Citizenship Application 2021

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betelgeuse
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Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by betelgeuse » Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:19 pm

mesim wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:19 am
But, here you have debt as student loan. One of the conditions is that you do not have any debt. Please see https://migri.fi/en/payment-obligation
That is clearly said that, you need to pay your debt, otherwise you most-likely will end up getting rejected. If I were you, I would at least start to pay the debt (if possible) and apply right away. This may show that you have not neglected your obligation.
The page could be more clear. What it means is that you can’t have debt to the public sector that is past due date.



Re: Citizenship Application 2021

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betelgeuse
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Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by betelgeuse » Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:31 pm

Marty2000 wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:25 am
The issue of conscription for new citizens is rather confusing! As I was reading the conscription act, there's this line in the Section 13,

'' Call-up candidates do not include persons who have been granted Finnish citizenship or a decision about citizenship during or after the year they turn 18 years of age. These persons can, however, be summoned to an examination pursuant to section 26. ''

Does anyone have any clear idea about that?
It just means the process in section 26 is used instead of the call-up.

Marty2000
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Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by Marty2000 » Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:12 pm

betelgeuse wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:31 pm
Marty2000 wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:25 am
The issue of conscription for new citizens is rather confusing! As I was reading the conscription act, there's this line in the Section 13,

'' Call-up candidates do not include persons who have been granted Finnish citizenship or a decision about citizenship during or after the year they turn 18 years of age. These persons can, however, be summoned to an examination pursuant to section 26. ''

Does anyone have any clear idea about that?
It just means the process in section 26 is used instead of the call-up.
Thanks for your response!

Do you have any ideas what’s the difference between Call-up and being examined by regional offices?

As far as I understood Call-up is the usual procedure of drafting which every 18yo goes through, however, as a foreigner who’s going to become 30 this year in August, I don’t understand why call-up doesn’t apply to me but regional office can decide for me regardless!

Also, what’s the actual experience of people like us? Have they actually gone to military service, even if they’ve become Finnish citizen by application in the same year with few months left to become 30yo or few months after becoming 30 by the end of the same year? Just asking since information available is contradictory! Finnish friends that I’ve talked to told me it’s highly unlikely to be called for military service at around 30yo or after

yrtti
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Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by yrtti » Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:15 am

I'm also interested in hearing from other people who got citizenship at or around the age of 30. I'm sure there's some of those people in the forums here.

In another thread (which I cannot find now on mobile) called (Max age for conscription), there was a very long discussion on the rules for drafting. A native ultimately translated the law and it said "The age for mandatory military service ends the year that the citizen turns 31". Meaning that getting citizenship any time before that year means you have to go. For example, if you turned 30 on July 20th 2021 and got citizenship in November 20th 2021, you still have to go. Though whether or not they'd grab you immediately before the end of the year and draft you is very unlikely and another case.

There was then even another clause which was that you had to first be put into the draft and for this the mandatory responsibility ended at age 30. You had to have been drafted to serve, which technically means it's not possible to serve after age 30. Making the former paragraph whereby duty to serve ends in the year in which you turn 31, being a moot point.

BUT someone mentioned in the other thread that doesn't apply to naturalised citizens (all of us).

At this point I think one of us should talk to a lawyer... I used to have free legal aid but I don't any more...

The only case I've heard of someone going at age 30 was a person who got citizenship granted in September at age 29 and turned 30 in December and was called for draft starting January of next year regardless. I don't know if that counts for those of us who will get citizenship after age 30.

betelgeuse
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Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by betelgeuse » Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:47 am

yrtti wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:15 am
In another thread (which I cannot find now on mobile) called (Max age for conscription), there was a very long discussion on the rules for drafting. A native ultimately translated the law and it said "The age for mandatory military service ends the year that the citizen turns 31".
It doesn't say that. "Velvollisuus suorittaa varusmiespalvelusta rauhan aikana päättyy sen vuoden lopussa, jona asevelvollinen täyttää 30 vuotta."

https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/ ... 1438#L5P37

betelgeuse
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Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by betelgeuse » Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:50 am

Marty2000 wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:12 pm
Do you have any ideas what’s the difference between Call-up and being examined by regional offices?
The goal of the former is to make decision in bulk and the latter to pluck the gaps.

parrraxitamoan
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Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by parrraxitamoan » Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:40 am

yrtti wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:15 am
I'm also interested in hearing from other people who got citizenship at or around the age of 30. I'm sure there's some of those people in the forums here.

In another thread (which I cannot find now on mobile) called (Max age for conscription), there was a very long discussion on the rules for drafting. A native ultimately translated the law and it said "The age for mandatory military service ends the year that the citizen turns 31". Meaning that getting citizenship any time before that year means you have to go. For example, if you turned 30 on July 20th 2021 and got citizenship in November 20th 2021, you still have to go. Though whether or not they'd grab you immediately before the end of the year and draft you is very unlikely and another case.

There was then even another clause which was that you had to first be put into the draft and for this the mandatory responsibility ended at age 30. You had to have been drafted to serve, which technically means it's not possible to serve after age 30. Making the former paragraph whereby duty to serve ends in the year in which you turn 31, being a moot point.

BUT someone mentioned in the other thread that doesn't apply to naturalised citizens (all of us).

At this point I think one of us should talk to a lawyer... I used to have free legal aid but I don't any more...

The only case I've heard of someone going at age 30 was a person who got citizenship granted in September at age 29 and turned 30 in December and was called for draft starting January of next year regardless. I don't know if that counts for those of us who will get citizenship after age 30.
If serving the military is so much of a burden to you, when registering as a new citizen, you can choose your gender as a female and then after 30 you can change it back to male :lol: how come people who aren't born Finnish want to be part of the society and enjoy all benefits but can't bare the cost? even if that is the case, just wait for a couple of months/years later then, it is still a privilege because Finnish born don't have that choice.
Last edited by parrraxitamoan on Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

betelgeuse
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Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by betelgeuse » Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:38 am

parrraxitamoan wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:40 am
If serving the military is so much of a burden to you, when registering as a new citizen, you can choose your gender as a female and then after 30 you can change it back to male :lol: how come people who aren't born Finnish want to be part of the society and enjoy the benefits but can't bare the cost? even if that is the case, just wait for a couple of months/years later then, it is still a privilege because Finnish born don't have that choice.
You don’t get to choose your registered sex on gaining citizenship. The one recorded in the population register stays. In general there’s no such process as ”registering as a new citizen”.

petbek-125
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Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by petbek-125 » Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:16 am

parrraxitamoan wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:40 am
yrtti wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:15 am
I'm also interested in hearing from other people who got citizenship at or around the age of 30. I'm sure there's some of those people in the forums here.

In another thread (which I cannot find now on mobile) called (Max age for conscription), there was a very long discussion on the rules for drafting. A native ultimately translated the law and it said "The age for mandatory military service ends the year that the citizen turns 31". Meaning that getting citizenship any time before that year means you have to go. For example, if you turned 30 on July 20th 2021 and got citizenship in November 20th 2021, you still have to go. Though whether or not they'd grab you immediately before the end of the year and draft you is very unlikely and another case.

There was then even another clause which was that you had to first be put into the draft and for this the mandatory responsibility ended at age 30. You had to have been drafted to serve, which technically means it's not possible to serve after age 30. Making the former paragraph whereby duty to serve ends in the year in which you turn 31, being a moot point.

BUT someone mentioned in the other thread that doesn't apply to naturalised citizens (all of us).

At this point I think one of us should talk to a lawyer... I used to have free legal aid but I don't any more...

The only case I've heard of someone going at age 30 was a person who got citizenship granted in September at age 29 and turned 30 in December and was called for draft starting January of next year regardless. I don't know if that counts for those of us who will get citizenship after age 30.
If serving the military is so much of a burden to you, when registering as a new citizen, you can choose your gender as a female and then after 30 you can change it back to male :lol: how come people who aren't born Finnish want to be part of the society and enjoy all benefits but can't bare the cost? even if that is the case, just wait for a couple of months/years later then, it is still a privilege because Finnish born don't have that choice.
Here we go again another "big man" who is so proud of his masculinity and telling everyone to go to the army. Look if you are naive enough to think there is honor in dying for a piece of cloth called flag and some ridiculous words called anthem, thats your thing, but some of us are just too smart to buy that horsesh¤%t. Pulling triggers is easy, but i would rather be the one sending naive soldiers to die than to be the one dying for some weapon industries and rich decision makers while they drink their champagne. If the "dignity, honor, bravery"- package is a source of self-value and self-respect to you, good for you. As a pragmatic person i know we r just punch of animals born on this planet, every childish group calling themselves by some nationality and drawing ridiculous symbols on some cloth material. I wouldnt die for any country neither Finland nor the one in which i was born. You probably thinking why dont they man up, but we r thinking why dont you smart up .

yrtti
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Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by yrtti » Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:18 am

parrraxitamoan wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:40 am
If serving the military is so much of a burden to you, when registering as a new citizen, you can choose your gender as a female and then after 30 you can change it back to male :lol: how come people who aren't born Finnish want to be part of the society and enjoy all benefits but can't bare the cost? even if that is the case, just wait for a couple of months/years later then, it is still a privilege because Finnish born don't have that choice.
Imagine being this much of an ignorant egoist. I can't for the life of me understand how a person could seriously feel this way.

In my birth country, you are conscripted also automatically at the age of 18. Our army is nothing like the Finnish army. It's slavery and it's terror. You are conscripted into service and literally sent into situations where you may be wounded or die, even just as a recruit as part of your training. I would not wish this on my worst enemy, and there is no one, maybe only the 1% who wish to continue their service afterwards. Most leave with PTSD, injuries or other ailments. In short, I'll make it really easy for a moron like you to understand. It causes more @#$% problems than it solves. Army, conscription, war. It's all the same regardless of what flag the army "protects". They cause more problems than they solve. I did my service already for my birth country and I have worked and paid tax in this country, never broken it's laws and only ever helped others try to be comfortable here, day in, day out for damn near 12 years. Some would say that I've earned the right to be here more than most have. You'd dismiss this because I don't feel like crawling through the mud or firing a weapon all over again? I've done two degrees in this country. Every single year here, I have done things 100x more positive for this country than being barked orders at. PLUS I already know how to handle a weapon! Doing the service now or not would not stop them forcing me to serve if it came to war anyway. So what does it even matter now whether I do it or not!?

The only person whom I could imagine says something like this is one or more of the following:

1. Someone who got citizenship when they were too old themselves to serve, but still writes snarky crap like this.
2. Someone who is brainwashed into thinking that armies and armed conflict is something to be proud of.
3. Someone who thinks that because they had to do something, everyone should have to do it whether they themselves did it willingly or not.
4. Someone who has never served in the army and has no idea what it is capable of doing to the recruit.
5. Someone who romanticizes conflict because they have never come face-to-face with it.

I can't believe someone would gatekeep masculinity and what it means to be/deserve Finnish citizenship like this. What a load of crap!

EDIT: Ok so, I looked you up. You left some contact information here and it was easy to find who you are. With respect to your privacy I'll stick to what is relevant, you are Vietnamese and got Finnish citizenship sometime in 2017 and did your service in 2018. You also have two master's degrees, the same as me. Honestly, good for you. I'm happy you feel patriotic to Finland, but I wonder if your former and current uni/work colleagues, your boss and your friends feel the same way as you do hmm? I think you take yourself way too seriously for someone who is on his first job that has lasted more than 1 year. Would you really argue that I have not "done my duty" already through employment and many other activities exceeding 10x the time you have?
betelgeuse wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:47 am
yrtti wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:15 am
In another thread (which I cannot find now on mobile) called (Max age for conscription), there was a very long discussion on the rules for drafting. A native ultimately translated the law and it said "The age for mandatory military service ends the year that the citizen turns 31".
It doesn't say that. "Velvollisuus suorittaa varusmiespalvelusta rauhan aikana päättyy sen vuoden lopussa, jona asevelvollinen täyttää 30 vuotta."

https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/ ... 1438#L5P37
Thank you for your Finnish translation beetlegeuse! In Swedish it is a lot more confusing and actually contradicts that what is written in Finnish. Which is why I said "the requirement to serve ends in the year in which you turn 31. Because at least according to the translation I can get in Swedish, your duty to serve lasts through the year in which you turn 30.
13 §
Uppbådspliktiga
Uppbådspliktig är varje manlig finsk medborgare som
1) under uppbådsåret fyller 18 år,

2) uteblivit från tidigare uppbåd, om ett särskilt beslut om hans tjänsteduglighet ännu inte har fattats och han inte har fyllt eller under det året fyller 30 år, eller

3) med stöd av 10 § 2 mom. har förordnats att infinna sig till ny besiktning vid uppbådet.

En person som har förvärvat finskt medborgarskap eller fått ett beslut om medborgarskap under det år då han fyller 18 år eller därefter är inte uppbådspliktig. Personen i fråga kan dock förordnas att infinna sig till besiktning enligt 26 §.

https://www.finlex.fi/sv/laki/ajantasa/ ... a1438-2007
Could you explain why/how the translation differs so much between languages? This is why I said it would be good to get a definitive answer and that maybe the only way to get it sorted out for good is for one of us to talk to a lawyer.
Last edited by yrtti on Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:10 am, edited 2 times in total.

betelgeuse
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Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by betelgeuse » Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:35 am

yrtti wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:18 am
13 §
Uppbådspliktiga
Uppbådspliktig är varje manlig finsk medborgare som
1) under uppbådsåret fyller 18 år,

2) uteblivit från tidigare uppbåd, om ett särskilt beslut om hans tjänsteduglighet ännu inte har fattats och han inte har fyllt eller under det året fyller 30 år, eller

3) med stöd av 10 § 2 mom. har förordnats att infinna sig till ny besiktning vid uppbådet.

En person som har förvärvat finskt medborgarskap eller fått ett beslut om medborgarskap under det år då han fyller 18 år eller därefter är inte uppbådspliktig. Personen i fråga kan dock förordnas att infinna sig till besiktning enligt 26 §.

https://www.finlex.fi/sv/laki/ajantasa/ ... a1438-2007
Could you explain why/how the translation differs so much between languages? This is why I said it would be good to get a definitive answer and that maybe the only way to get it sorted out for good is for one of us to talk to a lawyer.
You are quoting a different section of the act. Section 13 is about the call-up. There's an unofficial translation to English by the government here:

https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokse ... 071438.pdf

yrtti
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Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by yrtti » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:13 am

betelgeuse wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:35 am

You are quoting a different section of the act. Section 13 is about the call-up. There's an unofficial translation to English by the government here:

https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokse ... 071438.pdf
Thanks for that .pdf! I thought, you don't serve if you aren't qualified for/go to a call-up? So wouldn't losing eligibility at the age of 30 (for the call-up) make §37 otherwise redundant?

Furthermore, what happens in the case whereby you're granted citizenship e.g. on 1.9. but the last call-up date for that year was 6.7.? I'd expect normally that you would just be told you'll be scheduled for the first call-up the next year. However, if you're turning 31 that next year, then you're inelligble in both cases (§13 and §37).

So basically how it reads unofficially in English:

1. Every male citizen has to go to the army and will get a call-up to start the induction process.
2. Call-up won't happen after you turn 30 (but any time within that year before you turn 30 you must go).
3. Requirement to serve ends on the first day of the year in which you turn 31. After this you aren't liable for the call-up or to do service anyway.

Unless somehow #2 doesn't always apply and there's a clause or way that they can draft you without a call-up, I thought after re-reading all of this extensively in all 3 languages now. You're clear after turning 30, and especially if that is after Summer when the 2nd and final call-up happens each year (usually at or around 1.7).

What's left however is this part in §13:
Kutsunnanalainen ei ole henkilö, joka on saanut Suomen kansalaisuuden tai päätöksen kansalaisuudesta sinä vuonna, jona hän täyttää 18 vuotta tai sen vuoden jälkeen. Hänet voidaan kuitenkin määrätä tarkastettavaksi 26 §:n mukaan.
Which says that §13 basically doesn't apply for people who are naturalized I guess?

However, then §26(4) states this:
asevelvollinen on 13 §:n 2 momentissa tarkoitettu henkilö.
Which just sends you back to:
on jäänyt edellisiin kutsuntoihin saapumatta, jollei hänen palveluskelpoisuudestaan ole vielä erikseen tehty päätöstä eikä hän ole täyttänyt tai sinä vuonna täytä 30 vuotta;
So whilst it looks on the first hand, that the call-up laws don't apply to naturalized people. §26(4) states the 30 year old age cut-off is still in effect. Which means those who were naturalized/got citizenship through their parents or some other means, their obligation for call-up ends on the date they turn 30. No call-up means no fitness assessment, no fitness assessment means no assignment to military or unarmed service.
Last edited by yrtti on Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:09 am, edited 2 times in total.

betelgeuse
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Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by betelgeuse » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:40 am

yrtti wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:13 am
However, then §26(4) states this:
asevelvollinen on 13 §:n 2 momentissa tarkoitettu henkilö.
Which just sends you back to:
on jäänyt edellisiin kutsuntoihin saapumatta, jollei hänen palveluskelpoisuudestaan ole vielä erikseen tehty päätöstä eikä hän ole täyttänyt tai sinä vuonna täytä 30 vuotta;
So as I understand, the call-up laws/requirements are only for people who were already citizens before (or who got citizenship on the year) they turned 18. Everyone else (those who were naturalized/got citizenship through their parents or some other means), their obligation ends on the date they turn 30.
2 momentissa does not refer to the list (points in a list are called kohta) but to the paragraph: "Kutsunnanalainen ei ole henkilö, joka on saanut Suomen kansalaisuuden tai päätöksen kansalaisuudesta sinä vuonna, jona hän täyttää 18 vuotta tai sen vuoden jälkeen. Hänet voidaan kuitenkin määrätä tarkastettavaksi 26 §:n mukaan."

yrtti
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Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by yrtti » Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:08 am

betelgeuse wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:40 am

2 momentissa does not refer to the list (points in a list are called kohta) but to the paragraph: "Kutsunnanalainen ei ole henkilö, joka on saanut Suomen kansalaisuuden tai päätöksen kansalaisuudesta sinä vuonna, jona hän täyttää 18 vuotta tai sen vuoden jälkeen. Hänet voidaan kuitenkin määrätä tarkastettavaksi 26 §:n mukaan."
I̶ ̶g̶i̶v̶e̶ ̶u̶p̶.̶ ̶I̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶s̶e̶r̶i̶o̶u̶s̶l̶y̶ ̶a̶p̶p̶r̶e̶c̶i̶a̶t̶e̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶a̶t̶t̶e̶m̶p̶t̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶m̶a̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶c̶l̶e̶a̶r̶,̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶I̶ ̶l̶i̶t̶e̶r̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶f̶o̶l̶l̶o̶w̶.̶ ̶T̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶s̶o̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶f̶u̶s̶i̶n̶g̶.̶ ̶I̶ ̶h̶o̶n̶e̶s̶t̶l̶y̶ ̶f̶e̶e̶l̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶c̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶w̶r̶i̶t̶t̶e̶n̶ ̶s̶o̶ ̶m̶u̶c̶h̶ ̶m̶o̶r̶e̶ ̶c̶l̶e̶a̶r̶l̶y̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶.̶.̶.̶ ̶M̶a̶y̶b̶e̶ ̶I̶ ̶a̶m̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶i̶d̶i̶o̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶.̶

I will try one more time to understand this, going by the unofficial translation.
§13 Call-up candidates include every male citizen of Finland who

1) turns 18 years of age during the year of the call-up,
2) has not attended the previous call-up to which he was summoned, unless he has received a separate decision concerning his fitness for military service, and has not yet turned 30 years of age or will turn 30 during the call-up year, or,
3) has been summoned back to call-ups pursuant to section 10(2).

Call-up candidates do not include persons who have been granted Finnish citizenship or a decision about citizenship during or after the year they turn 18 years of age. These persons can, however, be summoned to an examination pursuant to section 26.
For people in bold, this sends to:
§26 Assessment of fitness for military service

The regional office may decide on the fitness for military service of a person liable for military service if:
1) the person has not participated in the call-up,
2) the person has been ordered to participate in an assessment in accordance with section 10(2),
3) the person’s fitness for military service has changed in the period be-tween the call-up and the induction date, or after military service or reservist training, or
4) the person is a person referred to in section 13(2).
So you're saying the underlined §26(4) does not count for the following:
Call-up candidates do not include persons who have been granted Finnish citizenship or a decision about citizenship during or after the year they turn 18 years of age. These persons can, however, be summoned to an examination pursuant to section 26.
In that case, if you're certain that underlined part §26(4) doesn't apply to the part in bold in §13.

Then it would seem the only thing that is legally true is that you're called for call-up if:

1. You have never been to a call-up before, aka §26(1), or
2. It has been 3 years since you were last declared unfit at a call-up and it's time to check again, aka §10(2) or,
3. You've been declared medically unfit for some reason after your call-up/assessment but before starting service, aka §26(3), like maybe you broke your legs or had a mental breakdown during that period.

That would make it then yes,
§37 Determining the term of military service
Conscription liability in peacetime ends at the end of the year in which the person liable for military service turns 30 years of age.
Because then the call-up section and age cut-off doesn't apply to naturalized persons.

One final thing though is still what I said earlier. I assume that if a person got citizenship after the last call-up in a year (which is roughly the first week of July every year). You'd be moved to the following year. However, the following year you'd be excused, going by the writing in §37 above. I wonder then, would they make you go anyway the following year, seeing as you were served a call-up, or could you tell them that you were now excused and didn't want to go and would they even respect that wish.

EDIT: After more reading it seems you'd be subsequent to the following if you got a call-up, and regardless of if you were exempt the following year:
§119 Call-up absence
A person liable for military service who unlawfully fails to arrive at the call-up referred to in section 16, or the examinations referred to in section 26, by the prescribed time, or leaves the call-up without the permission of the military authorities before his matters have been processed, is sentenced to a fine for call-up absence.
or if during mobilization:
§120 Call-up absence during mobilization
If the offence referred to in section 119 is committed during mobilization, the offender is sentenced to a fine or a prison sentence of up to two months.
Presumably neither would be the case if you asked then to be exempted and were accepted. Though it says "unlawfully", and surely you'd be lawfully covered under §37 being that your call-up and thus service, would start in the year in which you turn 31.

Even further reading of §122 and §123, you can't even break your own legs hahaha without getting a fine or prison sentence, going even up to 2 whole years which is worse than just outright verbally denying to do military or unarmed service. I'm quite impressed how watertight the law is and that it's taken so seriously. I just wish it was a little clearer regarding when the duty ends and what happens in the case in which I mentioned and the only time you could do the call-up is beginning in the year when you'd be exempt under §37.

Marty2000
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Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:18 am

Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by Marty2000 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:12 am

I think you guys rely too much on the legislation! :P

Initially I was thinking that military service in Finland is arranged like in 3rd world countries! in a way that as soon as one is liable for it, that person should be drafted immediately! However, after talking to some Finnish friends and learning more about the procedures, I found-out that there are only two call-up events in each year in July and January which are usually reserved for Finnish youth (18yo) well in advance as study places are reserved. Hence there are no Call-ups for naturalized citizens but instead regional offices will examine men liable on a case by case basis!

This means that regardless of the time being granted citizenship before July or after that in the year one turns 30yo, you'll be invited for military service assessment only if there's space/needs! Considering Corona situation and limitation it has imposed, it seems highly unlikely that regional offices would want a 30yo who has just become citizen which may have a lot of physical, financial, and not to forget Finnish language deficiencies to replace an 18yo Finnish youth!

In any eventuality, one can always ask for compassionate exemption based on all the above personal issues. There's also civil service which I read can usually be postponed up to three years because of personal financial difficulties, which means there is an appeal process even for that!

I personally think that like everything else in Finland that a foreigner (especially non-European/white) is considered a burden compared to a native Finn, most probably it's the same in the eyes of military's regional offices mangers when it comes to drafting 30yo foreigners! :lol:


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