Remigration RP Questions

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viveksilvola
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:12 am

Remigration RP Questions

Post by viveksilvola » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:27 am

Hello,

I recently learned I seem to be eligible for a Finnish residency permit per https://migri.fi/en/remigration, and am entertaining the idea of moving sometime in the next few years from the US. My grandmother was born in the US to Finnish parents shortly after they moved here, and prior to either of them obtaining US citizenship. I've read through as much documentation as I've been able to find, and where I've gotten stuck is on a piece of the documentation.

The application requires "Certificates from Finnish archives verifying Finnish citizenship (e.g. official certificates from parishes, certificates from the Finnish National Archives)" in addition to birth certificates for my US relatives. The birth certificates are no problem, and I have naturalization documents for my great grandparents as well, showing the year they relinquished their Finnish citizenship. However, I have had absolutely no luck finding any records online of my great grandparents birth or residency in Finland. I've checked what I'm able to on the Finnish National Archives site, as well as a number of ancestry sites - it looks like a lot of parish records stop at 1850, and I'm trying to find something between 1897-1917. Does anyone know any resources to locate this kind of document? I am also planning a trip to Finland next year to visit, and can do in-person reach potentially if needed, but have little idea where to start. And, I assume this is a hard requirement on the application, but is it? Would birth certificates of my grandparents and immigration paperwork perhaps be enough?

Also - let's say I figure out the paperwork and apply. The application also asks for a date of planned residency - how accurate does this need to be? Given the processing times, etc. I'm not really sure how to plan a move date. For example, if I applied today and specified a move a year from now, would it get rejected, or would something like that be acceptable? Two years? I saw another poster state their permit was good for 4 years - curious if that is the norm for one of these as well.

Thanks!



Remigration RP Questions

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Upphew
Posts: 10653
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:55 pm
Location: Lappeenranta

Re: Remigration RP Questions

Post by Upphew » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:27 am

viveksilvola wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:27 am
Also - let's say I figure out the paperwork and apply. The application also asks for a date of planned residency - how accurate does this need to be? Given the processing times, etc. I'm not really sure how to plan a move date. For example, if I applied today and specified a move a year from now, would it get rejected, or would something like that be acceptable? Two years? I saw another poster state their permit was good for 4 years - curious if that is the norm for one of these as well.

Thanks!
Afaik migri decides the starting day for the permit based on your planned move.
http://google.com http://translate.google.com http://urbandictionary.com
Visa is for visiting, Residence Permit for residing.

heretostay
Posts: 456
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:54 pm

Re: Remigration RP Questions

Post by heretostay » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:38 pm

You might have problems if your grandparent was never registered as a Finnish citizen. Being born in the USA conveys automatic citizenship regardless and of parents’ citizenships it is entirely possible that your grandparent was never a Finnish citizen.

viveksilvola
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:12 am

Re: Remigration RP Questions

Post by viveksilvola » Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:26 pm

heretostay wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:38 pm
You might have problems if your grandparent was never registered as a Finnish citizen. Being born in the USA conveys automatic citizenship regardless and of parents’ citizenships it is entirely possible that your grandparent was never a Finnish citizen.
My understanding was that my grandmother would have become a Finnish citizen at birth, as her parents were at the time she was born. As far as I know she did not keep it, but it reads that as long as she was at any time I would be eligible. Is that not the case?

viveksilvola
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:12 am

Re: Remigration RP Questions

Post by viveksilvola » Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:26 pm

Upphew wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:27 am
viveksilvola wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:27 am
Also - let's say I figure out the paperwork and apply. The application also asks for a date of planned residency - how accurate does this need to be? Given the processing times, etc. I'm not really sure how to plan a move date. For example, if I applied today and specified a move a year from now, would it get rejected, or would something like that be acceptable? Two years? I saw another poster state their permit was good for 4 years - curious if that is the norm for one of these as well.

Thanks!
Afaik migri decides the starting day for the permit based on your planned move.
Makes sense. Thanks!

heretostay
Posts: 456
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:54 pm

Re: Remigration RP Questions

Post by heretostay » Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:12 am

viveksilvola wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:26 pm
My understanding was that my grandmother would have become a Finnish citizen at birth, as her parents were at the time she was born. As far as I know she did not keep it, but it reads that as long as she was at any time I would be eligible. Is that not the case?
Your grandmother would not automatically have been a Finnish citizen at birth. Eligibility for citizenship is not the same as having citizenship. As I understand it, if her parents never registered her right of citizenship, then she was never a Finnish citizen. This is why the requirement for documentation from national archives or parish in Finland is required for the application.

viveksilvola
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:12 am

Re: Remigration RP Questions

Post by viveksilvola » Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:39 am

heretostay wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:12 am
viveksilvola wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:26 pm
My understanding was that my grandmother would have become a Finnish citizen at birth, as her parents were at the time she was born. As far as I know she did not keep it, but it reads that as long as she was at any time I would be eligible. Is that not the case?
Your grandmother would not automatically have been a Finnish citizen at birth. Eligibility for citizenship is not the same as having citizenship. As I understand it, if her parents never registered her right of citizenship, then she was never a Finnish citizen. This is why the requirement for documentation from national archives or parish in Finland is required for the application.

I'm going off of this: https://migri.fi/en/finnish-citizenship which states: The Finnish citizenship of a child’s parent will automatically pass on to a child who is born on 1 June 2003 or later, if:

the child’s mother is a Finnish citizen
the child’s father is a Finnish citizen and married to the child’s mother
the child is born in Finland and the father is a Finnish citizen whose paternity has been established on 1 June 2003 or later
the child is born in Finland and the child’s non-birth mother is a Finnish citizen whose maternity has been established on 1 April 2019 or later.

This was of course as of 2003 - I am not sure if the law was different prior to that, and am not finding a resource describing what it was in the 1920s. Both of my grandmothers parents were Finnish citizens and married at the time of her birth.

heretostay
Posts: 456
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:54 pm

Re: Remigration RP Questions

Post by heretostay » Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:52 am

I would consult migri directly since they would be the ones to make the decision. Your case is not straightforward and the law from 2003 is likely very different than in 1920. To me it seems that you are one generation too far to qualify for remigration, but I am not an expert at all. Consulting Migri or a lawyer in Finland would be your best option.

FinlandGirl
Posts: 562
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: Remigration RP Questions

Post by FinlandGirl » Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:32 pm

viveksilvola wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:27 am
However, I have had absolutely no luck finding any records online of my great grandparents birth or residency in Finland. I've checked what I'm able to on the Finnish National Archives site, as well as a number of ancestry sites - it looks like a lot of parish records stop at 1850, and I'm trying to find something between 1897-1917. Does anyone know any resources to locate this kind of document? I am also planning a trip to Finland next year to visit, and can do in-person reach potentially if needed, but have little idea where to start.
Ask the parish where your grandparents were born and married, the records might exist even when then haven't yet been made available online.
viveksilvola wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:27 am
Would birth certificates of my grandparents and immigration paperwork perhaps be enough?
The application form says "Certificates from Finnish archives verifying Finnish citizenship (e.g. official certificates from parishes, certificates from the Finnish National Archives)".

US documents usually contain whatever information the local clerk was told verbally.
It was common that people switched to an anglicized form of their name shortly after moving to the US, do you even have the original Finnish or Swedish names of your great grandparents?
Some people had reasons for claiming a different birth date or country of origin than the actual one, I've seen cases of 5 different birthdates when reviewing US records that clearly belonged to the same person.
viveksilvola wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:39 am
This was of course as of 2003 - I am not sure if the law was different prior to that, and am not finding a resource describing what it was in the 1920s.
The 2003 law was the first to introduce dual citizenship, before 2003 you automatically lost Finnish citizenship when acquiring another one.


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