Violation of Finnish Aliens Act by Migri

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samsona112
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:07 pm

Violation of Finnish Aliens Act by Migri

Post by samsona112 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:19 pm

Hello

Maybe someone can give me some advice regarding my RP application in Finland

I am living in Finland and I am waiting for resident permit decision to be made (from 25.10.2018), to start working Finland

I applied for Finnish residence permit on a basis of work

I am non EU citizen

I have Estonian ‘’long-term resident’s EC’’ resident permit card and by law :
§ (Finnish Aliens Act, Section 60a (358/2007)) a decision … must be made within four months of the filing of the application
§ (Council Directive 2003/109/EC of 25 November 2003 concerning the status of third-country nationals who are long-term residents) Article 19 p.1 states ‘’ The competent national authorities shall process applications within four months from the date that these have been lodged.’’

By law i should have received RP decision by 25.02.2019 from Migri, but untill today I have not received it, even no TE Office decision.

I have wrote to Migri, sent them a complaint and even requested for expedited processing of my RP application, but no answer from them, they just answering ''thank you for your message''

As I am residing in Finland, it is very frustrating to just sit and wait the RP decision, I cant start working before I receive the decision...

What can I do about it, even Migri have to respect and follow the law, like we all have to do

TY in advance



Violation of Finnish Aliens Act by Migri

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wolf80
Posts: 477
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:43 pm
Location: Helsinki

Re: Violation of Finnish Aliens Act by Migri

Post by wolf80 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:27 am

samsona112 wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:19 pm
Hello

Maybe someone can give me some advice regarding my RP application in Finland

I am living in Finland and I am waiting for resident permit decision to be made (from 25.10.2018), to start working Finland

I applied for Finnish residence permit on a basis of work

I am non EU citizen

I have Estonian ‘’long-term resident’s EC’’ resident permit card and by law :
§ (Finnish Aliens Act, Section 60a (358/2007)) a decision … must be made within four months of the filing of the application
§ (Council Directive 2003/109/EC of 25 November 2003 concerning the status of third-country nationals who are long-term residents) Article 19 p.1 states ‘’ The competent national authorities shall process applications within four months from the date that these have been lodged.’’

By law i should have received RP decision by 25.02.2019 from Migri, but untill today I have not received it, even no TE Office decision.

I have wrote to Migri, sent them a complaint and even requested for expedited processing of my RP application, but no answer from them, they just answering ''thank you for your message''

As I am residing in Finland, it is very frustrating to just sit and wait the RP decision, I cant start working before I receive the decision...

What can I do about it, even Migri have to respect and follow the law, like we all have to do

TY in advance
Oh wow, you are really trying to make yourself popular with the authorities right from the start... Look, you can protest, you can complain to the authorities, but do you think that will make their decision any faster? It probably red-tapes your case and it takes even longer. You will not win against the authorities. Draw a number, take a seat, and wait your turn. Cooperate and be patient.

Otherwise, you will not have a good life in Finland, not with this mentality. This is not a country where complaining is a strategy that will help your case.


biryvih
Posts: 115
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:04 am

Re: Violation of Finnish Aliens Act by Migri

Post by biryvih » Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:59 am

Maybe time to move back to Estonia :beer_yum:


samsona112
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:07 pm

Re: Violation of Finnish Aliens Act by Migri

Post by samsona112 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:13 am

biryvih wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:59 am
Maybe time to move back to Estonia :beer_yum:
No, Estonia isn't the place i would like to live... I just have Estonian (EU) long term-residence (LTR) card, but I lived in Sweden, where it is possible to start working right away from the start with EU LTR card ... you don't have to wait the RP decision... I had good working offer here in Finland, so I assumed to get the RP decision as it is stated in the law, (4 months) but if Finnish government doesn't follow the law (isn't giving me the decision in time), then it is better to move back to Sweden then ;). Actually it's not a big difference between Sweden and Finland, both are pretty good welfare states


samsona112
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:07 pm

Re: Violation of Finnish Aliens Act by Migri

Post by samsona112 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:35 am

wolf80 wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:27 am
samsona112 wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:19 pm
Hello

Maybe someone can give me some advice regarding my RP application in Finland

I am living in Finland and I am waiting for resident permit decision to be made (from 25.10.2018), to start working Finland

I applied for Finnish residence permit on a basis of work

I am non EU citizen

I have Estonian ‘’long-term resident’s EC’’ resident permit card and by law :
§ (Finnish Aliens Act, Section 60a (358/2007)) a decision … must be made within four months of the filing of the application
§ (Council Directive 2003/109/EC of 25 November 2003 concerning the status of third-country nationals who are long-term residents) Article 19 p.1 states ‘’ The competent national authorities shall process applications within four months from the date that these have been lodged.’’

By law i should have received RP decision by 25.02.2019 from Migri, but untill today I have not received it, even no TE Office decision.

I have wrote to Migri, sent them a complaint and even requested for expedited processing of my RP application, but no answer from them, they just answering ''thank you for your message''

As I am residing in Finland, it is very frustrating to just sit and wait the RP decision, I cant start working before I receive the decision...

What can I do about it, even Migri have to respect and follow the law, like we all have to do

TY in advance
Oh wow, you are really trying to make yourself popular with the authorities right from the start... Look, you can protest, you can complain to the authorities, but do you think that will make their decision any faster? It probably red-tapes your case and it takes even longer. You will not win against the authorities. Draw a number, take a seat, and wait your turn. Cooperate and be patient.

Otherwise, you will not have a good life in Finland, not with this mentality. This is not a country where complaining is a strategy that will help your case.
Yes, people have to fight for their rights, nobody will give them for free. If government requires from me to follow the laws then the government itself have to follow the laws. Actually, maybe I wouldn't complain against it, if it would be the last place where to come, but I, and my employee, we are just tired to wait for it. I lived in and came from Sweden as I had very good job offer here in Finland, but if I have to wait (infinite time) for the RP to start working, then it is pointless for me to just sit here and wait... I agree, complaining will not help me resolve my case any faster, but with this kind of mentality, we wount make the world a better place, if I complain, then maybe in future other persons who might have similar problem will get their RP in time ;).


betelgeuse
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Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Violation of Finnish Aliens Act by Migri

Post by betelgeuse » Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:57 pm

samsona112 wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:19 pm
Article 19 p.1 states ‘’ The competent national authorities shall process applications within four months from the date that these have been lodged.’’

By law i should have received RP decision by 25.02.2019 from Migri, but untill today I have not received it, even no TE Office decision.
Maybe this applies:

"The time for processing an application may be extended by up to three months, if all the necessary documents are not submitted with the application or for some other special reason."

https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokse ... 040301.pdf
samsona112 wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:19 pm
I have wrote to Migri, sent them a complaint and even requested for expedited processing of my RP application, but no answer from them, they just answering ''thank you for your message''

As I am residing in Finland, it is very frustrating to just sit and wait the RP decision, I cant start working before I receive the decision...

What can I do about it, even Migri have to respect and follow the law, like we all have to do
You can make a complaint to the state ombudsman:

https://www.oikeusasiamies.fi/en_GB/web ... -ombudsman


samsona112
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:07 pm

Re: Violation of Finnish Aliens Act by Migri

Post by samsona112 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:34 pm

betelgeuse wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:57 pm

Maybe this applies:

"The time for processing an application may be extended by up to three months, if all the necessary documents are not submitted with the application or for some other special reason."

https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokse ... 040301.pdf
It is interesting , because in EU directive is noted that ''If an application is not accompanied by the documentary evidence listed in Articles 15 and 16, or in exceptional circumstances linked with the complexity of the examination of the application, the time limit referred to in the first subparagraph may be extended for a period not exceeding three months. In such cases the competent national authorities shall inform the applicant thereof.''

interesting part is that ''...In such cases the competent national authorities shall inform the applicant thereof.''

Migri have not informed me that my RP application time will be extended... But at the same time nothing is written about notifying an applicant in Finnish Aliens Act, it s little bit confusing.

Anyways EU directive should be above Finnish Aliens Act because it is international agreement. In EU directive is note too: ''Member States shall bring into force the laws, regulations and administrative provisions necessary to comply with this Directive by 23 January 2006 at the latest.''

Thank you for your useful reply )


betelgeuse
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Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Violation of Finnish Aliens Act by Migri

Post by betelgeuse » Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:04 pm

samsona112 wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:34 pm
Anyways EU directive should be above Finnish Aliens Act because it is international agreement. In EU directive is note too: ''Member States shall bring into force the laws, regulations and administrative provisions necessary to comply with this Directive by 23 January 2006 at the latest.''
That's not how directives work. They are not international agreements. They get legal effect through national legislation. If national legislation does not implement the directive properly, then there are processes to get the national legislation fixed.


betelgeuse
Posts: 2953
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Violation of Finnish Aliens Act by Migri

Post by betelgeuse » Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:07 pm

betelgeuse wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:04 pm
They get legal effect through national legislation.
For more information, check at least these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directive ... ean_Union)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_ef ... Directives


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browndude
Posts: 224
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:16 pm
Location: Helsinki

Re: Violation of Finnish Aliens Act by Migri

Post by browndude » Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:00 pm

samsona112 wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:13 am

(4 months) but if Finnish government doesn't follow the law (isn't giving me the decision in time), then it is better to move back to Sweden then ;). Actually it's not a big difference between Sweden and Finland, both are pretty good welfare states
Haha, Finland is not Sweden. Two things you said here bound to get the blood of the Teuvo Hakkarainen types boiling :twisted:

1. Talking about how good the welfare state is over here - they will think you are a lazy foreigner who wants to mooch off Finnish taxpayers.

2. Don't complain about how horrible the country is at such an early stage - you can start doing that after you have lived here for 10 years or so.

But seriously, this is how things are in Finland and I do not think they are going to change any time soon. Immigrants are not as welcome anymore (they never were to be honest). Considering your expectations, and since you have the option, Sweden might be better for you.
ImageImage


samsona112
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:07 pm

Re: Violation of Finnish Aliens Act by Migri

Post by samsona112 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:50 pm

Hehee, very interesting discussion here, blood is boiling and I m just enjoying it )), You wanted European Union, and now you ll get it )), EU dictates to you, when and how you need to change your laws, through directives and you cant do nothing about it :D, I believe it is frustrating , but thats how things work nowadays. One possible option would be referendum like in UK ''Brexit'', it would be something like FinXit or FiXit ))).
Ok joking, but thank you guys for a great discussion here ) :thumbsup:


biryvih
Posts: 115
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:04 am

Re: Violation of Finnish Aliens Act by Migri

Post by biryvih » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:40 am

I don't think the "blood will boil" thing is necessarily true. Maybe for some, not for me. My issue is, the first thing you did is complain, rather than finding a solution in a normal manner.

You want to criticize everything, go for it. It is your right to do so. But what I don't understand is, you consider yourself a smart person (good for you) and you found some loophole to get the Estonian EU card, so you can work in Sweden and than you had an offer in Finland, so you simply left your job in Sweden? Without learning how things work in Finland?

You could apply in Finland and continue working in Sweden. Your time won't go to waste and everyone would be happy (hope so).

Nowadays everyone feels so entitled for some unknown reasons. But hey good for you.
You seems like a smart person, who sometimes makes pretty dumb moves. Anyway good luck with your "cry baby, changing the world" stuff. World doesn't really change with complains. World change with right decisions and with right moves. :beer_yum:


samsona112
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:07 pm

Re: Violation of Finnish Aliens Act by Migri

Post by samsona112 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:06 pm

biryvih wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:40 am
I don't think the "blood will boil" thing is necessarily true. Maybe for some, not for me. My issue is, the first thing you did is complain, rather than finding a solution in a normal manner.
yes i tried to find a solution in a ''normal manner'' , I tried to get connected with Migri, called them, wrote to them, requested faster processing, but nothing worked, they just ignoring, or saying ''thank you for your message'' or ''at this stages we cant give any comments about your case'', so I tried, before complaining...
biryvih wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:40 am
You want to criticize everything, go for it. It is your right to do so. But what I don't understand is, you consider yourself a smart person (good for you) and you found some loophole to get the Estonian EU card, so you can work in Sweden and than you had an offer in Finland, so you simply left your job in Sweden? Without learning how things work in Finland?
No I did nt searched for some kind of loopholes to get EU (Est.) LTR card , I lived-worked in Estonia for 5,5 years and I just got it. I did nt left my job in Sweden, I just left the Sweden, you know, working in IT sector, you are mobile and can work everywhere where is internet... So I m still working for Swedish company, but in Finland I got better offer, in my friends company, so decided to move here, it is more comfortable to live here for me because, some of my relatives lives here, I am Russian, more my friends here from Russia and from Estonia as well. And I m not criticizing everything, just this, where i can see that my rights were violated, nothing more
biryvih wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:40 am
Without learning how things work in Finland?
Yes I learned how things should be working in Finland, Finnish aliens act says, RP should be given within 4 months. Migri official website sayd that expedited processing time is 4 months, the law and official immigration web site said one thing, but who knew that in reality are things a little bit different...how should I knew that Finnish immigration service policy is to violate his own laws ?
biryvih wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:40 am
Nowadays everyone feels so entitled for some unknown reasons. But hey good for you.
You seems like a smart person, who sometimes makes pretty dumb moves. Anyway good luck with your "cry baby, changing the world" stuff. World doesn't really change with complains. World change with right decisions and with right moves. :beer_yum:
You cant say something like that without knowing all aspects of my life, and as I see it, there are nt no ''dumb'' moves made, so what that I complained, what they will do, refuse to give RP in Finland because I complained, it s ridiculous. They will take even longer to decide, I have nothing to lose, anyways they do not follow the law and I am still working and making my money. I just had an opportunity to Complain and change something, and it was nt hard for me to do so, so yes I did it. And by the way as I see it, exactly world is changing through Complaints, because in this situation, it is only right decision and move to do so, for example, if people complain that their rights were violated to national ombudsman, he will make his recommendation to parliament, parliament will make changes, or corrections in the national laws,
or complaining to Eu Comission, they will transfer complaint to EU pilot, they will collect some data and then start infringement procedures, yes it is long procedure, but at the end things will change, because violation of EU directive is obvious, and all of this intra-EU mobility right protection instruments, they are free for charge

:beer_yum: :beer_yum: :beer_yum:


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wolf80
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Location: Helsinki

Re: Violation of Finnish Aliens Act by Migri

Post by wolf80 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:47 pm

It's not 'boiling blood', it's laughing about you. People with that attitude always fail in Finland, sooner or later.


biryvih
Posts: 115
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Re: Violation of Finnish Aliens Act by Migri

Post by biryvih » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:35 pm

All I see is an entitled person trying desperately to have a bone to pick with someone :thumbsup: I don't get why people are so desperate to get attention? I wish I had that much free time, to complain about stuff. There is no reason for Migri to make your process faster, just because you're a special snowflake and desperate for attention. Your application will be dealt, when your turn will come. And until now, I don't think any of your rights have been violated. If you think your rights have been violated, than I'd say get a lawyer and pursue your case against Migri. I don't think you have any chance to win, because so far no one has violated anything. But you should go for it. :beer_yum:

The problem is, not everyone sees the world thru your eyes. Not everyone is an entitled snowflake unfortunately. A lot of people simply go through the process and try to understand the pressure which authorities have to deal with. So, it's more like an empathy thing. But of course it will be hard for you to understand, because snowflake syndrome. And world doesn't really change by running from your mother land and than complain about other countries. Maybe start from there? :beer_yum:


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