Citizenship by Declaration automatically passed to progeny?

[pierrot]

You used to get a German citizenship easier if you were of German descent monolingual Russian from the bend of the Volga easier than if you were a 3rd generation German-educated 'gastarbeiter' - so the logic there also was interesting.

The german nationality-law is based on race, unlike the french or US-nationality laws.
Because race is nowadays such a vague term, it is often enough to prove that one of your ancestrors was german (or that your family at some point had a german shepard dog like the germans use to say considering the large amount of russians discovering their "german" origins ) to ask for and receive the german citizenship.

[jwesthues]

The Finnish citizenship law goes even to grandparents for one reason IMHO - to facilitate "return immigration".

It's funny, the government wants to facilitate return immigration. But then getting work that will enable one to stay? That's another thing all together.

[Hank W.]

The classical one hand not knowing what the other does...

[Vera]

Regarding US citizenship, the US always considers a child born to a US citizen anywhere in the world a US citizen, unless they actively do something to lose it

This is not the case. US citizen has to have been physically present in the US for at least five years during his or her lifetime, two of which have to be after the age of fourteen, in order to be able to transmit US citizenship to his or her children. (Except when both parents are US citizens, in which case it's enough that one of them have lived in the US at some point.

Vera

[otyikondo]

Let's turn this one around. Just for the sake of continuing it. I am a naturalised Finn, by application. My children, now adult, are Finnish by declaration, having been officially added to the numbers at the same time as I joined up, and on the strength of their Finnish mother.

At the time they were born, citizenship then went automatically with the male line, and - gasp - religious affiliation went with the distaff side. Things have changed since then.

My understanding of matters is that my kids' kids, when and if they appear, will be Finnish. However, they may not be English, although any children *I* might still have (perish the thought) WILL be.

This was explained to me vaguely by someone at the Embassy in the mid-80s and relates apparently to a change in the UK rules brought in by dear old Baroness Barking-Mad in 1981.

I don't think my kids could give a hoot that their kids will possibly not be able to call Queen Brenda their sovereign, as they are fundamentally Finns and merely pass for English when they open their mouths (unless they talk about cricket 'n' Big Brother 'n'stuff), but it might be nice to get chapter and verse on whether this is so, and why.

[Rosamunda]

I was told the same thing. Mine were born in France out of wedlock to British mum and Finnish dad. They were on my passport and later had British passports of their own. When I tried to renew them last year I was told I would have to pay (big money) for a somethingsomething research as my children don't have British birth certificates... (I would have to pay for those too); producing the (still valid at the time) British passports issued by the consulate in Paris, was not enough

I was also told - but cannot remember the fancy wording - that my grandchildren would not have automatic British citizenship. Now.... going even further... as my children do not have automatic entitlement to French citizenship e-i-t-h-e-r (being born there ain't enough) one wonders what nationality my future grandchildren would acquire????

Anyway... problem solved now - I married their father and moved to Finland - they have Finnish (good value for money at 40€ each) passports so they can pass on Finnish citizenship to my grandchildren....

Note 3 – Section 2 – Birth outside the United
Kingdom* or a qualifying territory
If you were born outside the United Kingdom* or a qualifying
territory you may have a claim to British citizenship and/or
British Overseas Territories citizenship if you had a parent
or parents born in the United Kingdom* or a qualifying
territory.

The PDF file is here:

http://www.fco.gov.uk/Files/kfile/Notes%20C1,0.pdf

[otyikondo]

I was told the same thing. Mine were born in France out of wedlock to British mum and Finnish dad. They were on my passport and later had British passports of their own. When I tried to renew them last year I was told I would have to pay (big money) for a somethingsomething research as my children don't have British birth certificates... (I would have to pay for those too); producing the (still valid at the time) British passports issued by the consulate in Paris, was not enough

I was also told - but cannot remember the fancy wording - that my grandchildren would not have automatic British citizenship. Now.... going even further... as my children do not have automatic entitlement to French citizenship e-i-t-h-e-r (being born there ain't enough) one wonders what nationality my future grandchildren would acquire????

Anyway... problem solved now - I married their father and moved to Finland - they have Finnish (good value for money at 40€ each) passports so they can pass on Finnish citizenship to my grandchildren....

Note 3 – Section 2 – Birth outside the United
Kingdom* or a qualifying territory
If you were born outside the United Kingdom* or a qualifying
territory you may have a claim to British citizenship and/or
British Overseas Territories citizenship if you had a parent
or parents born in the United Kingdom* or a qualifying
territory.

The PDF file is here:

http://www.fco.gov.uk/Files/kfile/Notes%20C1,0.pdf

Thank you for da enlightenment, Penelope. The wedlock issue is not an issue in this case, so the kids got lumbered with UKness by right. I don't think either of them has bothered to renew their British passport for yonks, though, so if they choose to, it will be interesting to see what obstacles are put in the way. I hardly imagine there could be any, since we've got nice shiny birth certificates with seals, signed by the under-consul's under-butler or somesuch. If they do cut up rough, I shall rue the fact that Alyson Ambassador left for better things, as she seemed nice and she owed me a favour or two.

This still doesn't quite resolve the question of their offspring, however. As bona fide children of a British father, with a British birth certificate and all (albeit signed "Helsinki"), I'm not sure why the line has to stop with them.

Ahhhhh.... I have read the small print. They (the kids) were born outside the UK, but got in because of the "parent-rule", but THEIR scions (unless sneakily born in the UK or a "qualifying territory" - is that like a World Cup qualifier?) will merely be the sons and daughters of a "British" parent NOT born in the UK. So your birth certificate doesn't do you much good there, either, unless it says "Wanstead" or "Basingstoke" or "Milton Keynes" on it.

Ah well, not to worry. I hear the place has gone downhill badly.

[Rosamunda]

Yep, that's about it but if I remember correctly there's a modal in there somewhere, a "may" or a "might" or a "should" so I guess they do leave some room for negotiation. In France there is a consecutive years of residency rule which means that at least one of mine (born after 1st April 1993 when the law changed and before DDMMMYYYY when it re-changed back again) has automatic citizenship if he will have been (???) a permanent resident for so many years when he reaches 18 blah blah.... but I doubt if the "Club des Cinq" in Haukilahti or the Lycee Francais de Budapest count in the equation so they still won't qualify.

You might be right about it going downhill.... there's some fun stuff happening now the election is iminent. Never thought the Tories would play the immigration card, talk about clutching at straws.... glad I lost the right to vote yonks ago.