Moving from Mexico

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piccologatto
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:22 pm

Moving from Mexico

Post by piccologatto » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:44 pm

Hi! I have been reading a lot of information on this forum, which I truly appreciate.

I would like to get your advice on my situation, We are trying to make plans to move to Finland next year. We are in Mexico and my current income is about 900 Eur/month but I am able to save only about 20% of it due to life expenses. Right now we don't have any significant amount of saved money. Our goal was to save 9,000 Eur to cover travel expenses and the cost of living for the first few months while we settle. We still don't know how to get that money but we might sell our house if necessary.

I'm currently working on the IT sector (UX-UI Designer, Full Stack Developer). I am also studying a degree in foreign language teaching with specialization in Spanish. My wife and I are planning to move to Finland, because we want the best place to grow our children and it seems to be Finland. We are also teaching ourselves finnish, using several online resources and books, at least to have a basic understanding when we arrive.

I have been tracking some job boards for a few months and I feel I have the qualifications to apply to some of them, but I haven't done that since I don't want to waste an opportunity. Our A plan to move is based on the fact I get an IT job or a teaching job, so I can apply for a residence permit. I don't know how this will work for the rest of my family (3yo, 5yo and wife). Do you know?

Our plan B is to move as enterpreneurs. We have started a small handcraft shop that sells online. Right know this is not providing us a steady income. We are still in the phase of investing on it. Since it is online, we can move it to Finland to work on it. Is this possible?

We want to be there before our eldest son is 7yo, so he can start his formal education there. He just turned 5 a few months ago. Could you point me out to the right direction?

Thank you in advance for helping us to turn our dreams into reality.

Mike



Moving from Mexico

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Upphew
Posts: 10216
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:55 pm
Location: Lappeenranta

Re: Moving from Mexico

Post by Upphew » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:13 am

piccologatto wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:44 pm
Hi! I have been reading a lot of information on this forum, which I truly appreciate.

I would like to get your advice on my situation, We are trying to make plans to move to Finland next year. We are in Mexico and my current income is about 900 Eur/month but I am able to save only about 20% of it due to life expenses. Right now we don't have any significant amount of saved money. Our goal was to save 9,000 Eur to cover travel expenses and the cost of living for the first few months while we settle. We still don't know how to get that money but we might sell our house if necessary.

I'm currently working on the IT sector (UX-UI Designer, Full Stack Developer). I am also studying a degree in foreign language teaching with specialization in Spanish. My wife and I are planning to move to Finland, because we want the best place to grow our children and it seems to be Finland. We are also teaching ourselves finnish, using several online resources and books, at least to have a basic understanding when we arrive.

I have been tracking some job boards for a few months and I feel I have the qualifications to apply to some of them, but I haven't done that since I don't want to waste an opportunity. Our A plan to move is based on the fact I get an IT job or a teaching job, so I can apply for a residence permit. I don't know how this will work for the rest of my family (3yo, 5yo and wife). Do you know?

Our plan B is to move as enterpreneurs. We have started a small handcraft shop that sells online. Right know this is not providing us a steady income. We are still in the phase of investing on it. Since it is online, we can move it to Finland to work on it. Is this possible?

We want to be there before our eldest son is 7yo, so he can start his formal education there. He just turned 5 a few months ago. Could you point me out to the right direction?

Thank you in advance for helping us to turn our dreams into reality.

Mike
Better start to get the job. Getting residence permit based on entrepreneurship will be much more hassle. Ok you sell handicrafts, to whom? Have you looked at prices of Finnish post office, posti.fi? Teaching job won't, most likely, be enough for the income requirement set by migri.fi
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Visa is for visiting, Residence Permit for residing.


piccologatto
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:22 pm

Re: Moving from Mexico

Post by piccologatto » Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:11 pm

Upphew wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:13 am
Better start to get the job. Getting residence permit based on entrepreneurship will be much more hassle. Ok you sell handicrafts, to whom? Have you looked at prices of Finnish post office, posti.fi? Teaching job won't, most likely, be enough for the income requirement set by migri.fi
Thank you for your quick reply, Upphew.

That was my bet, to get the IT job and start from that point. I just want to make sure, how much do I have to make to have a comfortable life in the surroundings of Helsinki/Vanta/Espoo? (this is where I have found most of the jobs where I can suit and where the weather seems to be less extreme) We calculated around 3500 Eur minus taxes for the four of us, but we want to make sure. As you can imagine, that sounds like a lot of money to us. Almost what I currently make in a quarter.

I haven't looked at the post prices. Our market is mostly European and Asian, so we thought it will be easier from there. Thank you for the Post office website, I will check it carefuly.

From the inmigration perspective, we think this is going to be the process:
Are we missing something important? We are putting all our efforts on this and we truly want to make it possible. Our children deserves the best we can get for them...

Please continue providing us with input, all information is useful to us.

Thank you all and cheers from sunny Playa del Carmen (34ºC right now).


HannahBanana
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:55 pm

Re: Moving from Mexico

Post by HannahBanana » Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:20 am

You should take into consideration that here in Finland we pay a lot of taxes. My average gross income is about 3.300 euros a month, but after tax and workers comp and other mandatory expenses I'm left with approximately 2.300 in net wages, which means I pay about 1.000 euros a month in taxes and expenses and that is with all the deductions I can make (travel between work and home for example).

For you to be able to provide for your family (in Migri's eyes, in reality you'll get by with less, but it may not be comfortable) you should land a job that pays a gross wage of 4.500 euros minimum, preferably more. With progressive taxation the more you earn, the more you pay out... People in the 6.000e a month bracket bring home about 4.500e in net wages monthly.

As for your housing, you will be able to find something tp accommodate your family for 1.000e a month, but it won't be in Helsinki, so you'll have to commute. Best bet would be looking at Vantaa alonside train routes, as this would accommodate both your rental cap and ease of commute. Commuting by public transport between Helsinki and Vantaa is approximately 110e a month.


betelgeuse
Posts: 2863
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Moving from Mexico

Post by betelgeuse » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:25 am

HannahBanana wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:20 am
For you to be able to provide for your family (in Migri's eyes, in reality you'll get by with less, but it may not be comfortable) you should land a job that pays a gross wage of 4.500 euros minimum, preferably more. With progressive taxation the more you earn, the more you pay out... People in the 6.000e a month bracket bring home about 4.500e in net wages monthly.
The Migri tables are not binding. They are required to give permits with lower income if you can show them that it's enough to support the whole family. Granted meeting this burden is not trivial.


HannahBanana
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:55 pm

Re: Moving from Mexico

Post by HannahBanana » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:22 am

betelgeuse wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:25 am
The Migri tables are not binding. They are required to give permits with lower income if you can show them that it's enough to support the whole family. Granted meeting this burden is not trivial.
While this may be true, do you know what kind of proof would they require to from a person trying to claim they can sustain their family with less than Migri's minimums? I dread to even imagine the bureaucracy involved in that. All in all, there's no way to prove it without living in Finland first (as then you could use your bank statements as proof) and you can't live in Finland without an RP, so...

Also good to note that the application fee is 450e per person when done online, so not exactly cheap...


betelgeuse
Posts: 2863
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Moving from Mexico

Post by betelgeuse » Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:55 pm

HannahBanana wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:22 am
While this may be true, do you know what kind of proof would they require to from a person trying to claim they can sustain their family with less than Migri's minimums? I dread to even imagine the bureaucracy involved in that. All in all, there's no way to prove it without living in Finland first (as then you could use your bank statements as proof) and you can't live in Finland without an RP, so...
Things like rent would have to be nailed down beforehand. Bigger provides like SATO and VVO might agree to contracts before the RP process.


Tallasstraveler
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:35 am

Re: Moving from Mexico

Post by Tallasstraveler » Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:54 pm

HannahBanana wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:20 am
with progressive taxation the more you earn, the more you pay out... People in the 6.000e a month bracket bring home about 4.500e in net wages monthly.
I imagine I’m arguing semantics.. but that can’t be true. Otherwise you earning less gross, pay more by percentage than those who earn more. Or does the money high earners save in taxes, trickle down to help everyone beneath them like it does here.


Upphew
Posts: 10216
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:55 pm
Location: Lappeenranta

Re: Moving from Mexico

Post by Upphew » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:02 am

Tallasstraveler wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:54 pm
HannahBanana wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:20 am
with progressive taxation the more you earn, the more you pay out... People in the 6.000e a month bracket bring home about 4.500e in net wages monthly.
I imagine I’m arguing semantics.. but that can’t be true. Otherwise you earning less gross, pay more by percentage than those who earn more. Or does the money high earners save in taxes, trickle down to help everyone beneath them like it does here.
The more you earn, more you pay taxes. If you earn less, you'll pay less taxes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Finland
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Visa is for visiting, Residence Permit for residing.


HannahBanana
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:55 pm

Re: Moving from Mexico

Post by HannahBanana » Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:29 am

Tallasstraveler wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:54 pm
I imagine I’m arguing semantics.. but that can’t be true. Otherwise you earning less gross, pay more by percentage than those who earn more. Or does the money high earners save in taxes, trickle down to help everyone beneath them like it does here.

In Finland you need to be careful if you get a raise. This might actually put you in a higher tax bracket and you might end up losing money net. If I remember correctly, the income tax is capped at 55%, so at least you get to keep minimum of 45% (ish, as you need to add about 8% for the social security, pension and other payments), no matter how much you earn. :roll:

In reality people who have a choice, ie. the true high earners, get majority if not all of their wages in dividends. The taxation of dividends is capped at 36% and no pension payments etc., so you can probably see the attraction...


betelgeuse
Posts: 2863
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Moving from Mexico

Post by betelgeuse » Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:04 pm

HannahBanana wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:29 am
In Finland you need to be careful if you get a raise. This might actually put you in a higher tax bracket and you might end up losing money net. If I remember correctly, the income tax is capped at 55%, so at least you get to keep minimum of 45% (ish, as you need to add about 8% for the social security, pension and other payments), no matter how much you earn. :roll:
Finnish taxation does not work this way. It's your marginal rate that goes up. You will always have more money net. This page has graphs on how it works.

https://www.veronmaksajat.fi/luvut/Lask ... prosentit/
HannahBanana wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:29 am
In reality people who have a choice, ie. the true high earners, get majority if not all of their wages in dividends. The taxation of dividends is capped at 36% and no pension payments etc., so you can probably see the attraction...
You can't get wage as dividends. You can convert income to dividends. However, converting to dividends does not avoid pension payments. For YEL it does not matter if it's wages or dividends.


Upphew
Posts: 10216
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:55 pm
Location: Lappeenranta

Re: Moving from Mexico

Post by Upphew » Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:30 pm

HannahBanana wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:29 am
In reality people who have a choice, ie. the true high earners, get majority if not all of their wages in dividends. The taxation of dividends is capped at 36% and no pension payments etc., so you can probably see the attraction...
To get dividends you'll need to make profit with your company. Profit is taxed at 20%. Then you are left with the 4/5ths that you are able to take as dividends. 25% of that is taxed as capital income, if that sum is under the 8% capital gain on mathematical value of the stock. If it is over the 8% then 75% of dividends are taxed as income and 25% is tax free. Publicly listed corporations' dividends are always taxed 85% as capital income and 15% is tax free.
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Visa is for visiting, Residence Permit for residing.


betelgeuse
Posts: 2863
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Moving from Mexico

Post by betelgeuse » Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:27 pm

Upphew wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:30 pm
To get dividends you'll need to make profit with your company.
Dividends can be distributed from other sources than profit. Granted profits are the most common source.


Upphew
Posts: 10216
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:55 pm
Location: Lappeenranta

Re: Moving from Mexico

Post by Upphew » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:52 am

betelgeuse wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:27 pm
Upphew wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:30 pm
To get dividends you'll need to make profit with your company.
Dividends can be distributed from other sources than profit. Granted profits are the most common source.
Can you get those other sources to your company without paying the 20% tax?
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Visa is for visiting, Residence Permit for residing.


betelgeuse
Posts: 2863
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Moving from Mexico

Post by betelgeuse » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:08 pm

Upphew wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:52 am
Can you get those other sources to your company without paying the 20% tax?
Yes.


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