New and Confused

[betelgeuse]

Everyone of course wonders what's wrong with you that you want to move to Finland - is it your childhood dream to live in a country where the winters are so cold that even the ocean freezes?

The ocean freezes because of the low level of salt in it.

First of all I'm a U.S. resident that is intending on moving to Finland on a student visa to obtain a bachelors in International Business, as that's one of the few courses that's offered in english. Not a problem though as the school I'm looking at has told me that a bachelors degree in that plus Finish studies has a very broad range and can open up a ton of jobs after graduation. Does anyone have any thoughts on how true that is?

If you land a job, it's likely to be due to other attributes than the degree that separate you from the masses. Bachelors in International Business is a generic degree in comparison to fields like medicine or architecture which make you immediately employable.

[betelgeuse]

He has that 401K or 501K pension thing with medical insurance covered for his whole family, whereas I am not even sure with this political change, I'd ever get Pension from Finland, specially they keep increasing the eligibility year. Till I get retired the eligibility age for Pension in Finland could be 85 or who knows they pass the law saying No foreigners able to claim Pension.

Discriminating against foreigners in pensions requires constitutional level changes so it's unlikely to happen. Concerns that apply to Finns as well like increasing eligibility are valid.

[AldenG]

People from the US (like myself, BTW OP) just congenitally have difficulty grasping the concept of limited opportunity. We know what the words mean, we just don't get it because at most, we interpret it as what that would mean "back home," which is different by orders of magnitude.

(Similarly, Nordics often have trouble grasping the whole other sense of possibilities in life that middle-class Americans grow up with.)

The idea that many Finns might have only two employers over the course of a career nearly beggars comprehension. The idea of waiting years for a desirable flat to become available tends to be similarly incomprehensible.

Most Finns are underemployed compared to their qualifications. Most foreigners are woefully moreso, even if there have historically been isolated exceptions, particularly in the golden era of tech employment before the collapse of Nokia's business.

Graphic arts have traditionally been an area of national excellence, pride, and identity. At least pre-EU, there was a distinctive Finnish aesthetic. Breaking into the field requires embracing that and demonstrating not just formal qualifications but also the ability to "look Finnish."

[AldenG]

I'm not saying you can't do these things, but at best it will be harder and take longer than you expect and the reality of your success, if you succeed in the plan, will almost surely be less than you anticipate.

Of course it's in your cultural DNA to assume you'll be one of the 5%, or maybe it's 1% or 10%, but that's what the other 95% expected, too. Many are called but few are chosen.

There are other paths with a better likely return on the investment of your youth and your money.

Have you seriously considered Canada?

[rinso]

Most employers will put a CV with no degree straight into the bin.

There is often an internal policy to choose the "best" (= highest degree) person for the job. For governmental institutions it can be mandatory.
An employer must have very very good reasons to pass a degree candidate for a non degree one.

[AldenG]

I can see you're going to do this if the formalities work out. It will be an experience and valuable in that sense. As the road less taken, it will make all the difference in your life, in some ways for worse and in others for better.

Just remember that life is what happens while you're making other plans - so living well means becoming good at embracing the extracurricular and accidental in life, becoming master not of your destiny but of your serendipity. That's the only way you'll come away from this adventure thinking it was anything other than a mistake.

[lpage160]

A lot of posters on here seem to think that I have had easy jobs here in America..... I haven't been employed by anything me other than myself for over 6 years and what's sad is that I have been trying.

I'm going to Finland because there are more opportunities there other than the job thing. However in reference to the job thing I am actually not going there for a year and before that time I am using a language learning program that the U.S. Military uses so upon my arrival in Finland I should at least be on a somewhat conversational level of finish. I also have a sort of language buddy who is from Finland that will be helping me practice. So don't think I'm going over there absolutely blind, that would be silly.

To the person who mentioned Canada....... The reason I'm going to Finland has a lot to do with 1) the fact that I have wanted to for literally years and years so it's been a dream of mine regardless of how many of you think that it's funny, 2) I just got out of a very very emotionally abusive Marriage so it's time that I do what makes me happy. Oddly enough he is from Canada...

I am on here not to be discouraged, and I will not be discouraged, I am on here to gather relevant information in order to spend this year preparing and learning so that when I do get to Finland next year I have my best possible chance.

Also I'm not a "typical American". I do not feel entitled to anything and I do not think my graphic design skills are super amazing but they are skills and a degree non the less. I do not think that if I work hard things will all go right, because I have been working hard for 6 years and nothing has gone right.
I hear what everyone is saying.....getting a job is hard work. It's hard work ANYWHERE and it's going to be especially hard when you're not from there. I am realistic and I know this. It's going to be exponentially harder not speaking the language at all. Which is why I'm taking the steps to spend 5 hours or so a day studying it for a year. That may not make me a fluent speaker by any means, it's a hard language to learn, but it will give me a better shot at finding something than if I didn't speak it at all.
Finding something may be harder than anywhere in the world, however if you remove all of the barriers that are within your power to remove then your chances will improve. Maybe not 100% improve but even a 5% improvement is better than nothing and every little step counts.

Even if I go there, get a degree, and then somehow miraculously manage to land a job at a basic little shop making the bare minimum... That's fine with me.

Some of you seem to think I'm making a ton of money here.... I make literally just enough to pay bills and buy necessities like gas for my car and groceries. So when you say that you don't get paid as much… that's fine... I live incredibly frugally because it's what I have had to do. I'm not used to really having spending money. As long as I can take care of the basics I'm good.

The ones who are trying to discourage me from moving there or laughing at me for wanting to do so… I wouldn't waste your typing… that negativity just doesn't stick to me anymore and has no affect on my opinion or goals. I have a year to prepare and as far as I'm concerned that's better than going over completely unprepared or expecting to learn while I'm there. Even if it's only slightly better, an improvement is an improvement no matter how small. Even 1% better is still better than none.

[Flossy1978]

They're only trying to tell you the truth.

We've heard your story many times. I don't think a single person has come back to the board and told us of their success.

Like quite a few foreigner, you've taken offense.

How can you fall in love with a country you've never been to? You've fallen in love with the idea of a country, which will be very far from the truth once you get here.

Your first worry was about your mobile phone. Seriously??? There are many more, more worrying things than if your phone is going to work.

I wish you luck.

[lpage160]

They're only trying to tell you the truth.

We've heard your story many times. I don't think a single person has come back to the board and told us of their success.

Like quite a few foreigner, you've taken offense.

How can you fall in love with a country you've never been to? You've fallen in love with the idea of a country, which will be very far from the truth once you get here.

Your first worry was about your mobile phone. Seriously??? There are many more, more worrying things than if your phone is going to work.

I wish you luck.

Actually that was not my first worry, it wasn't even the second thing I asked. Did you even read the original post?
Also I don't ask everything on here. Most non judgmental people here are very friendly but I prefer to get information from the source when I can so all of my original concerns I called and asked the Embassy, a few Universities, and other legitimate sources. I only come here to get general information and opinions on things.

Just because I don't ask it on here does not mean it wasn't worried about. This forum is not the end all be all and your opinion of how well I will do over there is just that... an opinion... and one that does not matter to me. I'm going over there regardless of what anyone on a forum thinks.

And I can fall in love with it because my heritage is there. Yes I may be in love with the idea but how am I supposed to have a chance to fall in love with it if I don't go there and experience it for myself? I may love it I may dislike it... who knows... but that's what living a good life is all about... having your own experiences.

You are being very judgmental when all I did was ask a few simple to answer questions. Do you not have anything else better to do with your time?

[007]

People from the US (like myself, BTW OP) just congenitally have difficulty grasping the concept of limited opportunity.

seems like in my home country, I watched/read a lot of US stuffs that now in Finland I find myself having difficulty to grasp the concept of limited opportunity.... 8-4, permanent job is the mantra here... and for foreigners, even that's elusive.

[lpage160]

People from the US (like myself, BTW OP) just congenitally have difficulty grasping the concept of limited opportunity.

seems like in my home country, I watched/read a lot of US stuffs that now in Finland I find myself having difficulty to grasp the concept of limited opportunity.... 8-4, permanent job is the mantra here... and for foreigners, even that's elusive.

Elusive but not impossible. Yay Optimism!

I really do realise how hard it will be there. If you haven't found a job yet I wish you the best! Let me know how the search goes.

Earlier I mentioned that I realize that it's not going to be easy and I'm actually saving the money and have an income from a family member so I won't have to work during school unless I want extra spending money. So in that case I guess I sort of got lucky. However even as a foreigner there are things we can do to make it a little easier.. even if it's just by a smidgen. Having even a 1% increase in your chances can be a big thing sometimes.

For Example:

• I'm taking a year to prepare before my move.
• During that year I am studying Finnish like it's my job.
• I'm perfecting my portfolio and adding more to it in order to best show my range of skills (I'm a photographer and graphic designer).
• I'm studying the design trends in Finland.
• Updating my CV constantly to be more appropriate.
• I'm also financially preparing so that if I don't get a job during University then it won't affect the necessities.

Just know that even a little step is a step and regardless of what some might say, nothing is impossible..... except natural x-ray vision... unless you're an x-man

[007]

People from the US (like myself, BTW OP) just congenitally have difficulty grasping the concept of limited opportunity.

seems like in my home country, I watched/read a lot of US stuffs that now in Finland I find myself having difficulty to grasp the concept of limited opportunity.... 8-4, permanent job is the mantra here... and for foreigners, even that's elusive.

Elusive but not impossible. Yay Optimism!

I must have mentioned Finns too, not just foreigners when it comes to permanent job. my bad. but yes... if you are optimistic, work hard, and stay positive, sky is the only limit. ah.. sounding like 'merican

[Flossy1978]

You wrote you fell in love with Finland. Which means you are already in love with it.

Optimism is a good thing to have, but it's not reality.

The people giving you their opinions are people who live or have lived a long time in Finland. Sure, the embassy and universities can give you "facts", but they can't give you the reality of the situation. Only experienced people can. And those people are telling you what it's like, be it positive or negative.

The economy is terrible and only getting worse in Finland right now. It's not going to be better when you get there. You don't want to hear it, like a lot of other foreigners. You also want to study in a small town, where undoubtedly there is a very high unemployment rate amongst the natives. Do you honestly think there is really even a 1% chance of you getting a job??? You'd be better off doing freelance work with the stuff you can already do. You might have more of a chance for work that way. But you'd need fluent Finnish skills to be able to discuss what the client wants. That will take years, if you succeed at all.

There are people here in this forum who have studied nursing and that's in high demand in Finland and they still don't get employed.

As this is a public forum, I'm entitled to give you an opinion. Just as you are entitled to either listen to it or not. But your story and your responses are exactly like so many others.

It's good you are planning.

[lpage160]

I must have mentioned Finns too, not just foreigners when it comes to permanent job. my bad. but yes... if you are optimistic, work hard, and stay positive, sky is the only limit. ah.. sounding like 'merican

Everyone keeps saying that my optimism is so "American"... however it's my Finnish friend who has been the one telling me this stuff.... so I guess optimism is a Finnish thing too.
Also just so people are aware.... americans are literally the least positive and some of the most depressing people I know. lol. I don't know where people think we are all sunny and "work hard yay!" ... no no... Americans are entitled jerks who think that everything should be handed to them... I know, I am one... but fortunately I was raised differently and America's "entitlement" issue gets under my skin

[lpage160]

You wrote you fell in love with Finland. Which means you are already in love with it.

Optimism is a good thing to have, but it's not reality.

The people giving you their opinions are people who live or have lived a long time in Finland. Sure, the embassy and universities can give you "facts", but they can't give you the reality of the situation. Only experienced people can. And those people are telling you what it's like, be it positive or negative.

The economy is terrible and only getting worse in Finland right now. It's not going to be better when you get there. You don't want to hear it, like a lot of other foreigners. You also want to study in a small town, where undoubtedly there is a very high unemployment rate amongst the natives. Do you honestly think there is really even a 1% chance of you getting a job??? You'd be better off doing freelance work with the stuff you can already do. You might have more of a chance for work that way. But you'd need fluent Finnish skills to be able to discuss what the client wants. That will take years, if you succeed at all.

There are people here in this forum who have studied nursing and that's in high demand in Finland and they still don't get employed.

As this is a public forum, I'm entitled to give you an opinion. Just as you are entitled to either listen to it or not. But your story and your responses are exactly like so many others.

It's good you are planning.

I know what I wrote.. and from what I know of Finland I am in love with it... a country can have a crappy economy and still be beautiful and have wonderful people living in it. No country is perfect.

And you clearly never read the original post because I will be a student... probably in Tampere. Though I did inquire about if anyone knew anything about HAMK because it was a possibility, I have not enrolled in anything as of yet... Also I won't have a job for... oh another 4 years. I'm not looking for a job. Also who knows how the economy will be in 4 years unless you are a fortune teller or Time Lord and know these things.

I inquired about the possibility of a part time job.. that was all. You're right though, I'll just do some freelance work online which I already do. It's just for spending money anyways.

And yes, I do think that I will have well over a 1% chance of finding a job.... in 4 years... when I'm out of university and looking for one and know Finnish.