have an outstanding restraining order against you".

FinlandGirl
Posts: 524
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: Which residance permit should I apply for?

Post by FinlandGirl » Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:18 pm

ruusu25 wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:15 pm
The caveat is twofold: first, I assume that if your current four-year permit expires in April 2021, it means you arrived in Finland in April 2017.
This cannot be true.

First residence permits are never for 4 years.

ruusu25
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:54 pm

Re: Which residance permit should I apply for?

Post by ruusu25 » Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:20 pm

FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:18 pm
ruusu25 wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:15 pm
The caveat is twofold: first, I assume that if your current four-year permit expires in April 2021, it means you arrived in Finland in April 2017.
This cannot be true.

First residence permits are never for 4 years.
It's not clear from the OP; they say they were married two years and then divorced but seeing someone else, with whom they have presently been for 2 years. Not sure how long a gap was between them.

FinlandGirl
Posts: 524
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: Which residance permit should I apply for?

Post by FinlandGirl » Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:26 pm

Lula wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:35 am
My residence permit is about to expire at April 2021
betelgeuse wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:56 am
Lula wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:35 am
,
Question 2- which residence permit should I apply for and when should I do it? My current permit is A and was valid for 4 years, I already did YKI test 3 years ago (level B, got the grade 3 on all categories) I live with a Finnish spouse and now I have a job. Is it enough for a permenant rp? And from paranoid to extra optimistic, any chance I can already ask for a Finnish citizenship?
With the required residency, if one can get A, one can get P. Usually people with the language skills, who qualify for P, also qualify for citizenship (the barrier for strong ties is somewhat low).
She won't get a decision on a citizenship application before her current residence permit expires.

FinlandGirl
Posts: 524
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: Which residance permit should I apply for?

Post by FinlandGirl » Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:32 pm

ruusu25 wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:20 pm
FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:18 pm
ruusu25 wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:15 pm
The caveat is twofold: first, I assume that if your current four-year permit expires in April 2021, it means you arrived in Finland in April 2017.
This cannot be true.

First residence permits are never for 4 years.
It's not clear from the OP; they say they were married two years and then divorced but seeing someone else, with whom they have presently been for 2 years. Not sure how long a gap was between them.
It is absolutely clear this cannot be her first residence permit on family ties, your guesses regarding arrival in Finland are therefore wrong.

See section 53(1) of the Aliens Act.

ruusu25
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:54 pm

Re: Which residance permit should I apply for?

Post by ruusu25 » Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:41 pm

FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:32 pm
ruusu25 wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:20 pm
FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:18 pm


This cannot be true.

First residence permits are never for 4 years.
It's not clear from the OP; they say they were married two years and then divorced but seeing someone else, with whom they have presently been for 2 years. Not sure how long a gap was between them.
It is absolutely clear this cannot be her first residence permit on family ties, your guesses regarding arrival in Finland are therefore wrong.

See section 53(1) of the Aliens Act.
FWIW, I've seen (rare) exceptions to this, but you are probably right in any case. This is also the least important bit as far as helping OP is concerned, as OP knows how long they have been in Finland.

FinlandGirl
Posts: 524
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: Which residance permit should I apply for?

Post by FinlandGirl » Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:46 pm

ruusu25 wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:41 pm
FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:32 pm
ruusu25 wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:20 pm


It's not clear from the OP; they say they were married two years and then divorced but seeing someone else, with whom they have presently been for 2 years. Not sure how long a gap was between them.
It is absolutely clear this cannot be her first residence permit on family ties, your guesses regarding arrival in Finland are therefore wrong.

See section 53(1) of the Aliens Act.
FWIW, I've seen (rare) exceptions to this, but you are probably right in any case.
For family ties I do not see how more than 4 years would be legally possible at all.
ruusu25 wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:41 pm
as OP knows how long they have been in Finland.
But your advice was based on an impossible assumption.

FinlandGirl
Posts: 524
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: Which residance permit should I apply for?

Post by FinlandGirl » Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:49 pm

Lula wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:35 am
I am divorced for more then a year and in a relationship with another man (also a Finnish citizen), we are living together for almost 2 years (will be 2 years at the end of December).
rinso wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:40 am
It looks simple to me. Two years of cohabitation should be enough for a new RP. A marriage could make things go faster, but it should not make any difference in the outcome.
I would recommend asking Migri first whether one can be in a marriage-like cohabitation with one person while still being legally married to another person, or whether cohabitation only starts after the divorce.

ruusu25
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:54 pm

Re: Which residance permit should I apply for?

Post by ruusu25 » Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:37 pm

FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:46 pm
ruusu25 wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:41 pm
FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:32 pm


It is absolutely clear this cannot be her first residence permit on family ties, your guesses regarding arrival in Finland are therefore wrong.

See section 53(1) of the Aliens Act.
FWIW, I've seen (rare) exceptions to this, but you are probably right in any case.
For family ties I do not see how more than 4 years would be legally possible at all.
ruusu25 wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:41 pm
as OP knows how long they have been in Finland.
But your advice was based on an impossible assumption.
No ... my advice gave OP correct information on how to go about applying for citizenship, backed up by links to the relevant Migri pages. If OP follows my instructions, they will go through the appropriate steps to do that. My guess about the length of time they have been in Finland was clearly contextualized by what it means if it's been more or less than 4 years. OP knows what to do in either case. In fact: I even explained why, due to the backlog, OP can start the application either way. My guess makes no material difference to OP at all: OP simply needs to know themself how long they have been in Finland. My guess was not what the advice was "based on".

The TL;DR for OP is that they can apply for citizenship if they've been in Finland on an A-type permit for at least 4 years because they already passed the Yki test. Unless they've been convicted of a crime, have outstanding debts to the state, or have another unusual circumstance as outlined in the Requirements section of the application page.

betelgeuse
Posts: 3661
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Which residance permit should I apply for?

Post by betelgeuse » Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:10 pm

ruusu25 wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:15 pm
I believe that you are allowed to remain in Finland if you have a pending citizenship application, even if your residence permit expires. However, I am not 100% sure about that and cannot find the info on Migri's website, so if you want to go the citizenship route, you should call Migri to confirm this.
You are not.
My citizenship application is pending and my passport/residence permit is expiring soon. What should I do?

You have to renew your passport and residence permit normally. The expiration of a passport or of a residence permit is not a ground for expediting a citizenship application.
https://migri.fi/en/faq-finnish-citizenship

ruusu25
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:54 pm

Re: Which residance permit should I apply for?

Post by ruusu25 » Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:23 pm

Excellent—thanks, betelgeuse. So, OP, you do have to renew your residence permit since a pending citizenship application doesn't grant you the right to stay. But if you've indeed been around 4+ years, you can also submit a citizenship application so that this is your last RP renewal :D

FinlandGirl
Posts: 524
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: Which residance permit should I apply for?

Post by FinlandGirl » Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:06 pm

ruusu25 wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:23 pm
Excellent—thanks, betelgeuse. So, OP, you do have to renew your residence permit since a pending citizenship application doesn't grant you the right to stay. But if you've indeed been around 4+ years, you can also submit a citizenship application so that this is your last RP renewal :D
The last part is also wrong.

No citizenship application is required for making this the last RP renewal, a renewal based on family ties will be P.


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