560+700+500+400+300hbar wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:17 amHi where did you get this number from? The means of support page says 13,440e per year for the student but the requirement for family members page appears to be stating if you come as an entire family under a work permit not as a student, and even then 2900 x 12 would be 34k a year not 29520. Just wondering how the numbers are being arrived at?FinlandGirl wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:19 am
https://migri.fi/en/means-of-support
https://migri.fi/en/income-requirement- ... in-finland
That would be 29 520 Euro per year plus tuition fees.
Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?
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Re: Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?
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Re: Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?
You can also supplement with money in the bank. Given you have stated having large savings, the means of support shouldn’t really be an issue.hbar wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:08 amAny idea how much less? I would need to know before committing to the idea really.betelgeuse wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:05 amThe salary required would actually be less because any family benefits can be included. With a new baby, the mother will be eligible for a while and there will be child benefit for all three.FinlandGirl wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:56 pm
https://migri.fi/en/income-requirement- ... in-finland
Around 4000-4500 Euro per month.
Median salary in Finland is 3100 Euro per month.
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Re: Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?
Does Migri make any assumptions about future Kela decisions regarding benefits that have not yet been granted?betelgeuse wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:05 amThe salary required would actually be less because any family benefits can be included. With a new baby, the mother will be eligible for a while and there will be child benefit for all three.FinlandGirl wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:56 pmhttps://migri.fi/en/income-requirement- ... in-finland
Around 4000-4500 Euro per month.
Median salary in Finland is 3100 Euro per month.
Does Migri assume the mother will not place the child in daycare?
What municipality of residence does Migri assume for someone who has not yet moved to Finland?
The effect on the amount of taxes to be paid can be nearly as large as the child benefit for three children.
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Re: Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?
Can you provide a source that this works for non-B permits?betelgeuse wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:42 amYou can also supplement with money in the bank. Given you have stated having large savings, the means of support shouldn’t really be an issue.hbar wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:08 amAny idea how much less? I would need to know before committing to the idea really.betelgeuse wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:05 am
The salary required would actually be less because any family benefits can be included. With a new baby, the mother will be eligible for a while and there will be child benefit for all three.
I'd be curious to see the for how many years money would be required when supplementing income applying for 4 year or permanent RPs.
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Re: Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?
The applicant can provide their own calculation which shows the assumptions made.FinlandGirl wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:19 amDoes Migri make any assumptions about future Kela decisions regarding benefits that have not yet been granted?betelgeuse wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:05 amThe salary required would actually be less because any family benefits can be included. With a new baby, the mother will be eligible for a while and there will be child benefit for all three.FinlandGirl wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:56 pm
https://migri.fi/en/income-requirement- ... in-finland
Around 4000-4500 Euro per month.
Median salary in Finland is 3100 Euro per month.
Does Migri assume the mother will not place the child in daycare?
What municipality of residence does Migri assume for someone who has not yet moved to Finland?
The effect on the amount of taxes to be paid can be nearly as large as the child benefit for three children.
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Re: Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?
The Aliens Act only has a unified section 39 dealing with multiple permit types. I have always found it strange that Migri structures their web pages per permit type. While there’s common ways for each permit type, the current website doesn’t give the full picture.FinlandGirl wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:32 amCan you provide a source that this works for non-B permits?betelgeuse wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:42 amYou can also supplement with money in the bank. Given you have stated having large savings, the means of support shouldn’t really be an issue.
I'd be curious to see the for how many years money would be required when supplementing income applying for 4 year or permanent RPs.
https://finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/2004/20040301#L4P39
For the full four years but one could request a shorter permit. I am not sure how a permanent RP would be looked at.FinlandGirl wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:32 amI'd be curious to see the for how many years money would be required when supplementing income applying for 4 year or permanent RPs.
Re: Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?
We were also planning on buying a house outright. Does this affect the minimum income amount/savings amount? I know it does in other countries since the minimum amount often assumes rent is included in your monthly expenditure.betelgeuse wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:42 amYou can also supplement with money in the bank. Given you have stated having large savings, the means of support shouldn’t really be an issue.hbar wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:08 amAny idea how much less? I would need to know before committing to the idea really.betelgeuse wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:05 am
The salary required would actually be less because any family benefits can be included. With a new baby, the mother will be eligible for a while and there will be child benefit for all three.
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Re: Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?
It does assuming it’s cheaper to maintain than the rent used for the Migri guidance tables.hbar wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:19 amWe were also planning on buying a house outright. Does this affect the minimum income amount/savings amount? I know it does in other countries since the minimum amount often assumes rent is included in your monthly expenditure.betelgeuse wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:42 amYou can also supplement with money in the bank. Given you have stated having large savings, the means of support shouldn’t really be an issue.
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Re: Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?
Is the money for the house the same 100k?
Finding a house for a family of 5 in commuting distance to a workplace at that price can be a challenge, especially in the capital region.
If you move for a job, you would start with a 1 year residence permit, a 4 month trial period in the job and no credit history in Finland.
Banks tend to be reluctant to grant mortgages in such cases.
Last edited by FinlandGirl on Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?
No i would be bringing in excess of 1m euro with me in total.FinlandGirl wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:06 pmIs the money for the house the same 100k?
Finding a house for a family of 5 in commuting distance to a workplace at that price can be a challenge, especially in the capital region.
If you move for a job, you would start with a 1 year residence permit, a 4 month trial period in the job and no credit history in Finland.
Banks tend to be reluctant to grant mortgages in such cases.
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Re: Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?
In practice it does not matter that much for you.
If you have a good personal portfolio of relevant work experience, you should be able to get a job offer for a senior position with sufficient salary.
No company will hire you from abroad if equal local applicants (like foreign graduates of Finnish universities) are available.
There are not enough Finnish people with relevant degrees to fill all positions in IT, they are not your competition.
Job openings in Finland often receive many applications from people in countries like India with a relevant degree and job experience there.
A minimum bar is that your work experience has to be stronger than several years of working at an outsourcing company in India.
Re: Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?
I can work on more projects outside of work to bolster my portfolio too but i'm really worried about the after-tax salary requirement.FinlandGirl wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:56 pmIn practice it does not matter that much for you.
If you have a good personal portfolio of relevant work experience, you should be able to get a job offer for a senior position with sufficient salary.
No company will hire you from abroad if equal local applicants (like foreign graduates of Finnish universities) are available.
There are not enough Finnish people with relevant degrees to fill all positions in IT, they are not your competition.
Job openings in Finland often receive many applications from people in countries like India with a relevant degree and job experience there.
A minimum bar is that your work experience has to be stronger than several years of working at an outsourcing company in India.
It's a big undertaking since i would like to learn some Finnish before committing to the move and because we cannot move until some loose ends here etc are tied up and potentially until the world has stabilised RE: pandemic, i don't want to commit to it in my mind longer term if it then turns out i don't have the minerals for gaining a job that pays enough. Of course my wife could learn some Finnish and also look for work but the chance of that happening all at the same time is basically zero.
I appreciate all your efforts (along with Betelgeuse) but it's hard to know what to do without real specific numbers.
I guess your tax situation is harder to work out? Here in the UK, we simply take the salary, minus our percentage (20, 40 or 45%) and that gives us our after tax earnings.
I'm presuming i'd get some tax breaks for having children?
That's the only problem at the minute - i don't want to commit to something to only be made aware that it was basically impossible all along due to the minimum salary requirement.
I take it i'm not allowed to count income from another country? Say i have several thousand per year coming in from a business in another country, i can't count that because it's not coming from a Finnish registered business?
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Re: Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?
Taxation is progressive and factors like municipality of residence and church membership can make up to 6% difference in income taxation, the calculator from the tax office gives estimates for taxation (which includes mandatory social security payments like healthcare and pension):
https://www.vero.fi/en/individuals/tax- ... alculator/
It is really bitter that you did not move 6 months ago.
As EU citizen (or as UK citizen who moved before 1.1.2021) you could just have moved to Finland and say "sufficient means of support" when registering the right of residence for yourself and your family.
No need to wait for a decision on a residence permit.
No risk it might have been rejected.
No need to apply for extensions afterwards.
Right to start working immediately, but no requirement to work.
Right to study, and exemption from tuition fees.
You need both sufficient means of support and a reason for moving to Finland when applying for your residence permit.
The problematic part for you is the reason.
Companies won't hire you from abroad for a lower position unless it is worth for them waiting 4 months for a decision on a residence permit on the basis of work.
The decision will be negative if the employment office thinks there might be jobseekers available who could do the job instead of you.
Starting a business in Finland is unlikely to be a valid reason, unless you have already secured customers in Finland or have something that passes "high-growth startup" evaluations.
Moving for studies is the most realistic option, but it requires you to pass the entrance examination and make sufficient progress during your studies.
Re: Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?
Yes i agree this would make the most sense.FinlandGirl wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:35 pm
Moving for studies is the most realistic option, but it requires you to pass the entrance examination and make sufficient progress during your studies.
I take it one has to do an entrance exam for any study in Finland? Any idea what those are like? I have equivalent qualifications to be able to attend uni in the UK but it would be great to know in advance if there's an exam.
Lastly i know you showed me the chart and added up from the two different pages what i would need to show as 'support' money to study in Finland, but do you have any more concrete sources that show the amount specific to one who is studying? What i mean is the data for 'adult' + 'child 1' + 'child 2' + 'child 3' etc was taken from one page but the calculation of X euro per month for me was taken from another. Any idea if there is a student specific page showing this all in one place so i can clarify?
Also is there any advantage with me being a fully paying student when it comes to enrollment? I know in some UK universities they like international students since they pay more.
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Re: Moving from the UK - i have several options, which is best?
It doesn’t matter which country supplemental income is from as long as it can be transferred to Finland.