Internationals in Finland who have both a foreign and Finnish driver's license

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Caroline
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Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2003 8:38 pm

Internationals in Finland who have both a foreign and Finnish driver's license

Post by Caroline » Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:21 am

Does anyone who has been a long-term resident immigrant in Finland have any experience with having to renew their home country's license so that they can drive while visiting their home country, (especially Americans now that the USA has implemented the REAL ID licenses)? It might not be a problem for people who spend most of their time in cities where there's more public transportation, but it can be an issue for rural areas where there aren't even any taxis or Uber service.

I never thought that this could be a hassle/problem, but planning ahead for the future it could be if we permanently move back to Finland but want to visit the U.S. and if I want to drive in my home country (USA) regularly. When I lived in Finland in the early 2000's, I was not there long enough and the timing was just right that I did not run into this problem.

The main issue seems to be that foreign nationals apparently cannot take their Finnish driver's licenses out of Finland even though Finnish licenses are valid in other countries, and even though having a Nordic Passport Union member country's driver's license makes it easier to do some things like rent a car in other Nordic countries (my husband uses his Finnish driver's license to get a discount on car rentals in Iceland).

I learned about the driver's license policy when my Finnish license was granted in 2002 and had to go to the police station to get it; the clerk asked for my original license from my home country and then said that if I need my original (American) license back, I have to give them my Finnish license to hold until I return the American one. People who got their first driver's license in Finland (even if they also have a foreign license) do not seem to have to follow this policy.

On our most recent visit to Finland in 2019, I tried to find out if that policy had changed and asked directly from the Oulu police station staff if it's a requirement for them to hold foreign driver's licenses for resident foreign nationals who also have Finnish licenses, but I did not get an explanation and the clerk seemed to misunderstand (maybe I explained the question badly or maybe the clerk did not want to answer the question), so I gave up.

So does anyone know why foreign nationals can't take their Finnish driver's licenses out of Finland, or is there actually a way to do that? Does this policy only apply to non-Schengen zone country nationals? Is it an EU policy?


Former expat in Finland, now living in New Hampshire USA.

Internationals in Finland who have both a foreign and Finnish driver's license

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betelgeuse
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Re: Internationals in Finland who have both a foreign and Finnish driver's license

Post by betelgeuse » Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:34 am

Caroline wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:21 am
Does anyone who has been a long-term resident immigrant in Finland have any experience with having to renew their home country's license so that they can drive while visiting their home country, (especially Americans now that the USA has implemented the REAL ID licenses)? It might not be a problem for people who spend most of their time in cities where there's more public transportation, but it can be an issue for rural areas where there aren't even any taxis or Uber service.

I never thought that this could be a hassle/problem, but planning ahead for the future it could be if we permanently move back to Finland but want to visit the U.S. and if I want to drive in my home country (USA) regularly. When I lived in Finland in the early 2000's, I was not there long enough and the timing was just right that I did not run into this problem.

The main issue seems to be that foreign nationals apparently cannot take their Finnish driver's licenses out of Finland even though Finnish licenses are valid in other countries, and even though having a Nordic Passport Union member country's driver's license makes it easier to do some things like rent a car in other Nordic countries (my husband uses his Finnish driver's license to get a discount on car rentals in Iceland).

I learned about the driver's license policy when my Finnish license was granted in 2002 and had to go to the police station to get it; the clerk asked for my original license from my home country and then said that if I need my original (American) license back, I have to give them my Finnish license to hold until I return the American one. People who got their first driver's license in Finland (even if they also have a foreign license) do not seem to have to follow this policy.

On our most recent visit to Finland in 2019, I tried to find out if that policy had changed and asked directly from the Oulu police station staff if it's a requirement for them to hold foreign driver's licenses for resident foreign nationals who also have Finnish licenses, but I did not get an explanation and the clerk seemed to misunderstand (maybe I explained the question badly or maybe the clerk did not want to answer the question), so I gave up.

So does anyone know why foreign nationals can't take their Finnish driver's licenses out of Finland, or is there actually a way to do that? Does this policy only apply to non-Schengen zone country nationals? Is it an EU policy?
I have never heard of such policy. You probably confused it with the policy that allows you to get the original license back when permanently moving away from Finland.

https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/ ... 0386#L6P62

Caroline
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Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2003 8:38 pm

Re: Internationals in Finland who have both a foreign and Finnish driver's license

Post by Caroline » Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:04 am

Thanks for the reply. Ok that link actually explains that it IS a law to give the original foreign license to the authorities in order to get the Finnish one...so the law for some reason does not allow the license holder to keep both the original foreign one and the Finnish one at the same time. I don't think I got anything confused, because this applies whether the license holder is visiting Finland or living there. (not required to use the Finnish license when visiting Finland, but I like to because it proves that I have a history there).

Or are you trying to say that there is nothing preventing someone from taking a "converted" Finnish license out of Finland, as long as they don't need their original foreign license back?
Former expat in Finland, now living in New Hampshire USA.

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rinso
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Re: Internationals in Finland who have both a foreign and Finnish driver's license

Post by rinso » Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:00 am

so the law for some reason does not allow the license holder to keep both the original foreign one and the Finnish one at the same time
If you have two legal licences, you can still use the second if the first one is cancelled due to traffic violations. That is not how it was meant to be.
Or are you trying to say that there is nothing preventing someone from taking a "converted" Finnish license out of Finland, as long as they don't need their original foreign license back?
Yes. I do it all the time.

betelgeuse
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Re: Internationals in Finland who have both a foreign and Finnish driver's license

Post by betelgeuse » Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:15 am

Caroline wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:04 am
Thanks for the reply. Ok that link actually explains that it IS a law to give the original foreign license to the authorities in order to get the Finnish one...so the law for some reason does not allow the license holder to keep both the original foreign one and the Finnish one at the same time. I don't think I got anything confused, because this applies whether the license holder is visiting Finland or living there. (not required to use the Finnish license when visiting Finland, but I like to because it proves that I have a history there).
Visitors can’t get a Finnish license. You need to be resident for the conversion.
Caroline wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:04 am
Or are you trying to say that there is nothing preventing someone from taking a "converted" Finnish license out of Finland, as long as they don't need their original foreign license back?
Vienna and Geneve conventions mean that the Finnish license (with potentially a international driving permit based on it) is all you need in most places.

Caroline
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Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2003 8:38 pm

Re: Internationals in Finland who have both a foreign and Finnish driver's license

Post by Caroline » Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:49 pm

"Visitors can’t get a Finnish license. You need to be resident for the conversion."



I already have a Finnish license that was granted in 2002 when I lived there. Former residents who converted their licenses are allowed (but not required) to use them when visiting Finland...I have done it twice, most recently in 2019.




"Vienna and Geneve conventions mean that the Finnish license (with potentially a international driving permit based on it) is all you need in most places."



For driving, yes, of course, but NOT for renewing the home country's license...or at least not in the U.S. If you're driving on a foreign license in the U.S. and trying to get a new U.S. license, and you don't have a valid U.S. license with you (either because it has expired or because you've never had one), you often end up retaking the road and written tests. So, in the U.S., even if you have had a U.S. license in the past, they tend to treat you like a foreign applicant if your current license is foreign.

So, basically, if someone wants to keep a valid license for their home country, and they can only do it in person, it sounds like the only option is to plan a visit to the home country to renew the home country's license.
Former expat in Finland, now living in New Hampshire USA.

jaatelo
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Re: Internationals in Finland who have both a foreign and Finnish driver's license

Post by jaatelo » Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:37 pm

Caroline wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:49 pm
"Visitors can’t get a Finnish license. You need to be resident for the conversion."

I already have a Finnish license that was granted in 2002 when I lived there. Former residents who converted their licenses are allowed (but not required) to use them when visiting Finland...I have done it twice, most recently in 2019.

IF someone wants to keep a valid license for their home country, and they can only do it in person, it sounds like the only option is to plan a visit to the home country to renew the home country's license.
You can have two driving licenses both at the same time.

The US on the other hand DOES NOT CARE whether you have a Finnish license or not. An American COP probably has never heard of the Geneva Convention, has never visited Europe, and thinks that Finland is a country located next to Mexico. Cops in America want to see a local licence preferably issued by the state where you are pulled over. If you are pulled over in Arizona, you better have an Arizona license.

In order to drive your car in USA, I would highly recommend to maintain your USA driver's license.

USA does not care about Europe and it's laws.

Finland DOES CARE about europe and it's laws and it will accept your USA license and will also allow you to renew your previously issued Finnish license if you are a resident here.

Good luck.

:)

betelgeuse
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Re: Internationals in Finland who have both a foreign and Finnish driver's license

Post by betelgeuse » Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:37 am

jaatelo wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:37 pm
Caroline wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:49 pm
"Visitors can’t get a Finnish license. You need to be resident for the conversion."

I already have a Finnish license that was granted in 2002 when I lived there. Former residents who converted their licenses are allowed (but not required) to use them when visiting Finland...I have done it twice, most recently in 2019.

IF someone wants to keep a valid license for their home country, and they can only do it in person, it sounds like the only option is to plan a visit to the home country to renew the home country's license.
You can have two driving licenses both at the same time.

The US on the other hand DOES NOT CARE whether you have a Finnish license or not. An American COP probably has never heard of the Geneva Convention, has never visited Europe, and thinks that Finland is a country located next to Mexico. Cops in America want to see a local licence preferably issued by the state where you are pulled over. If you are pulled over in Arizona, you better have an Arizona license.

In order to drive your car in USA, I would highly recommend to maintain your USA driver's license.

USA does not care about Europe and it's laws.

Finland DOES CARE about europe and it's laws and it will accept your USA license and will also allow you to renew your previously issued Finnish license if you are a resident here.
The Geneva Convention on Road Traffic is not European.

jaatelo
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Joined: Sun May 09, 2021 1:40 pm

Re: Internationals in Finland who have both a foreign and Finnish driver's license

Post by jaatelo » Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:45 am

betelgeuse wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:37 am
The Geneva Convention on Road Traffic is not European.
USA does not care about any Geneva convention.

Long time ago when I was attending college in the united states, I remember getting pulled over in Arizona with a Georgia state license and was fined $100 for not converting it to an Arizona license. If this was a Finnish license, I would probably be arrested for driving without a valid license.

I also had my Turkish license on me and I tried explaining the Geneva convention to the police officer and he looked at me like I was crazy or something.

The easiest way to piss off an American police officer is to try and explain him a convention which was made in Switzerland in the year 1949. You are likely to spend the night in jail.

jaatelo
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Joined: Sun May 09, 2021 1:40 pm

Re: Internationals in Finland who have both a foreign and Finnish driver's license

Post by jaatelo » Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:13 am

Caroline wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:21 am
Does anyone who has been a long-term resident immigrant in Finland have any experience with having to renew their home country's license so that they can drive while visiting their home country, (especially Americans now that the USA has implemented the REAL ID licenses)? It might not be a problem for people who spend most of their time in cities where there's more public transportation, but it can be an issue for rural areas where there aren't even any taxis or Uber service.
Hypothetically speaking, you could claim that you lost your usa driver's license and get an "extract from the dmv record" in your home state that you have a valid license. This extract from the database is a piece of paper that confirms you have a license in that state. You could try using that extract or piece of paper to claim your Finnish license without handing in your USA license.

Caroline
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Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2003 8:38 pm

Re: Internationals in Finland who have both a foreign and Finnish driver's license

Post by Caroline » Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:01 am

[/quote]

You can have two driving licenses both at the same time.


[/quote]


Yes, you can keep two valid at the same time, BUT, IF your Finnish license was "converted" from a foreign license, you can not take both licenses with you...one of them must always be kept at the police office. My husband (native Finn) did not realize either that this is the law. :roll:
Former expat in Finland, now living in New Hampshire USA.

Caroline
Posts: 1126
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2003 8:38 pm

Re: Internationals in Finland who have both a foreign and Finnish driver's license

Post by Caroline » Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:11 am

[/quote]

Hypothetically speaking, you could claim that you lost your usa driver's license and get an "extract from the dmv record" in your home state that you have a valid license. This extract from the database is a piece of paper that confirms you have a license in that state. You could try using that extract or piece of paper to claim your Finnish license without handing in your USA license.
[/quote]


My husband has suggested something like this (sometimes native Finns are the biggest bad-asses :D ) but I really want to do everything by the book.
Former expat in Finland, now living in New Hampshire USA.

betelgeuse
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Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Internationals in Finland who have both a foreign and Finnish driver's license

Post by betelgeuse » Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:19 am

jaatelo wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:45 am
betelgeuse wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:37 am
The Geneva Convention on Road Traffic is not European.
USA does not care about any Geneva convention.

Long time ago when I was attending college in the united states, I remember getting pulled over in Arizona with a Georgia state license and was fined $100 for not converting it to an Arizona license. If this was a Finnish license, I would probably be arrested for driving without a valid license.

I also had my Turkish license on me and I tried explaining the Geneva convention to the police officer and he looked at me like I was crazy or something.

The easiest way to piss off an American police officer is to try and explain him a convention which was made in Switzerland in the year 1949. You are likely to spend the night in jail.
I don’t know how cops behave in practise but they would have a civil suit in their hands for putting people in jail without valid cause. Could be worth it if the compensation is high enough (no idea how much it would be).

jaatelo
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Joined: Sun May 09, 2021 1:40 pm

Re: Internationals in Finland who have both a foreign and Finnish driver's license

Post by jaatelo » Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:20 am

betelgeuse wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:19 am
I don’t know how cops behave in practise but they would have a civil suit in their hands for putting people in jail without valid cause. Could be worth it if the compensation is high enough (no idea how much it would be).
I do know how cops behave in practice. At least in United States, if you present a foreign license, it is possible that the cop does not accept it as valid.

Driver: I have an "ajokortti korkort"

Police officer: what is that sir?

Driver: It's a Finnish driving license

Police officer: it's finished driving license, what does that even mean?

Police officer: Sir, step out of the car slowly with both hands up.

Caroline
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Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2003 8:38 pm

Re: Internationals in Finland who have both a foreign and Finnish driver's license

Post by Caroline » Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:56 am

jaatelo wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:20 am
betelgeuse wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:19 am
I don’t know how cops behave in practise but they would have a civil suit in their hands for putting people in jail without valid cause. Could be worth it if the compensation is high enough (no idea how much it would be).
I do know how cops behave in practice. At least in United States, if you present a foreign license, it is possible that the cop does not accept it as valid.

Driver: I have an "ajokortti korkort"

Police officer: what is that sir?

Driver: It's a Finnish driving license

Police officer: it's finished driving license, what does that even mean?

Police officer: Sir, step out of the car slowly with both hands up.
:lol: :lol:
Former expat in Finland, now living in New Hampshire USA.


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