The '3 month rule'

[duncanl]

Hi, I have recently moved to Helsinki (been here about a month now) with partner and am currently looking for work and studying Finnish. My question is to do with how I obtain a Finnish Social security number- I have accomodation here and have registered my Finnish address with the Maistratti (Sp?) and also completed a change of address form from the Posti, I believe however that even as an EU (British) Cit I have to register with the immigration police in Malmi? I suppose I have 2 questions really, firstly what happens if i dont register, will i be kicked out after 3 months and secondly as I have been here a month and registered my new address etc immediately will i be able to 'backdate' so to speak with the immigration police?

[Mook]

how I obtain a Finnish Social security number?

Head along to Albertinkatu (the Maistratti) and ask for one. From what I remember, you don't need the residence permit to get it (I applied fro my residents permit and got the number on the same day)

After getting the number, it's a good thing to go to the HKL shop at the railway station and get one of those nice bus passes that are subsidised for Helsinki residents.

-Michael

[PeterF]

I believe however that even as an EU (British) Cit I have to register with the immigration police in Malmi? I suppose I have 2 questions really, firstly what happens if i dont register, will i be kicked out after 3 months and secondly as I have been here a month and registered my new address etc immediately will i be able to 'backdate' so to speak with the immigration police?

You are an EU citizen..so there is no booting out ....
Unless you dont plan to stay long it is no big deal to go register...I think you should do it within first 3 months or something like that if you intend to stay..they give u some time to make up your mind..hop into one of those photo cabins and take some mug shots..you will need them..toddle off to the cop shop and find the imigration dept..take one of the number tickets and wait your turn..I think when I did it they did actualy ask.."how long you been here.?.".....I reeled of a random date six weeks prevoius..and they accpeted it. I think they are quite relieved to deal with an EU citizen as it is nice and easy for them so you get a bit better treatment/service.
Oh BTW..If you have a job or job offer/ or place on a course, they will also ask for proff of that ...just a formality..you are EU.

[SediaAmore]

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[Jean-Albert]

Hi!

I was Erasmus student from France in Helsinki, and now I plan to stay and live in Finland, and work of course.
I'm registered to "maistraatti" as resident in Helsinki, but they did not give me the "finnish social security number". They said me that I need a work contract first and after I can ask for this number !
And when I go to MOL office to be register as jobseeker, they said me that I need the "finnish number" to be register !!!
This is a vicious circle, no !?

[Nathan Lillie]

Hi!

I was Erasmus student from France in Helsinki, and now I plan to stay and live in Finland, and work of course.
I'm registered to "maistraatti" as resident in Helsinki, but they did not give me the "finnish social security number". They said me that I need a work contract first and after I can ask for this number !
And when I go to MOL office to be register as jobseeker, they said me that I need the "finnish number" to be register !!!
This is a vicious circle, no !?

The Finnish social security number is something you get on your KELA card, and it is residence based. Most Finnish welfare-type benefits are also residence based, and you get your SS# when you get into that system (not necessarily through drawing benefits, just getting the card).

If you are French, you can live here without special permission, and are therefore entitled to residence based benefits, and get the social security number when you go to KELA. You don't need a work contract. You probably need to go to KELA first.

[Alicia]

I was asked how long I planned to stay when I applied for my number. I replied that I have a one year visa and I plan to extend it. So I signed a paper and got my number. It has made it so much easier than not having it as an American I know experienced.

[Mook]

You probably need to go to KELA first.

Are you sure that KELA issues the Social Security Number (HETU)?

When I arrived (following the great instructions from the big N) the number very definitely was given to me by the mastraati. I don't think that KELA normally registers births (which is when Finns get their HETU). Incidently, I didn't bother to get my Kela card until nearly a year later (when I had toothache)


-Michael

(A quick edit)
One last thought is that it's convenient to have a card with your HETU number on it, and probably a photo too (For instance my Kela card doesn't have a photo). The choices are: Finnish ID card, Finnish Driving licence or Kela Card.

[Dan]

A foreigner residing temporarily in Finland can also receive an identification number if he or she needs one, for example in order to work. The one requirement is that the person has to have a residence permit at least for the period of one year.

http://www.maistraatti.fi/en/docs/kotik ... .2.8.3.htm

[Nathan Lillie]

You probably need to go to KELA first.

Are you sure that KELA issues the Social Security Number (HETU)?

I'm sure you can get a SSN from KELA. At least that's where I got mine. I don't know that it's the only place you can get it from. I guess probably not.

[Hank W.]

As a sidenote: this "needing to register even I am EU" depends totally on your mileage. I haven't gotten to the different new EU countries' rules, but heres some differences between the different EEA nations:

The hippie style:

United Kingdom
European Community law gives EEA nationals a right to live and work in the UK. An EEA national has a right of residence in the UK if they are working or are able to support themselves without recourse to public funds. There is no time limit on an EEA national’s stay in the UK and no requirement to obtain a residence permit or to register with the police.

Ireland
EEA nationals are free to enter Ireland to live or work and are not required to complete any form of registration. An EEA national may apply for a residence permit if they so wish.

Netherlands
An EEA national who wishes to remain in the Netherlands for longer than 6 months must have health insurance which covers all risks. An EEA national is not obliged to apply for a residence permit but may find that proof of legal residence is useful. A residence permit is applied for at the Aliens Police in the district in which the applicant resides. The passport and two colour passport photographs are required. A fee of EUR26 is payable.

Then to the uptights:

Belgium
An EEA national may stay in Belgium for up to 3 months without obtaining a residence permit. For a stay of greater than 3 months, the EEA national and each family member must apply for a separate residence permit at the city hall in the city where they live within two weeks of arrival.


France
An EEA national may stay in France for up to 3 months provided they are financially self-supporting or may work for less than 3 months without requiring a residence permit. Should an EEA national intend to stay in France or work for more than 3 months, a residence permit “Carte de sejour” must be obtained. The application must be made to the nearest “Prefecture” of the police force to include the original passport, two photographs and a confirmation of employment from the employer. A medical certificate must also be provided. A spouse and children must follow the same procedure but a permit is not issued to children under 16 years of age.

Denmark
The State Counties are responsible for the issue of residence certificates for EEA nationals. An EEA national may stay in Denmark for up to 3 months provided they are financially self-supporting. If they are seeking employment or are actively employed, they are permitted to remain for up to 6 months. A stay exceeding either of these limits requires an EC/EEA residence certificate. This is a different document to the residence permit issued under the Danish Aliens Act to foreign workers.
The residence certificate is applied for from the local county authority (statsamt) where the EEA national resides. Once completed, the application form must be submitted in person.

Germany
An EEA national may stay in Germany for up to 3 months provided they are financially self-supporting or may work for less than 3 months without requiring a residence permit. Should an EEA national intend to stay in Germany or work for more than 3 months, a residence permit (Aufenthaltsgenehmigung) must be obtained from the local Foreign Nationals Authority (Auslanderamt). The permit is usually granted for a period of five years. Every resident in Germany, regardless of nationality, must register at special registration offices established by the municipalities, within one week of arriving in Germany. All subsequent changes must also be registered within one week.


Italy
EEA nationals are free to enter Italy to live or work but are required to obtain a Permit to Stay. Within 8 days of arrival in Italy, the EEA national has to apply to the Foreigner’s Bureau of the local police office, Questura, in the region in which they intend to reside for a permit of stay, Permesso di Soggiorno. The application takes between 1 and 4 weeks to process and the permit is usually granted for the same duration as the work authorisation up to a maximum of 2 years.

Sweden
An EEA national may stay in Sweden for up to 3 months without obtaining a residence permit. For a stay of greater than 3 months, the EEA national and each family member must apply for a separate residence permit. The permit may be applied for at the closest Migration Board Office in Sweden or from the Swedish consulate in the country of origin before travelling to Sweden. The advantage of having the residence permit prior to entry is that the EEA national is granted a national registration number as an official resident immediately on arrival. However the disadvantage is that the application can take months to process. Should the application be made in Sweden, the EEA national is free to enter employment whilst waiting for the residence permit to be granted. Nationals of Denmark, Finland, Iceland and Norway are not required to obtain residence permits.


So I think Finland is 1:1 with Germany with the registration rules (we were taught German bureaucracy.) added with the Swedish 'Nordic citizens' clauses. We're not quite as bad as Italians who want it done in 8 days, but Sweden seems to have the nice system of preapproving and giving you your Personal number as well. From people from Netherlands, UK and Eire you guys probably have the cows in the pasture with the yellow earrings better recorded in databases than people

[Hank W.]

You probably need to go to KELA first.

Are you sure that KELA issues the Social Security Number (HETU)?

I'm sure you can get a SSN from KELA. At least that's where I got mine. I don't know that it's the only place you can get it from. I guess probably not.

Well, the nuance is that the HETU is 'gotten' from by the Population Registry Centre, but as it has no public service outlets the "dealer" is either the Magistrates or KELA offices.

[mikebrads]

Are you sure that KELA issues the Social Security Number (HETU)?

I'm sure you can get a SSN from KELA. At least that's where I got mine. I don't know that it's the only place you can get it from. I guess probably not.

Well, the nuance is that the HETU is 'gotten' from by the Population Registry Centre, but as it has no public service outlets the "dealer" is either the Magistrates or KELA offices.

Ahh, once more a 2 line post from Hank makes it all clear.

When i got here, i went to the Magistrates for the SSN, Arrived some 7 working days later, he same day to imigration Police to register (can't remeber if they made me come back AFTER i had my SSN), then Tax office.
I STILL have not got my KELA card , really must get round to that

One piece of advice i would give is that you should take a native Finnish speaker along with you.
Although the staff at the govenment offices CAN speak English (and usually Very well), it is easier for them to speak Finnish , then they feel more comfortable, and are much easier to deal with

[Hank W.]

One piece of advice i would give is that you should take a native Finnish speaker along with you.
Although the staff at the govenment offices CAN speak English (and usually Very well), it is easier for them to speak Finnish , then they feel more comfortable, and are much easier to deal with

This might be a good service to start up some day.

Hank's Relocation Tmi

Getting all necessary papers filled 20,-
Going to Maistraatti 25,-
Going to police 25,- + 5,-/hour
Goink to KELA 50,-
Perkele said with force at the right time á 5,-

[lotta]

The hippie style:

United Kingdom
European Community law gives EEA nationals a right to live and work in the UK. An EEA national has a right of residence in the UK if they are working or are able to support themselves without recourse to public funds. There is no time limit on an EEA national’s stay in the UK and no requirement to obtain a residence permit or to register with the police.

As a side note to Hanks side note, Although you don't need a residence permit or need to register with the police you do need a NI number if you wish to work, and even if you are from the EU they insist on an interview and ask all sorts of crap about when you arrived in the UK how you plan to support yourself, details of bank acounts etc,

Then you do what I did, go along to the interview, and when they ask all these questions ask them why they need to know, tell them to mind thier own business, and they still give you the NI number.
Apparently they don'tn have different procedures for EU and Non EU applicants.