Citizenship Application 2021

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parrraxitamoan
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:10 pm

Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by parrraxitamoan » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:35 am

petbek-125 wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:16 am
parrraxitamoan wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:40 am
yrtti wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:15 am
I'm also interested in hearing from other people who got citizenship at or around the age of 30. I'm sure there's some of those people in the forums here.

In another thread (which I cannot find now on mobile) called (Max age for conscription), there was a very long discussion on the rules for drafting. A native ultimately translated the law and it said "The age for mandatory military service ends the year that the citizen turns 31". Meaning that getting citizenship any time before that year means you have to go. For example, if you turned 30 on July 20th 2021 and got citizenship in November 20th 2021, you still have to go. Though whether or not they'd grab you immediately before the end of the year and draft you is very unlikely and another case.

There was then even another clause which was that you had to first be put into the draft and for this the mandatory responsibility ended at age 30. You had to have been drafted to serve, which technically means it's not possible to serve after age 30. Making the former paragraph whereby duty to serve ends in the year in which you turn 31, being a moot point.

BUT someone mentioned in the other thread that doesn't apply to naturalised citizens (all of us).

At this point I think one of us should talk to a lawyer... I used to have free legal aid but I don't any more...

The only case I've heard of someone going at age 30 was a person who got citizenship granted in September at age 29 and turned 30 in December and was called for draft starting January of next year regardless. I don't know if that counts for those of us who will get citizenship after age 30.
If serving the military is so much of a burden to you, when registering as a new citizen, you can choose your gender as a female and then after 30 you can change it back to male :lol: how come people who aren't born Finnish want to be part of the society and enjoy all benefits but can't bare the cost? even if that is the case, just wait for a couple of months/years later then, it is still a privilege because Finnish born don't have that choice.
Here we go again another "big man" who is so proud of his masculinity and telling everyone to go to the army. Look if you are naive enough to think there is honor in dying for a piece of cloth called flag and some ridiculous words called anthem, thats your thing, but some of us are just too smart to buy that horsesh¤%t. Pulling triggers is easy, but i would rather be the one sending naive soldiers to die than to be the one dying for some weapon industries and rich decision makers while they drink their champagne. If the "dignity, honor, bravery"- package is a source of self-value and self-respect to you, good for you. As a pragmatic person i know we r just punch of animals born on this planet, every childish group calling themselves by some nationality and drawing ridiculous symbols on some cloth material. I wouldnt die for any country neither Finland nor the one in which i was born. You probably thinking why dont they man up, but we r thinking why dont you smart up .
I agree with a lot of what you said but I dont think my comment specifically implied that you should serve the military. What is your reason for not being able to do a civil service then? The Finnish society highly value fairness, so it sounded ridiculous when someone brought up a public discussion about getting a lawyer involved in order to dodge his duty because he is in a rush to get the citizenship and cannot wait for a couple of months longer. I also need to clarify that my suggestion to register a new gender as female was a pure naive suggestion of idea and did not mean to offend anyone masculinity or smartness, so maybe put your sensitiveness on a leash next time

I am very qualified to say what I said and willing to stand by my words but do you really think you are that qualified for your lousy claims yrtti - off topic chatty guy? Are you sure I am the egoist one here? I never understand people who think they have done so much for Finland after having paid taxes for some years and don’t see that ‘regular’ Finns have been paying taxes for generations but arent interested in making such claim. So maybe enlighten me on this if you would?



Re: Citizenship Application 2021

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yrtti
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:32 pm

Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by yrtti » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:06 pm

Let me make something very clear to you Mr. Vietnamese guy before I drop the topic altogether.

No one is comparing paying tax over 12 years, vs paying tax an entire generation as a native Finn, because that is irrelevant. I'm comparing you and I, and highlighting that you have no moral right to question whether or not I or anyone else should feel guilty or should have our character criticized for not wanting to do the service.

Going by your LinkedIn, this position you have now, is the first position in almost 10 years that you have been able to keep for even just 1 year. Every other position you've had has been for an average of 3-6 months, totaling about ~3 total. Furthermore, you studied 2 master's degrees here, which I think anyone can fairly presume you got paid by the govt. for both those. Especially considering how the dates that you studied mostly coincide with you having not worked at that time. In short, you've done 2 master's and you have barely been able to hold a stable job in a decade. I know 19 year old Vietnamese students who've had an easier time finding work and keeping it in HKI.

Now let's compare to me.

I came here almost 12 years ago for work. I have worked 10 straight years here across 3 jobs and 5 positions with only 2 minor breaks. I have paid in this period of time, anywhere between 120000€ - 140000€ in taxes. I've also saved my current company more than 4 million euros in digital licensing. We're talking about contributing here, and nothing is perhaps more evident of a person's contribution than their capital gain, tax paid and the amount they put back into the economy when you live in a democracy. I invite you to argue that as best as you can.
The Finnish society highly value fairness, so it sounded ridiculous when someone brought up a public discussion about getting a lawyer involved in order to dodge his duty because he is in a rush to get the citizenship and cannot wait for a couple of months longer.
How can you say that one is in such a rush to get citizenship when one has to wait until they are literally almost 31 years of age to get it? Having waited literally then almost 13 years since becoming an adult. Hmm? Do you need help with the math, but didn't you study Big Data after all?
but do you really think you are that qualified for your lousy claims yrtti - off topic chatty guy?
How is it off-topic to discuss the mandatory need to do conscription as part of the citizenship process? Also, you got your citizenship, why are you even here, in this thread? Is perhaps the reason you find it so hard to hold a job, because you waste your time procrastinating, being prejudicial and arguing on a forum in topics that are no longer even relevant to you? Would you like me to suggest some other hobbies for you?
The Finnish society highly value fairness
Yes and isn't part of fairness giving people the choice to decide whether or not they want to do service and not hold it against them for having an opinion that does not match your own? Is it really fair to just force everyone to do conscription? Your idea of fair and my idea of fair are certainly not one and the same, clearly. Fair would be giving people the choice to do it, like they give women the choice. Forcing all men however? That's not fair in my eyes and I think you'd find I am also not the only one who thinks that.

Furthermore, don't you have a duty and moral obligation as a naturalized citizen, aka someone who was accepted into Finnish nationality to also accept that other people from many walks of life and many beliefs, who don't necessarily agree with you - are entitled to have their own opinions under a democracy? I certainly as a future citizen will not be judging anyone who wants to serve, or doesn't want to serve. I don't place a need or interest or even any importance, on such topics. They're totally personal. Many people have their own personal reasons for not serving. Would you expect someone to serve if they were absolutely horrified by the sight of blood? What about those too anxious to hold a gun? Your motion is instead to demand that of others only because a consensus decided that it was mandatory and because if you've done it, everyone else should. Maybe YOU should have been the one who waited. If anything I can tell from your LinkedIn that YOU were the one who rushed to get citizenship AS SOON as you were able to. I on the other hand, I've waited SEVEN extra years so far. You want to accuse me of rushing though? Which of us shows then the real "sisu"? My almost 8 years of patience, or you who applied as soon as you were able to? Please do argue how getting barked at and marching through the forest for 6 months is more work than keeping your head down for almost 8 years and holding a stable job so you aren't a financial burden on others. I'd also be interested in you arguing how important it is really in the greater scheme of things. Certainly I've been able to accomplish a whole LOT more than you without having done my service here! Clearly perhaps it's not as important as you think it is!

If you're feeling uncomfortable having this discussion, then I invite you to pick your battles more wisely in the future. :lol:
What is your reason for not being able to do a civil service then?
None of your business. I don't have an obligation to answer you and in a democracy the only fact that matters is that I am allowed to decline. If there is a law that exempts me from service and I qualify for that exemption then that is all that matters. Besides, you ignored literally all of the other points that I made about me having already served in my own country and all of the other facts that I have mentioned in favor of calling my opinion "lousy" when yours is the one full of prejudice. So instead of recycling the topic this time I can kindly tell you to lähe vetää.

Let me offer you a little tip, seeing as you somehow haven't yet been made aware of this yourself. The context of what makes someone "Finnish" is perhaps a lot more broad than you are willing to accept. Insofar as that there are many people who are Finnish and do not want to and have not, done their military service just for starters. Normally I would charge 200€ for this reality check but you can have it for free.

SCHOOLDROPOUT
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:37 pm

Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by SCHOOLDROPOUT » Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:12 pm

@yrtti,

Not sure about this but I think you may be eligible for an exemption if you already served in your home country

heretostay
Posts: 458
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:54 pm

Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by heretostay » Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:13 pm

yrtti wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:06 pm
Let me make something very clear to you Mr. Vietnamese guy before I drop the topic altogether.

No one is comparing paying tax over 12 years, vs paying tax an entire generation as a native Finn, because that is irrelevant. I'm comparing you and I, and highlighting that you have no moral right to question whether or not I or anyone else should feel guilty or should have our character criticized for not wanting to do the service.

Going by your LinkedIn, this position you have now, is the first position in almost 10 years that you have been able to keep for even just 1 year. Every other position you've had has been for an average of 3-6 months, totaling about ~3 total. Furthermore, you studied 2 master's degrees here, which I think anyone can fairly presume you got paid by the govt. for both those. Especially considering how the dates that you studied mostly coincide with you having not worked at that time. In short, you've done 2 master's and you have barely been able to hold a stable job in a decade. I know 19 year old Vietnamese students who've had an easier time finding work and keeping it in HKI.

Now let's compare to me.

I came here almost 12 years ago for work. I have worked 10 straight years here across 3 jobs and 5 positions with only 2 minor breaks. I have paid in this period of time, anywhere between 120000€ - 140000€ in taxes. I've also saved my current company more than 4 million euros in digital licensing. We're talking about contributing here, and nothing is perhaps more evident of a person's contribution than their capital gain, tax paid and the amount they put back into the economy when you live in a democracy. I invite you to argue that as best as you can.
The Finnish society highly value fairness, so it sounded ridiculous when someone brought up a public discussion about getting a lawyer involved in order to dodge his duty because he is in a rush to get the citizenship and cannot wait for a couple of months longer.
How can you say that one is in such a rush to get citizenship when one has to wait until they are literally almost 31 years of age to get it? Having waited literally then almost 13 years since becoming an adult. Hmm? Do you need help with the math, but didn't you study Big Data after all?
but do you really think you are that qualified for your lousy claims yrtti - off topic chatty guy?
How is it off-topic to discuss the mandatory need to do conscription as part of the citizenship process? Also, you got your citizenship, why are you even here, in this thread? Is perhaps the reason you find it so hard to hold a job, because you waste your time procrastinating, being prejudicial and arguing on a forum in topics that are no longer even relevant to you? Would you like me to suggest some other hobbies for you?
The Finnish society highly value fairness
Yes and isn't part of fairness giving people the choice to decide whether or not they want to do service and not hold it against them for having an opinion that does not match your own? Is it really fair to just force everyone to do conscription? Your idea of fair and my idea of fair are certainly not one and the same, clearly. Fair would be giving people the choice to do it, like they give women the choice. Forcing all men however? That's not fair in my eyes and I think you'd find I am also not the only one who thinks that.

Furthermore, don't you have a duty and moral obligation as a naturalized citizen, aka someone who was accepted into Finnish nationality to also accept that other people from many walks of life and many beliefs, who don't necessarily agree with you - are entitled to have their own opinions under a democracy? I certainly as a future citizen will not be judging anyone who wants to serve, or doesn't want to serve. I don't place a need or interest or even any importance, on such topics. They're totally personal. Many people have their own personal reasons for not serving. Would you expect someone to serve if they were absolutely horrified by the sight of blood? What about those too anxious to hold a gun? Your motion is instead to demand that of others only because a consensus decided that it was mandatory and because if you've done it, everyone else should. Maybe YOU should have been the one who waited. If anything I can tell from your LinkedIn that YOU were the one who rushed to get citizenship AS SOON as you were able to. I on the other hand, I've waited SEVEN extra years so far. You want to accuse me of rushing though? Which of us shows then the real "sisu"? My almost 8 years of patience, or you who applied as soon as you were able to? Please do argue how getting barked at and marching through the forest for 6 months is more work than keeping your head down for almost 8 years and holding a stable job so you aren't a financial burden on others. I'd also be interested in you arguing how important it is really in the greater scheme of things. Certainly I've been able to accomplish a whole LOT more than you without having done my service here! Clearly perhaps it's not as important as you think it is!

If you're feeling uncomfortable having this discussion, then I invite you to pick your battles more wisely in the future. :lol:
What is your reason for not being able to do a civil service then?
None of your business. I don't have an obligation to answer you and in a democracy the only fact that matters is that I am allowed to decline. If there is a law that exempts me from service and I qualify for that exemption then that is all that matters. Besides, you ignored literally all of the other points that I made about me having already served in my own country and all of the other facts that I have mentioned in favor of calling my opinion "lousy" when yours is the one full of prejudice. So instead of recycling the topic this time I can kindly tell you to lähe vetää.

Let me offer you a little tip, seeing as you somehow haven't yet been made aware of this yourself. The context of what makes someone "Finnish" is perhaps a lot more broad than you are willing to accept. Insofar as that there are many people who are Finnish and do not want to and have not, done their military service just for starters. Normally I would charge 200€ for this reality check but you can have it for free.
This forum is supposed to be a place of support and personal attacks are not appropriate here or anywhere else for that matter. Is there a moderator here?

parrraxitamoan
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:10 pm

Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by parrraxitamoan » Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:35 pm

well I'll skip the part that you are digging my profile out in public and only stick to what are relevant (like you were supposed to do). I didn't care to correct you previously but now it seems like it is necessary to stop your fabrication. I have been working for the last 7 years under full-time employments without interruption and constantly earn at least 50k annually gross, my job switches were always personal choices, and I never struggle to secure a job like your strong assumption :lol: I wonder where that comes from if not from your personal experience. By the way I also happen to own a profitable business which means I also provide jobs but I don't have to put all my things to Linkedin. I don't think it is very wise of you to believe in everything on the internet by stalking people self generated profiles :lol: With all that being said, this isn't a competition between me and you but I fail to see how someone who does not have enough courage to switch jobs when needed and is currently unemployed can question my competence. Honestly I think you have made a fool of yourself here and also made it easy for me to humiliate you on your life story but I am too humble for that :? Lastly, I am here simply for my partner's application.

Thank you for having taken your time to write that essay but I didn't read it whole because neither did your logic impress me nor do I think it will worth my time. If you wish to continue this unintelligent conversation, write me privately because I don't like diluting this thread with personal conflicts.
Last edited by parrraxitamoan on Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:36 pm, edited 10 times in total.

Upphew
Posts: 10657
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:55 pm
Location: Lappeenranta

Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by Upphew » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:14 pm

yrtti wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:06 pm
having already served in my own country
https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/ ... 1438#L7P74
Done. You are exempt from military service.
http://google.com http://translate.google.com http://urbandictionary.com
Visa is for visiting, Residence Permit for residing.

annie333
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:56 pm

Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by annie333 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:57 pm

heretostay wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:13 pm
yrtti wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:06 pm
This forum is supposed to be a place of support and personal attacks are not appropriate here or anywhere else for that matter. Is there a moderator here?
I completely agree. It's pretty creepy and inappropriate to be stalking the forum members. If you disagree with someone's opinion that's fine, that kind of [threatening] behavior is not.


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