Family life

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facealeksandra
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:18 pm

Family life

Post by facealeksandra » Sun May 10, 2020 5:06 pm

Hi everybody

I got negative in my resident permit as guardian of my daughter,I have wrote before about that,they give negative for many reasons,but I would like to discuss about the reason that I will not lead a family life with her,
I told them that I'm not related with her mother anymore,so I will not live with her and that she is used to be with her mother and brothers, now that I'm deported for more than 2 years,but when she grows I would like to take her with me,so my point please what is family life, that I'm taking her every weekend with me will not be considered as family life, and that I live near her to see her every day is not family life, how I can help myself in this point if I would make an appeal, because I'm not sure to make it , because it looks like I don't have any chance,thanks for help.



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fintel
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:00 pm

Re: Family life

Post by fintel » Sun May 10, 2020 5:59 pm

facealeksandra wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 5:06 pm
Hi everybody

I got negative in my resident permit as guardian of my daughter,I have wrote before about that,they give negative for many reasons,but I would like to discuss about the reason that I will not lead a family life with her,
I told them that I'm not related with her mother anymore,so I will not live with her and that she is used to be with her mother and brothers, now that I'm deported for more than 2 years,but when she grows I would like to take her with me,so my point please what is family life, that I'm taking her every weekend with me will not be considered as family life, and that I live near her to see her every day is not family life, how I can help myself in this point if I would make an appeal, because I'm not sure to make it , because it looks like I don't have any chance,thanks for help.
Things going against you right now my friend:

1. You claimed refugee status in Finland before your daughter was born and this claim was rejected. You fingerprints were entered into the EURODAC system and now you will be viewed as a refugee all across europe and anytime you apply again for a resident permit in europe.

2. You stayed in Finland illegally for 1.5 years after a negative decision was issued on your asylum application.

3. During this time you had a daughter with a Finnish citizen, your daughter is also a Finnish Citizen.

4. You claimed family ties to the child and applied for family based permit.

5. Migri decided that you were a desperate person wanting to extend your stay in Finland and that's why you gave birth to a child. Not to be a family man but just to extend your stay in Finland. This happened because you had your previous asylum case refused. In other words, you started off on the wrong foot.

6. You were given a deportation order to leave Finland and you disobeyed the deportation order.

7. You were finally deported when you submitted yourself to the second deportation order.

8. You appealed to the courts and your appeals were dismissed by the courts, first by the administrative court and then the higher court.

9. Your current partner does not want to continue this relationship.

10. You now wish to apply again and be able to see your daughter on the weekends etc.

On the merit of your circumstances, I advised you to find some other country, other than Finland, to start a new life and save some money so you can support your daughter in future and hope to be able to see her outside of Finland. Other advice you got was to apply again on family ties. I think a good humanitarian lawyer can help you in your case. I hope you can see your daughter again.

Good luck!
Last edited by fintel on Sun May 10, 2020 6:26 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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facealeksandra
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:18 pm

Re: Family life

Post by facealeksandra » Sun May 10, 2020 6:09 pm

Thank you fintel, just to correct, that I didn't obey the first deportation when my asilement was refused,but I obeyed the second deportation, when I got negative for my resident permit was rejected and I got a ban,so I obeyed and come back home, and I applied again last August, and got negative again this march,I still didn't get the decision on my hands, when I will I would know more and exactly what they use as reason, I'm thinking of other country or even to stay home, and wish met my daughter one day,but let's see that may be I don't loose nothing to appeal,thank again

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fintel
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:00 pm

Re: Family life

Post by fintel » Sun May 10, 2020 6:29 pm

facealeksandra wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 6:09 pm
Thank you fintel, just to correct, that I didn't obey the first deportation when my asilement was refused,but I obeyed the second deportation, when I got negative for my resident permit was rejected and I got a ban,so I obeyed and come back home, and I applied again last August, and got negative again this march,I still didn't get the decision on my hands, when I will I would know more and exactly what they use as reason, I'm thinking of other country or even to stay home, and wish met my daughter one day,but let's see that may be I don't loose nothing to appeal,thank again
I knew a man in United States who was deported back to his country. His daughter stayed back in USA with the mother. He was able to start a new life in Dubai, UAE. He worked as a taxi driver for a year in dubai and then opened up a restaurant. He now makes a good living. His daughter is able to come to Dubai every 6 months or so to see him. The family is now planning to start a new life in UAE where the daughter will go to an American school there.
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rinso
Posts: 3905
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Re: Family life

Post by rinso » Sun May 10, 2020 6:50 pm

Thank you all , Finlandgirl fintel and rinso,my daughter now is with her Finnish mother, I'm not in relation with her mother anymore,she didn't want to sacrifice anything with me, don't want to bring my daughter for me even for fiew days,but it's true that I need to make my life somewhere,and wait for time that my daughter can come to me by herself if I don't succeed to go to her even for visiting not to live with her there.
You wrote this 10 days ago. If the mother does not cooperate there is very little you can do (with your history). Like fintel story says; create a good life for yourself and wait till your daughter can decide for herself.

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fintel
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:00 pm

Re: Family life

Post by fintel » Mon May 11, 2020 1:41 am

facealeksandra wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 5:06 pm
Hi everybody

I got negative in my resident permit as guardian of my daughter,I have wrote before about that,they give negative for many reasons,but I would like to discuss about the reason that I will not lead a family life with her,
I told them that I'm not related with her mother anymore,so I will not live with her and that she is used to be with her mother and brothers, now that I'm deported for more than 2 years,but when she grows I would like to take her with me,so my point please what is family life, that I'm taking her every weekend with me will not be considered as family life, and that I live near her to see her every day is not family life, how I can help myself in this point if I would make an appeal, because I'm not sure to make it , because it looks like I don't have any chance,thanks for help.
If you do not have a schengen ban, you can perhaps apply for a study or work permit in another EU country and then occasionally meet your daughter by asking her to visit you with the permission of the mother. I hear there are lots of jobs in Sweden, Malta, Poland.
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facealeksandra
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:18 pm

Re: Family life

Post by facealeksandra » Mon May 11, 2020 2:46 am

Thanks for fintel and rinso,I will survive wherever happens, and I will forget with time, and pain in my heart will go with days, it's my fault at the end,I need to pay.

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fintel
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:00 pm

Re: Family life

Post by fintel » Mon May 11, 2020 5:41 pm

facealeksandra wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 5:06 pm
I got negative in my resident permit as guardian of my daughter,I have wrote before about that,they give negative for many reasons,but I would like to discuss about the reason that I will not lead a family life with her.
God sometimes calls upon the most righteous to sacrifice ties with their family.

Image

A church pastor once told me of his lifelong fascination with the account of Abraham and Isaac in the Bible. God tests Abraham's faith by commanding him to take his son Isaac to a mountain and sacrifice him; Abraham has absolute faith in God and so follows the command. At that moment, God sees that Abraham's faith and obedience are complete and sends an angel to stop the sacrifice and save his son. The father and son return home with the boy and live a happy family life afterwards.
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suomynona.yllatot
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:38 pm

Re: Family life

Post by suomynona.yllatot » Tue May 12, 2020 10:35 am

fintel wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 5:41 pm
God sometimes calls upon the most righteous to sacrifice ties with their family.
One of the most brazen misuse of the "Word". In claiming so, you are stating that a) God has asked him to do it, b) he is righteous (to be precise on your calling out the issue, the OP is unmarried, has a child out of wedlock, and disobeyed the authorities (Romans 13)! :twisted:
fintel wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 1:41 am
If you do not have a schengen ban, you can perhaps apply for a study or work permit in another EU country and then occasionally meet your daughter by asking her to visit you with the permission of the mother. I hear there are lots of jobs in Sweden, Malta, Poland.
To add to that, if you DO have a Schengen ban, all applications will be viewed negatively.
fintel wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 5:59 pm
5. Migri decided that you were a desperate person wanting to extend your stay in Finland and that's why you gave birth to a child. Not to be a family man but just to extend your stay in Finland. This happened because you had your previous asylum case refused. In other words, you started off on the wrong foot.
Migri is not really the epitome of consistency, nor have any grounds to claim a higher moral ground, or even a judicious understanding. In fact, on a rate of competency as the base definition of the word, Migri probably falls the worst. Look at the number of cases they have lost in court, the number of times they have been criticised. KELA's down there as well. Of recent even Business Finland.

On a related note, and I have often said this bluntly, most recently to a Finnish acquaintance who is a long term resident of Sweden who complained that the Finnish speaking community was treated as second class citizens. I gave him quite a piece of my mind.

Here's how I see it, and yes, I put Finns to shame on this: Finns claim to be outspoken, they are NOT. They are outspoken only when it comes to other cultures, and putting down other countries. They are NOT open when somebody criticizes Finland. In my mind, that is hypocrisy. I am the brazen antagonist that frustrates them, I not only say it, I ensure there is an insult included.
fintel wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 5:59 pm
8. You appealed to the courts and your appeals were dismissed by the courts, first by the administrative court and then the higher court.
You know the OP case? OR?
fintel wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 5:59 pm
9. Your current partner does not want to continue this relationship.
10. You now wish to apply again and be able to see your daughter on the weekends etc.
Look and highlight the case from the other side.
1. The partner not wanting to continue, OR that the child is born out of a wedlock does NOT diminish the rights of the child itself to know its father.
2. How do you feel about the woman? Any concerns on your daughter's safety that makes you want to check-in on her?


If you do genuine want to be with your daughter, beef up your case. The Finnish lawyers are not known to be the brightest in the world. The population is very good on focusing on a single detail, they are unable to create the big picture from many dispersed or disparate details.

Look up the law here.

Code: Select all

2 §
Tapaamisoikeus

Tapaamisoikeuden tarkoituksena on turvata lapselle oikeus luoda ja säilyttää myönteinen ja läheinen suhde vanhempaansa, jonka luona lapsi ei asu. Tapaamisoikeuteen kuuluu, että lapsi saa ajoittain olla tämän vanhemman luona tai tavata tätä muualla taikka pitää tähän yhteyttä muulla tavoin.
PS. Merely being a refugee does NOT [in]validate you being a good/ bad parent/ father.
fintel wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 5:59 pm
On the merit of your circumstances, I advised you to find some other country, other than Finland, to start a new life and save some money so you can support your daughter in future and hope to be able to see her outside of Finland. Other advice you got was to apply again on family ties. I think a good humanitarian lawyer can help you in your case. I hope you can see your daughter again.
But yes, the advice is a good one. Forget Finland, it is a lot of hype and honestly, crap. If you can build a life outside of Finland, claim wealth, and then reestablish ties to your daughter, good luck!

Did you already apply your case to the Supreme Administrative Court?
Yep, it is! What's the big deal?

betelgeuse
Posts: 3581
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Family life

Post by betelgeuse » Tue May 12, 2020 10:44 am

suomynona.yllatot wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 10:35 am
Migri is not really the epitome of consistency, nor have any grounds to claim a higher moral ground, or even a judicious understanding. In fact, on a rate of competency as the base definition of the word, Migri probably falls the worst. Look at the number of cases they have lost in court, the number of times they have been criticised. KELA's down there as well.
Your statement is not based in fact.

"Maahanmuuttovirastolle asetettuna yhteiskunnallisena vaikuttavuustavoitteena on, että niiden muutoksenhakutuomioistuinten päätösten, joissa Maahanmuuttoviraston päätös kumotaan sillä perusteella, että virasto on tehnyt laintulkinta- tai menettelyvirheen, on enintään 5 % valitusten kokonaismäärästä. Vuonna 2019 tämä tavoite ylitettiin, edellä mainituilla perusteilla valitus hyväksyttiin 1,1 % tapauksista."

https://migri.fi/documents/5202425/5915 ... s+2019.pdf
suomynona.yllatot wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 10:35 am
Of recent even Business Finland.
Audit of Business Finland found no systematic breaking of the law.

"Koronatukien myöntäminen pääosin onnistunutta"

https://valtioneuvosto.fi/artikkeli/-/a ... astuksesta

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fintel
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:00 pm

Re: Family life

Post by fintel » Tue May 12, 2020 6:25 pm

suomynona.yllatot wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 10:35 am
If you do genuine want to be with your daughter, beef up your case.
There are usually three streams of immigration in countries like Canada, UK (and maybe also Finland).

1) Family based immigration.
2) Refugee based immigration.
3) Independent immigration (work, study, business).

One should pick a stream carefully and stick with it.

A refugee is normally not allowed to change streams. This is one of the problems OP is facing in my opinion.
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