Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

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IssoHappy
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Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:24 am

Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

Post by IssoHappy » Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:34 am

Hello!

My husband, three toddlers and I have decided to begin looking for jobs in Finland! We are moving from the USA (after covid-19/borders open) and are SO excited. Having never been to Finland, where the best cities for little kids Preschool/Kindergarten age. They speak English, are learning Spanish, and I am sure will pick up Finnish (?).

My husband works at a nationally recognized craft brewery and I am finishing my masters in counseling and will be a licensed clinical social worker specializing in mental health and therapy.


Which city should we look at for jobs/schools/houses?

1. Families with kids - do you miss your extended family/siblings/parents? I am worried about being so far from home - does it end up alright? No broken families?
2. How long does the applying for residency usually take once finding a job?
3. Are large dogs welcome? We are hoping to bring our boxer/collie, but are not sure if it'll be too much of a hassle when moving across the world.



Thank you and warm wishes,

We deeply value your advice and input. This decision is so amazingly exciting and terrifying.

The U family



Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

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rinso
Posts: 3909
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:22 pm

Re: Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

Post by rinso » Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:30 am

IssoHappy wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:34 am
Hello!

My husband, three toddlers and I have decided to begin looking for jobs in Finland! We are moving from the USA (after covid-19/borders open) and are SO excited. Having never been to Finland, where the best cities for little kids Preschool/Kindergarten age. They speak English, are learning Spanish, and I am sure will pick up Finnish (?).

My husband works at a nationally recognized craft brewery and I am finishing my masters in counseling and will be a licensed clinical social worker specializing in mental health and therapy.


Which city should we look at for jobs/schools/houses?

1. Families with kids - do you miss your extended family/siblings/parents? I am worried about being so far from home - does it end up alright? No broken families?
2. How long does the applying for residency usually take once finding a job?
3. Are large dogs welcome? We are hoping to bring our boxer/collie, but are not sure if it'll be too much of a hassle when moving across the world.



Thank you and warm wishes,

We deeply value your advice and input. This decision is so amazingly exciting and terrifying.

The U family
You should get your priorities right. First you need a residence permit. For that you need a reason, in your case it will be work. So you need a job offer first before you can apply. With your and your husbands background it will be difficult to find jobs. Restricting your search geographicly is not a wise option.

FinlandGirl
Posts: 480
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

Post by FinlandGirl » Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:16 pm

IssoHappy wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:34 am
My husband, three toddlers and I have decided to begin looking for jobs in Finland! We are moving from the USA (after covid-19/borders open)
You are allowed to stay for 3 months as tourists before becoming illegal aliens.
IssoHappy wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:34 am
Having never been to Finland
Why do you want to move to a country you have never visited?
IssoHappy wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:34 am
My husband works at a nationally recognized craft brewery and I am finishing my masters in counseling and will be a licensed clinical social worker specializing in mental health and therapy.
The procedure for being allowed to work in your profession is described at
https://www.valvira.fi/web/en/social_we ... inland/eea
IssoHappy wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:34 am
Which city should we look at for jobs
Both of you are already fluent in Finnish for working in a Finnish-only environment?
Except for jobs in IT, foreign-language jobs are nearly non-existing in Finland.
IssoHappy wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:34 am
How long does the applying for residency usually take once finding a job?
If you manage to get a job offer and apply for a residence permit based on that, it takes up to 4 months to get a decision.
The decision is negative if the employment office determines there are sufficient unemployed people available in the job market who could do the job instead of you.
You do not have the right to start working before receiving a positive decision.

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agroot
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2018 5:04 pm

Re: Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

Post by agroot » Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:53 pm

IssoHappy wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:34 am
This decision is so amazingly exciting and terrifying.
If you move first and search for job later you'd be seriously screwed on multiple fronts: inability to sign any service contract, temporary rental costs like hotels, daily cost of transport and grocery, etc, not to mention either of you would have to secure a job contract within 3 months (or being sent back) which is impossible because interviews for specialist positions would take longer than that, if you do find a job.
FinlandGirl wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:16 pm
Why do you want to move to a country you have never visited?
It's not such a risky decision considering we're all born into countries which we never visited :D

IssoHappy
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:24 am

Re: Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

Post by IssoHappy » Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:31 pm

We are currently learning Finnish. We also have a plan that will likely take upwards of 2-3 years. I am beginning to plan. Why are we moving to a country that we have never been? Adventure, culture, happiness, life.
Obviously applying for jobs would be the first step. I was simply asking which cities would be recommended to apply to jobs in.
I never intended to imply that we were going to move first.

I have been researching employment in Finland and found that mental health therapists/counselors were in high demand. I assumed it was an option.

FinlandGirl
Posts: 480
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

Post by FinlandGirl » Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:10 pm

IssoHappy wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:31 pm
Obviously applying for jobs would be the first step. I was simply asking which cities would be recommended to apply to jobs in.
The first step would be to figure out why anyone would want to hire you or your husband at all.
Based on what you wrote applying for jobs might be a waste of time since noone would hire you.

You did not mention what your husband does at the brewery, perhaps he has some highly desired skills useful for Finnish breweries?
IssoHappy wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:31 pm
I have been researching employment in Finland and found that mental health therapists/counselors were in high demand. I assumed it was an option.
It is an option, if Valvira approves that you are allowed to work in this field in Finland and if you are able to work in Finnish.
When will you feel comfortable to work with clients who speak only Finnish and no other language?

heretostay
Posts: 440
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:54 pm

Re: Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

Post by heretostay » Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:09 pm

It is difficult to get non-EU qualifications accepted by valvira in reality. I have a co worker that I was surprised to learn is actually a pharmacist with a doctorate from a prestigious US university. They speak fluent Finnish, but can’t get a pharmacist license from valvira. Unfortunately, they are stuck working a low paying job in the hospitality sector.

IssoHappy
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:24 am

Re: Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

Post by IssoHappy » Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:09 pm

This is simply the information and advice I was looking for before. We want good schools for our children and a good, natural life for our family. My husband has been a brewer, but is currently managing a very large American craft brewery's packaging center. He makes good money and has an impressive resume in the US. He aided their implementation of cans, bottles, and kegs. We works with the engineers, safety team, and organizes team leaders. I was not sure how welcoming Finland would be to people from the united states. We have hearts for travel. So if not Finland, somewhere else. I speak English and a good amount of Spanish and Chinese. Learning Finnish has been simpler than Chinese, thank God.

If Finland is not welcoming and we are unable to be approved for work/visa we will look somewhere else.

Thank you all for your advice - kind or otherwise.

betelgeuse
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Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

Post by betelgeuse » Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:47 pm

IssoHappy wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:09 pm
This is simply the information and advice I was looking for before. We want good schools for our children and a good, natural life for our family. My husband has been a brewer, but is currently managing a very large American craft brewery's packaging center. He makes good money and has an impressive resume in the US. He aided their implementation of cans, bottles, and kegs. We works with the engineers, safety team, and organizes team leaders. I was not sure how welcoming Finland would be to people from the united states. We have hearts for travel. So if not Finland, somewhere else. I speak English and a good amount of Spanish and Chinese. Learning Finnish has been simpler than Chinese, thank God.
I would get in touch with the craft brewery scene in Finland. There are breweries run by foreigners (so working language is most likely English). See for example:

https://fi.linkedin.com/in/clebergoncalves

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agroot
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Re: Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

Post by agroot » Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:10 am

Most jobs are in the big cities: Helsinki (probably 90%+), Turku, Tampere and Oulu.

But from my experience/field, it'd make more sense to target the entire Nordic region than a single city or country. I wouldn't recommend investing time on getting to know Finnish or any other countries' here before you secure a job - which is a problem because you wouldn't be able to get Finnish job, but the low chance makes it pointless.

Also since there is freedom of movement within EU and between Nordic countries, you could move to any of the countries first, get a citizenship in a few years and in the mean time prepare to move to Finland or anywhere you like. Besides citizenship, an EU blue card might also help.

FinlandGirl
Posts: 480
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

Post by FinlandGirl » Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:28 am

agroot wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:10 am
Also since there is freedom of movement within EU and between Nordic countries, you could move to any of the countries first, get a citizenship in a few years and in the mean time prepare to move to Finland or anywhere you like.
You do not want to live in some country for many years with your children growing up there, then move 10 years later to the country you actually wanted to move to.

And EU citizenship would not automatically make Valvira approve a non-EU education, or help with Finnish usually being required for finding a job in Finland.

FinlandGirl
Posts: 480
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

Post by FinlandGirl » Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:34 am

IssoHappy wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:09 pm
I was not sure how welcoming Finland would be to people from the united states.
If you expect preferential treatment due to your citizenship you will be disappointed.
For Residence Permit purposes and most employers it won't make a difference whether your citizenship is from Mexico, India or the USA.
You are welcome when you are the best candidate for a job.
IssoHappy wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:09 pm
This is simply the information and advice I was looking for before. We want good schools for our children and a good, natural life for our family.
You are wrong to assume your challenges abroad will be the same as the challenges in your country.
In the US the quality of schools varies a lot, but you could manage to find a job anywhere.
In Finland differences between schools are much smaller, but finding any job will be a huge challenge.
If your husband manages to get a job offer anywhere in Finland that decides where you will move.

IssoHappy
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:24 am

Re: Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

Post by IssoHappy » Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:22 pm

Finlandgirl, you have been negative this entire time. You seem to have a bias against American "foreigners." Why would I expect preferential treatment? Why would you say that? Look into your own heart. Do you hate Americans?

I have an excellent resume as an exercise physiologist and am switching careers into therapy for personal reasons. You do not know me or my family. We are a cultured family who love and help everyone, from every nation. All people. All races. All backgrounds. All religions. All cultures.

I would not assume that all people from Finland are like you, and you must not assume that I am like all Americans.

You can not pretend to know the dreams or intent of my family. Living in multiple countries is a gift and is how life should be lived. The beauty of life is that we do not all have to be the same.

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Oombongo
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Re: Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

Post by Oombongo » Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:37 pm

Your husband may have a chance to score a position in his field at some brewery, but for you, it is going to be extremely difficult if not impossible. Let's say, it is as similar as for me to date Christina Hendricks. And no, you can't master Finnish language within a few years specially for your line of work.

Then comes salary part. Say, If someone coming from US is going to ask 100k for senior position in Finland then he will be laughed at. Have a read here:

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-IT-salari ... in-Finland

This is true for not only IT field. The first response is from 2016, and I'm willing to bet my neighbor's jewels in a table wise grip that situation has gone down the hill since then.

On top of that, high taxes, lack of variety among goods and expensive stuff. Once the infatuation for Finland will wear off, then you'll join the ranks of miserable foreigners and curse at your horoscope.

Check Germany or even Sweden for instance. Language is comparatively easier.

Others have pictured a reality without any sweet talk. Seriously, reality is grim and cruel, and it is exacerbated during covid months.
Image Image

heretostay
Posts: 440
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:54 pm

Re: Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

Post by heretostay » Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:43 pm

Finlandgirl is like that to everyone on here. Don’t take it personally. Americans are plentiful in Finland and very eager to help each other (and other foreigners like me out). I suggest contacting some people from this group or PM me if you want me to put you in touch with someone directly.

https://samsuomi.fi/activities/

Immigration to Finland is difficult for sure but not impossible and it helps to have some friendly guidance along the way.


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