Need advices

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facealeksandra
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:18 pm

Need advices

Post by facealeksandra » Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:36 am

Hello everybody
I was living in Helsinki,my request of asilement was rejected,they ask me to go home,I escaped and stay illegal,after that I knew a woman,we were married islamicly,not in maistraiti,I got daughter from her,after living one year with my daughter,I got negative from request of resident permit as guardian of my daughter,they said that I made a child to got a resident permit,and that I made her and I was knowing that I don't have a chance to stay in Finland as I escaped from deportation, with this decision a new deportation order with ban of 2 years,I come back to my country,get negative for my appeal to adminstrative court and high court,I applied again for resident permit as guardian, and got again negative from migri,I didn't saw my daughter for more than 2 years,if I don't go there I will lose her,it seems that I don't have any chance to get something from any court,I think that appealing again is just waste of time,I would like to hear advises , thanks for helping.



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FinnGuyHelsinki
Posts: 1078
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:52 pm

Re: Need advices

Post by FinnGuyHelsinki » Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:24 pm

You were not granted an asylum and your application for residence permit based on family ties was denied. Your other options are work and study based residence permits, for which - obviously - you'll need a job or a place of study. Whatever you decide to do, stop breaking the law if you plan to live in the country.

FinlandGirl
Posts: 395
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: Need advices

Post by FinlandGirl » Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:33 pm

FinnGuyHelsinki wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:24 pm
You were not granted an asylum and your application for residence permit based on family ties was denied. Your other options are work and study based residence permits, for which - obviously - you'll need a job or a place of study.
There are no other options, and a job or a place of study would not change the fact that the general requirements for entry into Finland are not fulfilled.

FinnGuyHelsinki
Posts: 1078
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:52 pm

Re: Need advices

Post by FinnGuyHelsinki » Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:46 pm

FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:33 pm
FinnGuyHelsinki wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:24 pm
You were not granted an asylum and your application for residence permit based on family ties was denied. Your other options are work and study based residence permits, for which - obviously - you'll need a job or a place of study.
There are no other options, and a job or a place of study would not change the fact that the general requirements for entry into Finland are not fulfilled.
What do you mean "there are no other options"? Residency can be granted also based on work and studies, the OP at least didn't say having tried those already. As I understood the 2 year ban for entry has already passed. All criteria apply, of course, I have no idea of OP's situation otherwise, what requirements may or may not have been fulfilled and if it's something that can be changed, e.g. by earning money.

FinlandGirl
Posts: 395
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: Need advices

Post by FinlandGirl » Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:55 pm

FinnGuyHelsinki wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:46 pm
FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:33 pm
FinnGuyHelsinki wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:24 pm
You were not granted an asylum and your application for residence permit based on family ties was denied. Your other options are work and study based residence permits, for which - obviously - you'll need a job or a place of study.
There are no other options, and a job or a place of study would not change the fact that the general requirements for entry into Finland are not fulfilled.
What do you mean "there are no other options"? Residency can be granted also based on work and studies, the OP at least didn't say having tried those already. As I understood the 2 year ban for entry has already passed. All criteria apply, of course, I have no idea of OP's situation otherwise, what requirements may or may not have been fulfilled and if it's something that can be changed, e.g. by earning money.
The stated reason for rejection was not lack of money, and the requirements that are not fulfilled apply to all residence permits.

FinnGuyHelsinki
Posts: 1078
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:52 pm

Re: Need advices

Post by FinnGuyHelsinki » Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:19 pm

FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:55 pm
FinnGuyHelsinki wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:46 pm
FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:33 pm


There are no other options, and a job or a place of study would not change the fact that the general requirements for entry into Finland are not fulfilled.
What do you mean "there are no other options"? Residency can be granted also based on work and studies, the OP at least didn't say having tried those already. As I understood the 2 year ban for entry has already passed. All criteria apply, of course, I have no idea of OP's situation otherwise, what requirements may or may not have been fulfilled and if it's something that can be changed, e.g. by earning money.
The stated reason for rejection was not lack of money, and the requirements that are not fulfilled apply to all residence permits.
Yes, the stated reason for denial was for residence permit based on family ties (guardianship). Which requirements does the OP not fulfill for any and all residence permits? I'm asking since to me it isn't evident from what was said.

FinlandGirl
Posts: 395
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Re: Need advices

Post by FinlandGirl » Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:26 pm

FinnGuyHelsinki wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:19 pm
FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:55 pm
FinnGuyHelsinki wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:46 pm


What do you mean "there are no other options"? Residency can be granted also based on work and studies, the OP at least didn't say having tried those already. As I understood the 2 year ban for entry has already passed. All criteria apply, of course, I have no idea of OP's situation otherwise, what requirements may or may not have been fulfilled and if it's something that can be changed, e.g. by earning money.
The stated reason for rejection was not lack of money, and the requirements that are not fulfilled apply to all residence permits.
Yes, the stated reason for denial was for residence permit based on family ties (guardianship). Which requirements does the OP not fulfill for any and all residence permits?
"You are not a danger to public order and security."
FinnGuyHelsinki wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:19 pm
I'm asking since to me it isn't evident from what was said.
What was said is:
facealeksandra wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:36 am
I was living in Helsinki,my request of asilement was rejected,they ask me to go home,I escaped and stay illegal,after that I knew a woman,we were married islamicly,not in maistraiti,I got daughter from her,after living one year with my daughter,I got negative from request of resident permit as guardian of my daughter,they said that I made a child to got a resident permit,and that I made her and I was knowing that I don't have a chance to stay in Finland as I escaped from deportation,
It is not realistic that a residence permit for studies or work would be granted to someone who is known to have recently lived illegally in Finland for 2 years.

facealeksandra
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:18 pm

Re: Need advices

Post by facealeksandra » Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:51 pm

Thank you all,yes in the reason for my negatives they are putting that with breaking the order of deportation and be illegal for one year and half, with this I'm a danger for public order,but my question is ,my daughter is Finnish,she is 3 years old,the negative effects on my daughter to don't have family life with her father is bigger than the danger of breaking law, plus that I obeyed the second deportation order,is this what I will say to administrative court, thank you all

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rinso
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Re: Need advices

Post by rinso » Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:05 pm

,my daughter is Finnish,she is 3 years old,the negative effects on my daughter to don't have family life with her father is bigger than the danger of breaking law
You were not married when she was born, so officially you are not the father. (Unless you did the paternity claim, which is difficult when you are illegal.)
The (administrative) court is not interested in what you say, but in what the law says. And that doesn't look good for you.

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fintel
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:00 pm

Re: Need advices

Post by fintel » Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:44 pm

facealeksandra wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:36 am
Hello everybody
I was living in Helsinki,my request of asilement was rejected,they ask me to go home,I escaped and stay illegal,after that I knew a woman,we were married islamicly,not in maistraiti,I got daughter from her,after living one year with my daughter,I got negative from request of resident permit as guardian of my daughter,they said that I made a child to got a resident permit,and that I made her and I was knowing that I don't have a chance to stay in Finland as I escaped from deportation, with this decision a new deportation order with ban of 2 years,I come back to my country,get negative for my appeal to adminstrative court and high court,I applied again for resident permit as guardian, and got again negative from migri,I didn't saw my daughter for more than 2 years,if I don't go there I will lose her,it seems that I don't have any chance to get something from any court,I think that appealing again is just waste of time,I would like to hear advises , thanks for helping.
I will give you real world advice here (as your friend and sympathetic to your young child).

FORGET FINLAND ASAP.

Once you apply for refugee status, you will always be treated like a refugee or a failed asylum seeker. No marriage, no child birth, no place of study, no university, no masters or PHd, no qualification or big salary job, no work permit, no language skills, nothing will change that. You will always be a failed asylum seeker.

On top of that you disobeyed a deportation order and that is something migri can never forget. You are simply seen as wanting to increase your chances to stay in the host country (Finland) and also seen as danger to society. This is very common in europe that a failed asylum seeker wants to get married for papers because there are no other legal avenues available to them.

However, I personally feel that a Finnish child has a humanitarian right to be able to see her father and that should be grounds enough for a superior court to rule in your favor if you do not have any criminal history. The task here is rather difficult and would require a very good lawyer and long effort. But you have already done this so I am not sure what else can you do with Finland.

If I were you, I would establish myself in another country (Qatar, Panama, Uruguay or wherever) by getting a work visa, work hard, make some money so you can support her and then invite your daughter to live there with you if she wants. Remember that you are useless to your daughter if you do not have any rights in the country that you live in, cannot work there, or make a career for yourself. If you are always scared of the knock on your door, whether it's the police or the border guard. How can you live a life in that country?

Do not waste any more time applying to Finland.
Last edited by fintel on Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:59 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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FinlandGirl
Posts: 395
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: Need advices

Post by FinlandGirl » Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:06 pm

fintel wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:44 pm
If I were you, I would establish myself in another country (Qatar, Panama, Uruguay or wherever) by getting a work visa, work hard, make some money so you can support her and then invite your daughter to live there with you if she wants.
That's complete nonsense, did you even bother read what is being discussed?
The daughter is 3 years old.
fintel wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:44 pm
Remember that you are useless to your daughter
You clearly don't have children.
No small child would consider a parent useless.
fintel wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:44 pm
if you do not have any rights in the country that you live in, cannot work there, or make a career for yourself.
A residence permit based on family ties includes the right to work.

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fintel
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:00 pm

Re: Need advices

Post by fintel » Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:23 pm

FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:06 pm
fintel wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:44 pm
If I were you, I would establish myself in another country (Qatar, Panama, Uruguay or wherever) by getting a work visa, work hard, make some money so you can support her and then invite your daughter to live there with you if she wants.
That's complete nonsense, did you even bother read what is being discussed?
The daughter is 3 years old.
fintel wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:44 pm
Remember that you are useless to your daughter
You clearly don't have children.
No small child would consider a parent useless.
fintel wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:44 pm
if you do not have any rights in the country that you live in, cannot work there, or make a career for yourself.
A residence permit based on family ties includes the right to work.
I will ignore anything FinlandGirl has to say because she talks like she just finished high school and worked as a legal assistant for a third rate lawyer in Oulu.

I would consider myself a useless parent if I cannot provide for my own kid. It has nothing to do with you as a person, only your unfortunate circumstances. Also emotional attachment aside, there is no real world possibility of family reunification here, not in Finland. I am talking about this objectively, considering the subjective circumstances of the parent, and not from the point of view of a child. You have a very bad relationship with Finland. It was bad when your asylum was refused, it got worse when you disobeyed your deportation order, and it became impossible when you were finally deported on your second deportation order. The courts have also disagreed with you. Get a clue my friend. Open your eyes. Finland is not happening.

I have seen 3 year old kids move to another country -- happens all the time. It's very easy, you just put the kid on a plane they are on their way to living their lives with their family in another country. I was 5 years old when I moved to Qatar. Best decision of my life. I lived with my dad and we never talked about Finland. I didn't even know if it existed. A carpenter there makes the same money as one in Finland.

A residence permit based on family ties that includes right to work. That's right, so tell me who is going to give this residence permit to him? Finland is not going to give it. And If he continues to listen to your silly advice, I am afraid he is going to spend another decade trying to move to Finland with zero success.

I have worked with refugees and failed asylum seekers for 20 years. Please ignore FinlandGirl and listen to me. Go to some other country and invite your family there. Saudi Arabia , Costa Rica, Oman, Singapore, all great for raising families. Think of your problem objectively, a father and a daughter wants to live together in the same country. This does not have to be FInland. Don't make this about Finland. Make it about you living together with your family and find a solution elsewhere. There are 194 other countries to consider.
Last edited by fintel on Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:18 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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facealeksandra
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:18 pm

Re: Need advices

Post by facealeksandra » Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:32 pm

Thank you all so much, every one of you had right in a part of what he wrote, thank you so much for your help and good feeling torse my daughter,she is really my life,they have took me from her,it's true that I'm guilty to desobey deportation order, and to made a child in situation like that,but what is her fault,to be raised without her father,I'm so hurt and so tired,I was with her every day, now she doesn't even know me when she just Saw me on the phone, for rinso I want to say that,yes I proofed my paternity,and her mother had even gave me custody with her, it's with custody that I applied two times,2 negative from migri,one from administrative court,one from higher court, you was right in your advice, that I need to forget Finland,and see solutions otherwise,but I don't loose nothing with another appeal to adminstrative court ,I will also write to European court of Human rights,but I will not wait nothing from them,I need to move myself to see a solution in other countries, thank you so much for you all.

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fintel
Posts: 175
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Re: Need advices

Post by fintel » Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:56 pm

...
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FinlandGirl
Posts: 395
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: Need advices

Post by FinlandGirl » Fri May 01, 2020 3:34 am

facealeksandra wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:32 pm
but what is her fault,to be raised without her father
...
I will also write to European court of Human rights,but I will not wait nothing from them,
In practice you need a lawyer to determine when and how to appeal to the ECHR.
ECHR, Jeunesse v. the Netherlands wrote: 108. Another important consideration is whether family life was created at a time when the persons involved were aware that the immigration status of one of them was such that the persistence of that family life within the host State would from the outset be precarious. It is the Court’s well-established case-law that, where this is the case, it is likely only to be in exceptional circumstances that the removal of the non-national family member will constitute a violation of Article 8.
109. Where children are involved, their best interests must be taken into account. On this particular point, the Court reiterates that there is a broad consensus, including in international law, in support of the idea that in all decisions concerning children, their best interests are of paramount importance. Whilst alone they cannot be decisive, such interests certainly must be afforded significant weight. Accordingly, national decision-making bodies should, in principle, advert to and assess evidence in respect of the practicality, feasibility and proportionality of any removal of a non-national parent in order to give effective protection and sufficient weight to the best interests of the children directly affected by it.
Note that the ECHR does not say that Article 8 means that the interest of the child is the only thing that matters, the other circumstances of the case are also important.


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