Building permit on a piece of land

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Ton W
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Building permit on a piece of land

Post by Ton W » Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:11 pm

Hi all,

I got a little question and hope that one of you here has an answer for it.
My wife and me are planning to buy a nice piece of land to build out future house on. The land is from a private owner and doesn't have yet a building permit on it. We are planning to start building the earliest in 2 or 3 years. To make sure when the time is there to start building that we are allowed to build on it it needs a building permit. We went to the county and where told that we need to apply for a building permit with every information needed (even the housing plan / blueprints). Because it is still so far that we start to build we don't know exactly what will be there (ofcourse in our heads we know what we want but the detailes are still open :) ) and asking offers from companies is to early i guess (prices can change in 2 , 3 years time).
We called some house package companies to ask for the costs of blueprints and also they where surprised that we already have to apply the official building permit so much earlier in advance.

Are we missing something or is there another way to have a building permit (without blueprints of the house) on it without paying large amounts (3000-5000 Euros) for blueprints and other costs?

Hope someone can advice us in this issue.



Building permit on a piece of land

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ajl
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Re: Building permit on a piece of land

Post by ajl » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:23 pm

Are you asking if the lot is buildable? Because what would a permit without plans actually mean?
You will need building plans and other info before you can get the real permit(s) (which still will
cost as much or more in the future), so why not apply when you have the required info?
Then those pesky questions about following codes, getting plans changed
to follow existing codes and other stuff follows from that.
moving is in the bad <-> crazy continuum


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Ton W
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Re: Building permit on a piece of land

Post by Ton W » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:42 pm

I know the land needs a permit but I was wondering if there is some kind of permit which has an open houseplan on it with open issues. For example we know about the size of the house but we also have to give already the kind of clean water system, waste water system etc etc. Those things can change in a few years. We know globally what we want in those things but changing the permit in a few years with extra costs is something we are not waiting for or want atleast to prevent as much as possible.


ajl
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Re: Building permit on a piece of land

Post by ajl » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:06 pm

So you want something that isn't really a permit, since aren't the permits the 'go ahead' to build?
A permit with open issues can't mean you have any permission, no? The idea of an open ended
application sounds cool, but expensive, like it shouldn't save any money over actually getting
the final permit since it implies extra reviews for the permit people.
moving is in the bad <-> crazy continuum


DMC
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Re: Building permit on a piece of land

Post by DMC » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:38 pm

ajl wrote:So you want something that isn't really a permit, since aren't the permits the 'go ahead' to build?
A permit with open issues can't mean you have any permission, no?
Such a permit means that it is agreed in principle that it is possible to build on the land, subject to approval of the final plans. This means you can buy/sell a plot as building land, rather than having to gamble on whether building will be allowed there. In the UK this is called outline planning permission but I don't know what the name is here. I have seen it stated that a plot for sale can have X sq metres built on it, which would seem to be tied into this process. I don't know how that figure is set.


ajl
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Re: Building permit on a piece of land

Post by ajl » Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:23 pm

well, that UK rule seems sweet, how long does one have to finalize plans?

Near my former residence there are no such guarantees of building permits unless one actually has the permit,
and the rules have been changing so much, one year's buildable lot is not buildable the following year. The
enviromental surveys required to determine if one can build can cost more than 10-20K USD, so that is not a minor issue.

The OP didn't sound worried about it being a buildable lot, per se, maybe just a cheaper lock in option. I don't
see how open ended issues can make any permits cheaper overall. I just assume that the taxes/permits will
always take more money than one wants to part with, and the costs compared to building the structure are
not insignifact either. Codes restrict building sizes, so just listing the allowed upper limit may not imply any
permission.
moving is in the bad <-> crazy continuum


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mrjimsfc
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Re: Building permit on a piece of land

Post by mrjimsfc » Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:29 pm

It sounds more like a "zoning" issue. In many areas where city/county/municipal goverments have planned for future development, the different areas are "zoned" for residential (small and/or large lots), agricultural (very large lots), manufacturing/industrial, comercial and several other "zones". Is the lot in your area "zoned" for residential housing on the size lot you own? If not, then you have to get a "variance" from the apropriate agency/agencies so you can build a house where they had planned for something else. If the area is zoned for residential housing then there may also be "protective covenants" that state that the house must be within certain size, type and location (on the lot) parameters. That's why they would ask for blueprints.
(And you thought this would be simple? :wink: )
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Upphew
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Re: Building permit on a piece of land

Post by Upphew » Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:40 pm

1) If the plot is on a site with asemakaava(zoning plan) and that plan is residential... then you are allowed to build.
2) If there is not zoning plan or zoning plan is not residential then you need to apply for suunnittelutarveratkaisu or poikkeamispäätös.

In 1) you know you can build, in 2) you don't need blueprints for the house, just asemapiirros. Also in 1st case, you know how much (in m2) you can build, in 2nd case you seek permission to build certain amount (m2) so in latter case you should apply for "enough" (but don't overdo it).
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DMC
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Re: Building permit on a piece of land

Post by DMC » Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:24 pm

ajl wrote:well, that UK rule seems sweet, how long does one have to finalize plans?
Normally you have to submit detailed plans for approval within 3 years, or the outline planning permission expires.


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Ton W
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Re: Building permit on a piece of land

Post by Ton W » Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:36 pm

mrjimsfc wrote:Is the lot in your area "zoned" for residential housing on the size lot you own?
The plot of land what we are planning to buy is somewhere in the middle of nowhere which is forestland. There are a few neighbours who are building at this moment (we also need their signatures to have approval for the permit).
Upphew wrote:In 1) you know you can build, in 2) you don't need blueprints for the house, just asemapiirros. Also in 1st case, you know how much (in m2) you can build, in 2nd case you seek permission to build certain amount (m2) so in latter case you should apply for "enough" (but don't overdo it).
So if I am correct we don't need any blueprints but an asemapiiros (site plan) which says how may square meters we are planning to build would be enough?
mrjimsfc wrote:(And you thought this would be simple? :wink: )
No, we know it will take some work but probably it will be worth it in the end :D


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Mook
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Re: Building permit on a piece of land

Post by Mook » Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:42 pm

asemakaava normally gives a number (ratio) that dictatates the maximim land->house size e.g. if it's 0.4 and you have 1000m2 of land, your home can be up to 400m2.
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Pursuivant
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Re: Building permit on a piece of land

Post by Pursuivant » Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:01 pm

Ton W wrote: The plot of land what we are planning to buy is somewhere in the middle of nowhere which is forestland. There are a few neighbours who are building at this moment (we also need their signatures to have approval for the permit).
OK, so thats unzoned with special permit area, so basically you just go to a neighbor and ask what all papers and "poikkeuslupa" they submitted. Basically in some areas you need to have some old outhouse so you get a "renovation" permit. Virgin land newbuilds are a bit dodgy especially if theres no public service so your water well and seppo tank need to be over the top.
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Upphew
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Re: Building permit on a piece of land

Post by Upphew » Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:05 pm

Ton W wrote:The plot of land what we are planning to buy is somewhere in the middle of nowhere which is forestland. There are a few neighbours who are building at this moment (we also need their signatures to have approval for the permit).
Upphew wrote:In 1) you know you can build, in 2) you don't need blueprints for the house, just asemapiirros. Also in 1st case, you know how much (in m2) you can build, in 2nd case you seek permission to build certain amount (m2) so in latter case you should apply for "enough" (but don't overdo it).
So if I am correct we don't need any blueprints but an asemapiiros (site plan) which says how may square meters we are planning to build would be enough
Correct. Possibly some hunch about how to handle sewage. Ask from your possible future neighbours! They seem to have found a way to build there, also they might have hints about builders :)
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Upphew
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Re: Building permit on a piece of land

Post by Upphew » Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:08 pm

Pursuivant wrote:OK, so thats unzoned with special permit area, so basically you just go to a neighbor and ask what all papers and "poikkeuslupa" they submitted. Basically in some areas you need to have some old outhouse so you get a "renovation" permit. Virgin land newbuilds are a bit dodgy especially if theres no public service so your water well and seppo tank need to be over the top.
And if there starts to be enough population at certain radius, it might make muncipality to do things (schools, roads, zoning etc.) which tend to cost money, which tend to stop any permits... so neighbours building is mixed blessing.
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LisaMary
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Re: Building permit on a piece of land

Post by LisaMary » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:46 pm

Hi Ton,

It's 9 years later, so I'm curious: How did it all go?
Did you get the building permit? Did you need signatures from neighbours?


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