Citizenship Application 2019

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Medborgarer
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:36 pm

Re: Citizenship Application 2019

Post by Medborgarer » Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:54 pm

Any idea why Migri need the original passport for :shock: ? and how much time it usually takes while they are verifying the identity?
I have asked to provide my original passport to Migir. Additionally, they also asked some supplementary info e.g., livelihood and travel history which I provided on very next day. My case moved to stage II after 3 months.



Re: Citizenship Application 2019

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cameron
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:54 pm

Re: Citizenship Application 2019

Post by cameron » Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:04 pm

Medborgarer wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:54 pm
Any idea why Migri need the original passport for :shock: ? and how much time it usually takes while they are verifying the identity?
I have asked to provide my original passport to Migir. Additionally, they also asked some supplementary info e.g., livelihood and travel history which I provided on very next day. My case moved to stage II after 3 months.
Hi when did you applied and where? and after how many month it moved to stage 2?

italosuomalainen
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:23 pm

Re: Citizenship Application 2019

Post by italosuomalainen » Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:50 pm

Hi all,

For those who are on this thread regularly: you may recall that mine has been the application that's been an ongoing saga for over a year, my having started the process last year August 16, 2018. At that point, I had lived in Finland for four years, and was hoping to get a decision based on language ability (I passed the ylin taso kielikoe at the C1 level) and on the "kiinteät siteet" criterion (I'd been gainfully employed the entire four years, and still am).

Maahanmuuttovirasto (MMV) had asked me to send in my passport April 3, 2019, ostensibly to do an authenticity check. And then they proceeded to sit on it for four months, until I told them to return it - I needed it for travel outside of the Schengen area. MMV did indeed return it to me - but with the caveat that they would likely ask me to return it to them upon my return to Finland.

Not knowing whether MMV would indeed return my passport to me in time enough for me to travel, I had applied for a new passport from my embassy. (It turns out I received my passport back from MMV the day before my scheduled visit to my embassy.) The new passport I got in less than two weeks. The embassy returned my old one to me invalidated, along with the new one, and I went on my trip.

Sure enough, upon my return to Finland, I was asked to return my passport to MMV, again for the ostensible authenticity check. This time, I was forewarned that the authenticity check could take several months.

So I did send in my passport agan, this past Monday, Sep 30 - albeit the passport that had been invalidated. (This is the one they asked for by passport number, after all. Cheeky on my part, I know.)

In addition to returning that now invalidated passport to them, however, I also sent a letter (registered mail) to the director of Citizenship Affairs at MMV. I summarized the sequence of events of my application, and told him that

1) In the time my application had been under review, I'd passed the five-year asumisaika mark, and could now qualify based on that.
2) The fact that I obtained a new passport (for which I enclosed a photocopy) in less than two weeks from my embassy should be a pretty strong indicator that my old passport is indeed authentic (albeit no longer valid).
3) I also intimated to him that the MMV is not the competent authority for determining the authenticity of passports that Finland didn't issue, and if the authenticity of mine was in doubt, to please contact my embassy, which represents the competent authority for issuing and authenticating passports of my home country.

I even went so far as to state that this prolonged authenticity check smacked of the MMV exercising arbitrary authority.

I guess my gamble paid off/my letter to the head of Citizenship Affairs must have worked, since as of 9:20 this morning, I am a Finnish citizen. 8)

In other words: I was likely correct in my assumption that, for my application, I drew a particularly persnickety processing officer, who indeed may very well have been exercising arbitrary authority.

I'll admit that when I received the alert this morning that a decision had been made on my application, I was very nervous. I had no way of knowing whether MMV would take my reasoning to heart and act in my favor, or tell me to go screw myself. Consider that the decision to accept or reject an application is entirely at the discretion of the respective processing officer. Therefore, I suppose those officers can reject applications if the applicant farts in the wrong key, even if they fulfill the prerequisites for Finnish citizenship. So I don't know whether I would universally recommend my approach of taking one's case to the head of Citizenship Affairs.

On the other hand, I think I am pretty good at spotting arbitrarily wielded authority when I encounter it - and I'm told it's not uncommon in Nordic countries to take one's complaints to the top of a given organization. Which in my case, appears to have worked. Note that my application did fulfill every last prerequisite per the letter of kansalaisuuslaki, so I did have that in my favor.

Anyhow, here I am, a newly minted Finnish citizen. To those who are still waiting for a decision, I wish you the best of luck!

(Aside - I wonder whether MMV will return my invalidated passport to me. Not that I'm all that fussed about it...)

Medborgarer
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:36 pm

Re: Citizenship Application 2019

Post by Medborgarer » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:38 pm

italosuomalainen wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:50 pm
Hi all,

For those who are on this thread regularly: you may recall that mine has been the application that's been an ongoing saga for over a year, my having started the process last year August 16, 2018. At that point, I had lived in Finland for four years, and was hoping to get a decision based on language ability (I passed the ylin taso kielikoe at the C1 level) and on the "kiinteät siteet" criterion (I'd been gainfully employed the entire four years, and still am).

Maahanmuuttovirasto (MMV) had asked me to send in my passport April 3, 2019, ostensibly to do an authenticity check. And then they proceeded to sit on it for four months, until I told them to return it - I needed it for travel outside of the Schengen area. MMV did indeed return it to me - but with the caveat that they would likely ask me to return it to them upon my return to Finland.

Not knowing whether MMV would indeed return my passport to me in time enough for me to travel, I had applied for a new passport from my embassy. (It turns out I received my passport back from MMV the day before my scheduled visit to my embassy.) The new passport I got in less than two weeks. The embassy returned my old one to me invalidated, along with the new one, and I went on my trip.

Sure enough, upon my return to Finland, I was asked to return my passport to MMV, again for the ostensible authenticity check. This time, I was forewarned that the authenticity check could take several months.

So I did send in my passport agan, this past Monday, Sep 30 - albeit the passport that had been invalidated. (This is the one they asked for by passport number, after all. Cheeky on my part, I know.)

In addition to returning that now invalidated passport to them, however, I also sent a letter (registered mail) to the director of Citizenship Affairs at MMV. I summarized the sequence of events of my application, and told him that

1) In the time my application had been under review, I'd passed the five-year asumisaika mark, and could now qualify based on that.
2) The fact that I obtained a new passport (for which I enclosed a photocopy) in less than two weeks from my embassy should be a pretty strong indicator that my old passport is indeed authentic (albeit no longer valid).
3) I also intimated to him that the MMV is not the competent authority for determining the authenticity of passports that Finland didn't issue, and if the authenticity of mine was in doubt, to please contact my embassy, which represents the competent authority for issuing and authenticating passports of my home country.

I even went so far as to state that this prolonged authenticity check smacked of the MMV exercising arbitrary authority.

I guess my gamble paid off/my letter to the head of Citizenship Affairs must have worked, since as of 9:20 this morning, I am a Finnish citizen. 8)

In other words: I was likely correct in my assumption that, for my application, I drew a particularly persnickety processing officer, who indeed may very well have been exercising arbitrary authority.

I'll admit that when I received the alert this morning that a decision had been made on my application, I was very nervous. I had no way of knowing whether MMV would take my reasoning to heart and act in my favor, or tell me to go screw myself. Consider that the decision to accept or reject an application is entirely at the discretion of the respective processing officer. Therefore, I suppose those officers can reject applications if the applicant farts in the wrong key, even if they fulfill the prerequisites for Finnish citizenship. So I don't know whether I would universally recommend my approach of taking one's case to the head of Citizenship Affairs.

On the other hand, I think I am pretty good at spotting arbitrarily wielded authority when I encounter it - and I'm told it's not uncommon in Nordic countries to take one's complaints to the top of a given organization. Which in my case, appears to have worked. Note that my application did fulfill every last prerequisite per the letter of kansalaisuuslaki, so I did have that in my favor.

Anyhow, here I am, a newly minted Finnish citizen. To those who are still waiting for a decision, I wish you the best of luck!

(Aside - I wonder whether MMV will return my invalidated passport to me. Not that I'm all that fussed about it...)
May congratulations! You long-standing patience and effort finally paid off in a happy ending. I believe that MMV at least outline the procedure after the new amendments to Alien Act in 2019 came into force to avoid unnecessary confusion among the prospective citizens.

Medborgarer
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:36 pm

Re: Citizenship Application 2019

Post by Medborgarer » Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:30 pm

cameron wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:04 pm
Medborgarer wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:54 pm
Any idea why Migri need the original passport for :shock: ? and how much time it usually takes while they are verifying the identity?
I have asked to provide my original passport to Migir. Additionally, they also asked some supplementary info e.g., livelihood and travel history which I provided on very next day. My case moved to stage II after 3 months.
Hi when did you applied and where? and after how many month it moved to stage 2?
I applied in mid June 2k19. It moved to stage 2 in mid September.

Alexx1111
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:29 pm

Re: Citizenship Application 2019

Post by Alexx1111 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:18 pm

I don't understand the logic here... I applied in the end of April and still stage one, what's the basis for this?

Supermies
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:29 pm

Re: Citizenship Application 2019

Post by Supermies » Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:20 pm

Emailed Migri again and again, and finally they replied that since they are doing automation, therefore "some applications were selected" to test the process that is why those who applied later e.g in September got the decisions earlier. Well I would say the were the lucky ones :)

However they replied that we can expect the decisions in 2 - 4 MONTHS...!

So keep waiting everybody.

Migir *****...!

rucindrea
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 5:11 pm

Re: Citizenship Application 2019

Post by rucindrea » Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:22 pm

Supermies wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:20 pm
Emailed Migri again and again, and finally they replied that since they are doing automation, therefore "some applications were selected" to test the process that is why those who applied later e.g in September got the decisions earlier. Well I would say the were the lucky ones :)

However they replied that we can expect the decisions in 2 - 4 MONTHS...!

So keep waiting everybody.

Migir *****...!
Thanks for posting this! I'm clearly in the same pile as you, waiting since February... :D

Medborgarer
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:36 pm

Re: Citizenship Application 2019

Post by Medborgarer » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:56 am

Supermies wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:20 pm
Emailed Migri again and again, and finally they replied that since they are doing automation, therefore "some applications were selected" to test the process that is why those who applied later e.g in September got the decisions earlier. Well I would say the were the lucky ones :)

However they replied that we can expect the decisions in 2 - 4 MONTHS...!

So keep waiting everybody.

Migir *****...!
I believe the situation is the same as Supermies got in the reply email. I got my decision yesterday, exactly after 3 months and 20 days. Hope the automation will reduce the suffering from the rest of the applicants.

Hoping all the best for waiting applicants. Keep it up :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

agergis
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:10 pm

Re: Citizenship Application 2019

Post by agergis » Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:51 pm

Hello guys,

An update about my wife application.
She applied for citizenship on 15.8.2019 and proved identity on 16.8.2019 in Vaasa (next day).
Today, she got a positive decision about her application. That was super fast I guess. it was less than two months. One reason could be because I am a Finn.
Hope this helps and wish you all best of luck.

rio
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:28 pm

Re: Citizenship Application 2019

Post by rio » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:14 am

agergis wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:51 pm
Hello guys,

An update about my wife application.
She applied for citizenship on 15.8.2019 and proved identity on 16.8.2019 in Vaasa (next day).
Today, she got a positive decision about her application. That was super fast I guess. it was less than two months. One reason could be because I am a Finn.
Hope this helps and wish you all best of luck.
Superfast indeed, congrats.
I think it has less to do with your citizenship, and more about her. Is she EU/US/AUS citizen?

rucindrea
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 5:11 pm

Re: Citizenship Application 2019

Post by rucindrea » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:29 am

I am beginning to think this is really more based on your application being picked up for processing rather than based on things like your spouse, origin, etc.

I am an EU citizen with a Finnish partner, I have been living here for almost 10 years continuously, I have had permanent employment the whole time with a decent salary (I work in IT), and I speak the language. I don't think there's any reason for my application to be delayed or take longer than others, but it hasn't even been picked up by someone for processing...

Like supermies was told by Migri, the new automated process picked some applications randomly and processed them faster. That would explain the latest posts with very short waiting times.

Hopefully we'll all get picked up by the new process soon!

rio
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:28 pm

Re: Citizenship Application 2019

Post by rio » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:36 am

rucindrea wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:29 am
I am beginning to think this is really more based on your application being picked up for processing rather than based on things like your spouse, origin, etc.

I am an EU citizen with a Finnish partner, I have been living here for almost 10 years continuously, I have had permanent employment the whole time with a decent salary (I work in IT), and I speak the language. I don't think there's any reason for my application to be delayed or take longer than others, but it hasn't even been picked up by someone for processing...

Like supermies was told by Migri, the new automated process picked some applications randomly and processed them faster. That would explain the latest posts with very short waiting times.

Hopefully we'll all get picked up by the new process soon!
I think as part of the process they do background check on the applicant by contacting their home country, some countries that have more efficient system respond faster than the other countries, so that could cause the delay. This is just my guess, I'm not sure if such thing happens at all.

Casual_Commuter
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:51 am

Re: Citizenship Application 2019

Post by Casual_Commuter » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:11 pm

rio wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:36 am
rucindrea wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:29 am
I am beginning to think this is really more based on your application being picked up for processing rather than based on things like your spouse, origin, etc.

I am an EU citizen with a Finnish partner, I have been living here for almost 10 years continuously, I have had permanent employment the whole time with a decent salary (I work in IT), and I speak the language. I don't think there's any reason for my application to be delayed or take longer than others, but it hasn't even been picked up by someone for processing...

Like supermies was told by Migri, the new automated process picked some applications randomly and processed them faster. That would explain the latest posts with very short waiting times.

Hopefully we'll all get picked up by the new process soon!
I think as part of the process they do background check on the applicant by contacting their home country, some countries that have more efficient system respond faster than the other countries, so that could cause the delay. This is just my guess, I'm not sure if such thing happens at all.
No, the applicant’s country of origin also is not relevant concerning the processing times. I have read this topic through as well as 2018 and 2017. There were several different people from the same country but their applications were processed from 2 months to 1,5 years.
The only reliable and relevant explanation so far is given by Supermies which is that few applications were picked up to be processed in the frames of the new automation system. So in a nutshell it’s just a matter of luck at the most.

arsenal
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:25 am

Re: Citizenship Application 2019

Post by arsenal » Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:37 am

I received an automatic email asking for updates on traveling, income etc. I had to travel back home for personal reasons for 2.5 months, I am wondering now if this will affect my application. I have been living here for 8 years so...


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