Frustration with the process.

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absolutelynot
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:50 am

Frustration with the process.

Post by absolutelynot » Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:18 am

Hi guys,

I'm in a bit of tight situation. I came to Finland two years ago with my family as asylum seekers. We had our process go by fairly quick, but unfortunately even though my family got their permits admitted I was refused and had to deal with the nerve-wracking process of constant appeals. All of this because I turned 18 during the process, rendering me thus a completely independent applicant which led migri to assume that my family's grounds for asylum do not spread onto me. Anyways, I'm all over being bitter about the whole thing (almost) and after I had my appeal rejected in May I've completely given up on the idea of actually getting an asylum here. So far the only thing that actually allows me to be here and work is the mere fact that the process is still ongoing. I am currently waiting for an answer on my Valituslupa, which I do not expect to be positive, but which in turn grants me a couple of months of time to work something out.

As soon as I had my appeal rejected I've decided that it is time to find a job and fortunately so I managed to find one as a cleaner in a fairly big company in Tampere, working 35 hours a week. I got my application going in september and today, to my surprise, I got to find out that the decision was negative due to TE-toimisto's partial decision. As far as I understood they claim that the "vakuutetut tunnit" that my contractor put in the application did not exceed the limit, eventhough I actually do more hours than those listed there. I've contacted my lawyer and I've been in touch with a group that helps people in the same situation as mine, and I'm still waiting on their response. Also I contacted my workgiver to make sure that they were aware of the crushing ball pain that they've caused me. Does anyone know if those places are willing to raise those vakuutetut tunnit or is it some shady tactic they use to make sure people don't end up suing them or something?

Anyways, I'm not sure what I'm doing writing here. I suppose I just wanted to share my not-so-pleasant story and perhaps ask for you advice on what I should do here. I know that you guys are not experts, but perhaps through some chance you happen to know someone who's been through the same.

So far my plan is as such - I need to be able to work anywhere. I have some money saved up, around 7000 euros. I speak finnish at a B2 level, there is a test I took in december last year, so maybe I'm even higher, although I've been less strict on my use of finnish. I'm a web-developer and with my skillset and work-experience I should be able to land a junior-mid position fairly easily. Is there some school I perhaps can go to that would take me on easily and that would allow me to apply for the residence permit based on studies? As far as I know there's a law that prevents asylum seekers from doing that, and so I leave that as a last resort in case I can't get @#$% all out of my current job. I don't have much time left, so I gotta do something quick.

I'm just fatigued and really frustrated. And it is a strange feeling, too, it's not like there's anyone in particular I can blame. I just wanted someone to see this and perhaps you could appreciate your situation a bit more. On my way in the bus I just look at all the people and I feel so happy for them because never in their life will they have to deal with this bureaucratic mess.



Frustration with the process.

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FinlandGirl
Posts: 562
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: Frustration with the process.

Post by FinlandGirl » Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:23 am

absolutelynot wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:18 am
As far as I understood they claim that the "vakuutetut tunnit" that my contractor put in the application did not exceed the limit, eventhough I actually do more hours than those listed there.
For the residence permit it does not matter how many hours you are working today, what matters is how much salary is guaranteed by your employment contract - the minimum hours in the contract.
absolutelynot wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:18 am
I've decided that it is time to find a job and fortunately so I managed to find one as a cleaner in a fairly big company in Tampere
absolutelynot wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:18 am
I'm a web-developer and with my skillset and work-experience I should be able to land a junior-mid position fairly easily.
If you are able to land a web-developer position fairly easily, why did you start working as a cleaner?

absolutelynot
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:50 am

Re: Frustration with the process.

Post by absolutelynot » Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:48 pm

FinlandGirl wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:23 am
absolutelynot wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:18 am
As far as I understood they claim that the "vakuutetut tunnit" that my contractor put in the application did not exceed the limit, eventhough I actually do more hours than those listed there.
For the residence permit it does not matter how many hours you are working today, what matters is how much salary is guaranteed by your employment contract - the minimum hours in the contract.



I guess it's a well-known fact that seems to have gone over my head. The place that helped me out with the whole thing said that it doesn't matter how many hours I work as long as I go over 1300 euros a month.
If you are able to land a web-developer position fairly easily, why did you start working as a cleaner?
I needed to get something quickly that would allow me to breeze through the process. The whole time I was under impression that I am incredibly short on time and that I have 2 months at most. That was in may and I got my first job offer in july, so you can imagine that I took whatever turned out first. I ended up doing lots of side-gigs since then, so I doubt I was really that much hireable anyway. Anyways, here I am breezed through the process.
Last edited by absolutelynot on Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

FinlandGirl
Posts: 562
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: Frustration with the process.

Post by FinlandGirl » Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:29 pm

absolutelynot wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:48 pm
FinlandGirl wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:23 am
absolutelynot wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:18 am
As far as I understood they claim that the "vakuutetut tunnit" that my contractor put in the application did not exceed the limit, eventhough I actually do more hours than those listed there.
For the residence permit it does not matter how many hours you are working today, what matters is how much salary is guaranteed by your employment contract - the minimum hours in the contract.
I guess it's a well-known fact that seems to have gone over my head. The place that helped me out with the whole thing said that it doesn't matter how many hours I work as long as I go over 1300 euros a month.
It is true that the amount of hours does not matter much, as long as your employment contract guarantees at least this salary.

For hourly paid jobs the guaranteed hours are usually a factor for the guaranteed salary:
guaranteed salary = guaranteed hours * hourly pay

betelgeuse
Posts: 3728
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Frustration with the process.

Post by betelgeuse » Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:39 pm

absolutelynot wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:18 am
As soon as I had my appeal rejected I've decided that it is time to find a job and fortunately so I managed to find one as a cleaner in a fairly big company in Tampere, working 35 hours a week. I got my application going in september and today, to my surprise, I got to find out that the decision was negative due to TE-toimisto's partial decision. As far as I understood they claim that the "vakuutetut tunnit" that my contractor put in the application did not exceed the limit, eventhough I actually do more hours than those listed there. I've contacted my lawyer and I've been in touch with a group that helps people in the same situation as mine, and I'm still waiting on their response. Also I contacted my workgiver to make sure that they were aware of the crushing ball pain that they've caused me. Does anyone know if those places are willing to raise those vakuutetut tunnit or is it some shady tactic they use to make sure people don't end up suing them or something?
When you have six months of steady work, you can try the following process:

"If the actual working hours over the preceding six months demonstrate that the agreed minimum working hours do not correspond to the employer’s actual need for labour, the employer must, at the employee’s request, negotiate an amendment to the working hours clause to correspond to the actual need. The negotiations must be undertaken within a reasonable time and the employee has the right to use an assistant in the negotiations. If no agreement is reached on new minimum working hours, the employer must present in writing relevant grounds justifying how the valid working hours clause still corresponds to the employer’s labour need."

https://finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokset/20 ... 010055.pdf

betelgeuse
Posts: 3728
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Frustration with the process.

Post by betelgeuse » Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:44 pm

absolutelynot wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:18 am
Is there some school I perhaps can go to that would take me on easily and that would allow me to apply for the residence permit based on studies? As far as I know there's a law that prevents asylum seekers from doing that, and so I leave that as a last resort in case I can't get @#$% all out of my current job.
You seem to be mistaken about the study access.

"Ulkomaalaislaki ei rajoita turvapaikanhakijan opiskelua eivätkä myöskään perusopetuslaki, lukiolaki, ammatillisesta koulutuksesta annettu laki, vapaasta sivistystyöstä annettu laki, yliopistolaki eikä ammattikorkeakoululaki."

https://minedu.fi/turvapaikanhakijoiden-opiskelu

absolutelynot
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:50 am

Re: Frustration with the process.

Post by absolutelynot » Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:57 pm

betelgeuse wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:39 pm
absolutelynot wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:18 am
As soon as I had my appeal rejected I've decided that it is time to find a job and fortunately so I managed to find one as a cleaner in a fairly big company in Tampere, working 35 hours a week. I got my application going in september and today, to my surprise, I got to find out that the decision was negative due to TE-toimisto's partial decision. As far as I understood they claim that the "vakuutetut tunnit" that my contractor put in the application did not exceed the limit, eventhough I actually do more hours than those listed there. I've contacted my lawyer and I've been in touch with a group that helps people in the same situation as mine, and I'm still waiting on their response. Also I contacted my workgiver to make sure that they were aware of the crushing ball pain that they've caused me. Does anyone know if those places are willing to raise those vakuutetut tunnit or is it some shady tactic they use to make sure people don't end up suing them or something?
When you have six months of steady work, you can try the following process:

"If the actual working hours over the preceding six months demonstrate that the agreed minimum working hours do not correspond to the employer’s actual need for labour, the employer must, at the employee’s request, negotiate an amendment to the working hours clause to correspond to the actual need. The negotiations must be undertaken within a reasonable time and the employee has the right to use an assistant in the negotiations. If no agreement is reached on new minimum working hours, the employer must present in writing relevant grounds justifying how the valid working hours clause still corresponds to the employer’s labour need."

https://finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokset/20 ... 010055.pdf
Many thanks, I will look into that.

betelgeuse wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:44 pm
absolutelynot wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:18 am
Is there some school I perhaps can go to that would take me on easily and that would allow me to apply for the residence permit based on studies? As far as I know there's a law that prevents asylum seekers from doing that, and so I leave that as a last resort in case I can't get @#$% all out of my current job.
You seem to be mistaken about the study access.

"Ulkomaalaislaki ei rajoita turvapaikanhakijan opiskelua eivätkä myöskään perusopetuslaki, lukiolaki, ammatillisesta koulutuksesta annettu laki, vapaasta sivistystyöstä annettu laki, yliopistolaki eikä ammattikorkeakoululaki."

https://minedu.fi/turvapaikanhakijoiden-opiskelu
Oh no, it's not that I am not able to study, it's that I cannot have both an asylum and student RP application at the same time. In theory I can take away my asylum application and apply for student's RP, but it's a bit risky as my asylum is the only thing that grants me the legal right to stay and if I take it away I risk getting deported because according to Migri I can just as well wait for their decision in my home country. Although I doubt it considering the current corona situation. So this should be a last resort pretty much. Either way, thank you for taking time to look into this.

Random Dude
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:35 pm

Re: Frustration with the process.

Post by Random Dude » Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:06 pm

Hello OP, Sorry to hear about your frustration. I for one was helping a friend of mine who was in an exactly similar situation as you. He came here as an asylum seeker around 2015 and then got a negative decision. He then appealed his decision and his appeal was going nowhere and in fact, still hasn't been resolved.

However, we had a vacancy at my current workplace and I got him a job here as a cleaner at the beginning of 2019. We offered him a 30hour/week contract, assuming that would be enough to secure his work permit. He made the application and was regularly uploading his salary slips which showed him working around 150 - 160 hours every month and making 1700 - 2000 Euros every month. In about 8 months after his application, he received a negative decision as just like your case, because the TE office gave a partially negative decision. Their reasoning was based on 2 different clauses, and one clause was about him not having a full-time permanent contract and the other about there being enough cleaning workers inside the EU.

This sounds a lot like your current situation to me. In his case after this, he did weigh his option to challenge the decision but he was advised by lawyers to make a new application with a full-time contract. Considering, he was already working full-time, we offered him a full-time contract (160 hours/month) with a monthly salary. I believe he made the second application towards the end of 2019 and luckily for him, he received his 1-year work permit just a few months ago.

I just wanted to tell you his story in as much detail as possible as it sounds exactly similar to yours and you may find it helpful. And as with his case, my suggestion would be to find an employer that is willing to offer you a full-time contract with a monthly salary and support your case during the application process.

I hope it works out for you. Cheers!


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