Cancellation of a permit when residing outside Finland

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farfaraway
Posts: 64
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:31 pm

Cancellation of a permit when residing outside Finland

Post by farfaraway » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:52 am

Hi!

I have read this link on migri website about when a permit might be cancelled, but I'm still a bit confused about the 2 year continuous period they mention there.

I'm having a permanent residence permit and owning an apartment in Finland (not sure if it matters), and I plan to go back to my home country for about 4 years, then coming back to Finland. During that 4 years, I'm gonna stay in my home country for about 8 months and 4 months in Finland (mostly during the winter since I love winters) each year. So obviously I'm not gonna be outside of Finland for 2 years continuously, but do they have any kind of "cooldown" period where you have to stay in Finland for x amount of time before the 2-year period is reset. For example, when you live outside Finland for 8 months, come back to Finland for 4 months, and leave again for 5 months, you then have 8+5=13 months outside of Finland, but if you live in Finland for 6 months (imaginary number), then the 8 month living outside of Finland is reset and you still have 2 years.

And about job/income, I'm not sure if it matters but I can work remotely from pretty much anywhere, so it shouldn't be a problem.

Obviously, I'm not going anywhere now as Covid is hitting hard, but just want to ask this first before I start any serious planning (I've tried to ask migri but they either refer me to the above link or I'm being put on queue forever)

Thanks!



Cancellation of a permit when residing outside Finland

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rinso
Posts: 3919
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:22 pm

Re: Cancellation of a permit when residing outside Finland

Post by rinso » Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:32 pm

It might be tricky, especially since migri doesn't give a clear answer.
For instance for tax reasons you have to live 183 days per year in Finland to be considered a "resident".
So being away for more than 6 months a few years in a row might indeed cause doubt on your residence status.
The only sure answer is the one you're getting from migri. (preferably in writing).

betelgeuse
Posts: 3726
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Cancellation of a permit when residing outside Finland

Post by betelgeuse » Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:11 pm

farfaraway wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:52 am
I have read this link on migri website about when a permit might be cancelled, but I'm still a bit confused about the 2 year continuous period they mention there.

I'm having a permanent residence permit and owning an apartment in Finland (not sure if it matters), and I plan to go back to my home country for about 4 years, then coming back to Finland. During that 4 years, I'm gonna stay in my home country for about 8 months and 4 months in Finland (mostly during the winter since I love winters) each year.
"If you move permanently away from Finland, your residence permit will be cancelled."

In your situation you would be required to notify the population register about a permanent move abroad.

"When you move abroad for more than one year it is a permanent move. "

https://dvv.fi/en/moving-to-finland-fro ... om-finland

farfaraway
Posts: 64
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:31 pm

Re: Cancellation of a permit when residing outside Finland

Post by farfaraway » Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:28 pm

rinso wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:32 pm
It might be tricky, especially since migri doesn't give a clear answer.
For instance for tax reasons you have to live 183 days per year in Finland to be considered a "resident".
So being away for more than 6 months a few years in a row might indeed cause doubt on your residence status.
The only sure answer is the one you're getting from migri. (preferably in writing).
In tax matters, it makes sense. But at the same time I am not asking for any unemployment benefits while I'm "on the move", not sure if they really care
What they (migri) gave me is exactly what's written in the website, hence the confusion. I'll try to be a lot more patient to get on the phone with them
betelgeuse wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:11 pm
"If you move permanently away from Finland, your residence permit will be cancelled."

In your situation you would be required to notify the population register about a permanent move abroad.

"When you move abroad for more than one year it is a permanent move. "

https://dvv.fi/en/moving-to-finland-fro ... om-finland
The tricky part is that I'm only away for about 8 months (less than a year), with 4 months period in Finland as I still have my stuff here in Finland. They also state it here
When you move abroad for less than one year it is a temporary move. In this case, your home municipality will remain in Finland with its rights and obligations.
Looks like I'm in a weird situation, and I don't think migri likes this kind of special case :?

betelgeuse
Posts: 3726
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Cancellation of a permit when residing outside Finland

Post by betelgeuse » Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:12 pm

farfaraway wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:28 pm
betelgeuse wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:11 pm
"If you move permanently away from Finland, your residence permit will be cancelled."

In your situation you would be required to notify the population register about a permanent move abroad.

"When you move abroad for more than one year it is a permanent move. "

https://dvv.fi/en/moving-to-finland-fro ... om-finland
The tricky part is that I'm only away for about 8 months (less than a year), with 4 months period in Finland as I still have my stuff here in Finland. They also state it here
The process won't surprise you.

"Vallitsevan käytännön mukaan ennen oleskeluluvan peruuttamispäätöksen tekemistä luvan haltijalle on varattava tilaisuus antaa selityksensä mahdollisesta peruuttamisesityksestä ja asian ratkaisuun vaikuttavista muista selvityksistä."

This could give a window to show the move wasn't permanent by staying again in Finland longer.
farfaraway wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:28 pm
The tricky part is that I'm only away for about 8 months (less than a year), with 4 months period in Finland as I still have my stuff here in Finland. They also state it here
As you can notify DVV one month in advance, you could get their opinion before you actually move.
farfaraway wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:28 pm
Looks like I'm in a weird situation, and I don't think migri likes this kind of special case :?
The fee isn't too bad to force them to give some kind of a binding answer from Migri.

https://migri.fi/documents/5202425/5790 ... 8en%29.pdf

It's heavily implied they won't act before two years is up.

FinlandGirl
Posts: 562
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: Cancellation of a permit when residing outside Finland

Post by FinlandGirl » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:54 pm

farfaraway wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:52 am
I'm having a permanent residence permit and owning an apartment in Finland (not sure if it matters), and I plan to go back to my home country for about 4 years, then coming back to Finland. During that 4 years, I'm gonna stay in my home country for about 8 months and 4 months in Finland (mostly during the winter since I love winters) each year. So obviously I'm not gonna be outside of Finland for 2 years continuously, but do they have any kind of "cooldown" period where you have to stay in Finland for x amount of time before the 2-year period is reset. For example, when you live outside Finland for 8 months, come back to Finland for 4 months, and leave again for 5 months, you then have 8+5=13 months outside of Finland, but if you live in Finland for 6 months (imaginary number), then the 8 month living outside of Finland is reset and you still have 2 years.

And about job/income, I'm not sure if it matters but I can work remotely from pretty much anywhere, so it shouldn't be a problem.
Will you be officially residing and paying taxes in Finland during your stays in Finland?
This is what resets the 2 years.

If the information you provided for the population register states that you have not officially resided in Finland during the past 2 years, it does not matter whether you have visited Finland as a tourist.

farfaraway
Posts: 64
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:31 pm

Re: Cancellation of a permit when residing outside Finland

Post by farfaraway » Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:25 pm

betelgeuse wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:12 pm
The process won't surprise you.

"Vallitsevan käytännön mukaan ennen oleskeluluvan peruuttamispäätöksen tekemistä luvan haltijalle on varattava tilaisuus antaa selityksensä mahdollisesta peruuttamisesityksestä ja asian ratkaisuun vaikuttavista muista selvityksistä."

This could give a window to show the move wasn't permanent by staying again in Finland longer.

As you can notify DVV one month in advance, you could get their opinion before you actually move.

The fee isn't too bad to force them to give some kind of a binding answer from Migri.

https://migri.fi/documents/5202425/5790 ... 8en%29.pdf

It's heavily implied they won't act before two years is up.
FinlandGirl wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:54 pm
Will you be officially residing and paying taxes in Finland during your stays in Finland?
This is what resets the 2 years.

If the information you provided for the population register states that you have not officially resided in Finland during the past 2 years, it does not matter whether you have visited Finland as a tourist.
Thank you both for your answers. I think I have a pretty clear picture now. And of course I will consult migri again before I actually move


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