KELA & moving abroad after getting the citizenship

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Uskomatonta
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:43 pm

KELA & moving abroad after getting the citizenship

Post by Uskomatonta » Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:05 pm

Hej guys.

I have a question regarding KELA support for those, who decided to move abroad. I have recently got my Finnish passport after almost 10 years of living in Finland and now life is taking me to another EU country (relationship matter): my boyfriend and I are planning to relocate and to try to leave in his home country to see how life is outside of Finalnd and to execute my right as a EU citizen.

I read on KELA website that they provide support if the move is temporary and less than 6 months. But if the move is permanent - no support. So in this case, how to get KELA support me if I don’t know if I will like it in the new country? What do they consider as a temporary move?

Has any had any experience? Please share! Thank you in advance!



KELA & moving abroad after getting the citizenship

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betelgeuse
Posts: 4353
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: KELA & moving abroad after getting the citizenship

Post by betelgeuse » Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:40 pm

Uskomatonta wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:05 pm
Hej guys.

I have a question regarding KELA support for those, who decided to move abroad. I have recently got my Finnish passport after almost 10 years of living in Finland and now life is taking me to another EU country (relationship matter): my boyfriend and I are planning to relocate and to try to leave in his home country to see how life is outside of Finalnd and to execute my right as a EU citizen.

I read on KELA website that they provide support if the move is temporary and less than 6 months. But if the move is permanent - no support. So in this case, how to get KELA support me if I don’t know if I will like it in the new country? What do they consider as a temporary move?

Has any had any experience? Please share! Thank you in advance!
When moving abroad for more than three months you need to make a notification to DVV for change of address (muuttoilmoitus). As part of this process, you select whether the move is temporary or permanent. You must also separately notify Kela.

https://www.kela.fi/web/en/right-to-soc ... ile-abroad

If you don’t know the return date, the move is permanent. If you want to just test living there, you can maintain a home in Finland and return within three months. This way you don’t need to notify anyone.

FinlandGirl
Posts: 1329
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: KELA & moving abroad after getting the citizenship

Post by FinlandGirl » Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:55 pm

Uskomatonta wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:05 pm
I have a question regarding KELA support for those, who decided to move abroad. I have recently got my Finnish passport after almost 10 years of living in Finland and now life is taking me to another EU country (relationship matter): my boyfriend and I are planning to relocate and to try to leave in his home country to see how life is outside of Finalnd and to execute my right as a EU citizen.

I read on KELA website that they provide support if the move is temporary and less than 6 months. But if the move is permanent - no support. So in this case, how to get KELA support me if I don’t know if I will like it in the new country? What do they consider as a temporary move?
What kind of Kela support is actually relevant for you while living abroad?
Usually your social security coverage is in your country of residence, not in your countries of citizenship.

As citizen you can always come back to Finland, which will get you back into Kela.

Uskomatonta
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:43 pm

Re: KELA & moving abroad after getting the citizenship

Post by Uskomatonta » Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:43 pm

Exactly, so I am curious about how does it work if I make a notification in dvv from day one that the stay abroad is temporary (5,5 months for example) is it enough for them to pay me? They clearly say on their website that if the move is temporary - I am entitled to still receiving KELA. I am not trying to cheat the system or anything, I just want to know what determines and how to prove that the move is temporary, since I don’t know if it’s permanent. Is reason “I want to test my life abroad” a good reason enough for a temporary stay?
betelgeuse wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:40 pm
Uskomatonta wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:05 pm
Hej guys.

I have a question regarding KELA support for those, who decided to move abroad. I have recently got my Finnish passport after almost 10 years of living in Finland and now life is taking me to another EU country (relationship matter): my boyfriend and I are planning to relocate and to try to leave in his home country to see how life is outside of Finalnd and to execute my right as a EU citizen.

I read on KELA website that they provide support if the move is temporary and less than 6 months. But if the move is permanent - no support. So in this case, how to get KELA support me if I don’t know if I will like it in the new country? What do they consider as a temporary move?

Has any had any experience? Please share! Thank you in advance!
When moving abroad for more than three months you need to make a notification to DVV for change of address (muuttoilmoitus). As part of this process, you select whether the move is temporary or permanent. You must also separately notify Kela.

https://www.kela.fi/web/en/right-to-soc ... ile-abroad

If you don’t know the return date, the move is permanent. If you want to just test living there, you can maintain a home in Finland and return within three months. This way you don’t need to notify anyone.

Uskomatonta
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:43 pm

Re: KELA & moving abroad after getting the citizenship

Post by Uskomatonta » Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:46 pm

That’s what kela says on their website: if you stay abroad temporarily - you are entitled to support. If your stay is suddenly longer - the payment stops immediately. So, how can I tell them that it is temporary if I don’t know yet.
FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:55 pm
Uskomatonta wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:05 pm
I have a question regarding KELA support for those, who decided to move abroad. I have recently got my Finnish passport after almost 10 years of living in Finland and now life is taking me to another EU country (relationship matter): my boyfriend and I are planning to relocate and to try to leave in his home country to see how life is outside of Finalnd and to execute my right as a EU citizen.

I read on KELA website that they provide support if the move is temporary and less than 6 months. But if the move is permanent - no support. So in this case, how to get KELA support me if I don’t know if I will like it in the new country? What do they consider as a temporary move?
What kind of Kela support is actually relevant for you while living abroad?
Usually your social security coverage is in your country of residence, not in your countries of citizenship.

As citizen you can always come back to Finland, which will get you back into Kela.

FinlandGirl
Posts: 1329
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: KELA & moving abroad after getting the citizenship

Post by FinlandGirl » Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:55 am

Uskomatonta wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:43 pm
Exactly, so I am curious about how does it work if I make a notification in dvv from day one that the stay abroad is temporary (5,5 months for example) is it enough for them to pay me?
What kind of payment are you receiving from Kela?

A move being temporary for DVV does not imply that Kela coverage will continue.
DVV, Kela and Vero all have different rules, e.g. after a move that is permanent for DVV and removes Kela coverage you might still be a customer of Vero.

Kela coverage does not imply that all benefits will continue.
It is for example not possible to receive Finnish unemployment benefits without being a customer of TE.

betelgeuse
Posts: 4353
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: KELA & moving abroad after getting the citizenship

Post by betelgeuse » Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:23 am

FinlandGirl wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:55 am
Uskomatonta wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:43 pm
Exactly, so I am curious about how does it work if I make a notification in dvv from day one that the stay abroad is temporary (5,5 months for example) is it enough for them to pay me?
What kind of payment are you receiving from Kela?

A move being temporary for DVV does not imply that Kela coverage will continue.
DVV, Kela and Vero all have different rules, e.g. after a move that is permanent for DVV and removes Kela coverage you might still be a customer of Vero.

Kela coverage does not imply that all benefits will continue.
It is for example not possible to receive Finnish unemployment benefits without being a customer of TE.
It’s possible to switch from TE to the foreign equivalent for three months.

” If you receive basic unemployment allowance and you plan to register as a jobseeker in another EU or EEA country or Switzerland, you should well in advance notify the TE Services about this. You retain your entitlement to basic unemployment allowance paid by Kela for a maximum of 3 months.”

https://www.kela.fi/web/en/unenmploymen ... situations

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browndude
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Location: Helsinki

Re: KELA & moving abroad after getting the citizenship

Post by browndude » Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:34 pm

FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:55 pm
As citizen you can always come back to Finland, which will get you back into Kela.
I think you do not automatically qualify for KELA upon moving back even if you are a Finnish citizen. I think there is some requirement of having paid taxes in Finland for a certain period of time before you qualify for all KELA benefits.
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FinlandGirl
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Re: KELA & moving abroad after getting the citizenship

Post by FinlandGirl » Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:50 pm

browndude wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:34 pm
FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:55 pm
As citizen you can always come back to Finland, which will get you back into Kela.
I think you do not automatically qualify for KELA upon moving back even if you are a Finnish citizen. I think there is some requirement of having paid taxes in Finland for a certain period of time before you qualify for all KELA benefits.
What benefit are you referring to?

There are two different kinds of Kela allowances for unemployed jobseekers, depending on whether you have worked before unemloyment.
The amount of money is the same for both.

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browndude
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Location: Helsinki

Re: KELA & moving abroad after getting the citizenship

Post by browndude » Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:39 pm

FinlandGirl wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:50 pm
browndude wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:34 pm
FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:55 pm
As citizen you can always come back to Finland, which will get you back into Kela.
I think you do not automatically qualify for KELA upon moving back even if you are a Finnish citizen. I think there is some requirement of having paid taxes in Finland for a certain period of time before you qualify for all KELA benefits.
What benefit are you referring to?

There are two different kinds of Kela allowances for unemployed jobseekers, depending on whether you have worked before unemloyment.
The amount of money is the same for both.
To be honest I am not fully sure which one I am talking about :lol: . I do know this. When my spouse who is a Finnish citizen moved abroad for a few years to study, she had to get a special dispensation to make sure that she did not lose certain benefits. This was 10+ years ago so I do not know if things have changed since. My point is that it would be prudent to know exactly what the situation would be from KELA's perspective ahead of time in order to avoid any red-tape surprises.

According to this, there is at least some impact on the parental benefit and the pension.

https://www.kela.fi/suomesta-ulkomaille-paluu-suomeen

"Suomessa edellytetään tietynpituista asumiskautta vanhempainpäivärahojen ja kansaneläkkeen saamiseksi."
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betelgeuse
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Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: KELA & moving abroad after getting the citizenship

Post by betelgeuse » Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:02 pm

browndude wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:39 pm
FinlandGirl wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:50 pm
browndude wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:34 pm


I think you do not automatically qualify for KELA upon moving back even if you are a Finnish citizen. I think there is some requirement of having paid taxes in Finland for a certain period of time before you qualify for all KELA benefits.
What benefit are you referring to?

There are two different kinds of Kela allowances for unemployed jobseekers, depending on whether you have worked before unemloyment.
The amount of money is the same for both.
To be honest I am not fully sure which one I am talking about :lol: . I do know this. When my spouse who is a Finnish citizen moved abroad for a few years to study, she had to get a special dispensation to make sure that she did not lose certain benefits. This was 10+ years ago so I do not know if things have changed since. My point is that it would be prudent to know exactly what the situation would be from KELA's perspective ahead of time in order to avoid any red-tape surprises.
Students have special rules that allow them to stay covered while studying abroad.
browndude wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:39 pm

According to this, there is at least some impact on the parental benefit and the pension.

https://www.kela.fi/suomesta-ulkomaille-paluu-suomeen

"Suomessa edellytetään tietynpituista asumiskautta vanhempainpäivärahojen ja kansaneläkkeen saamiseksi."
Why did you stop reading? ” Jos muutat Suomeen toisesta EU- tai Eta-maasta tai Sveitsistä, pystyt yleensä hyödyntämään näissä maissa täytettyjä vakuutuskausia odotusajan täyttämiseen.”

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browndude
Posts: 423
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Location: Helsinki

Re: KELA & moving abroad after getting the citizenship

Post by browndude » Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:18 pm

betelgeuse wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:02 pm
browndude wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:39 pm
FinlandGirl wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:50 pm


What benefit are you referring to?

There are two different kinds of Kela allowances for unemployed jobseekers, depending on whether you have worked before unemloyment.
The amount of money is the same for both.
To be honest I am not fully sure which one I am talking about :lol: . I do know this. When my spouse who is a Finnish citizen moved abroad for a few years to study, she had to get a special dispensation to make sure that she did not lose certain benefits. This was 10+ years ago so I do not know if things have changed since. My point is that it would be prudent to know exactly what the situation would be from KELA's perspective ahead of time in order to avoid any red-tape surprises.
Students have special rules that allow them to stay covered while studying abroad.
browndude wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:39 pm

According to this, there is at least some impact on the parental benefit and the pension.

https://www.kela.fi/suomesta-ulkomaille-paluu-suomeen

"Suomessa edellytetään tietynpituista asumiskautta vanhempainpäivärahojen ja kansaneläkkeen saamiseksi."
Why did you stop reading? ” Jos muutat Suomeen toisesta EU- tai Eta-maasta tai Sveitsistä, pystyt yleensä hyödyntämään näissä maissa täytettyjä vakuutuskausia odotusajan täyttämiseen.”
It says "pystyt yleensä hyödyntämään..". I wonder why they have the word yleensä there. Could it be joskus et pysty?
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betelgeuse
Posts: 4353
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: KELA & moving abroad after getting the citizenship

Post by betelgeuse » Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:47 pm

browndude wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:18 pm
betelgeuse wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:02 pm

Why did you stop reading? ” Jos muutat Suomeen toisesta EU- tai Eta-maasta tai Sveitsistä, pystyt yleensä hyödyntämään näissä maissa täytettyjä vakuutuskausia odotusajan täyttämiseen.”
It says "pystyt yleensä hyödyntämään..". I wonder why they have the word yleensä there. Could it be joskus et pysty?
Yes.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content ... 3-20190731

(Article 6)


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