Finnish citizenship and social support issue.

madsum · Post by **madsum** » Fri May 25, 2012 1:02 pm

Hello,

I want to know some information regarding citizenship application and any possible negative effect.

Recently I passed yki testi and planning to apply for citizenship. Mean while my financial situation is very bad. So I'm going to apply some financial support from social.

I was working in a high salary around 3000€ including tax for 6 years (since 2005). So I had to pay high tax either. But I lost that job. Now I have only a fixed term job contact in other place and the salary is very low only 800€. I also receive unemployment benefit from IAET-kassa about 1200€ per month.

Recently I had to pay quite many pending bills. Somebody suggest me to apply for social support.

I heard few rumor about asking social support. There is a strong negative effect on foreigner who wish to apply for Finnish citizenship. Those who get social support can't apply for citizenship or hardly get citizenship.

That's why I Hastie to apply for citizenship and apply for social support.

Could you guess suggest me what should I do in this situation? Thanks in advance!

**Sponsor:**

visuvesi2009 · Post by **visuvesi2009** » Fri May 25, 2012 1:26 pm

If you are receiving €2000 a month already I doubt they would give you any more

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Fri May 25, 2012 1:35 pm

Collecting social support is not a hindrance for getting citizenship. Not paying your taxes, fines or other "public bills" is.

(I also doubt you would get any "toimeentulotuki" with that income, but that is a separate issue)

madsum · Post by **madsum** » Fri May 25, 2012 3:40 pm

Hi Rip,

I don't much about Finnish laws or rules. But in my opinion immigration should check all foreigners background before they give citizenship. A person who is jobless or less tax payer is kind of burden for Finland.

At least I know few people who fulfill all requirements to apply for citizenship. But they don't have a nice job. So they are waiting for a job before they apply.

How come social help seeker won't be an issue? Are you giving ur opinion based of solid knowledge?

ablo · Post by **ablo** » Sat May 26, 2012 9:04 am

I am not clear of your point.
Are u a permanent residence ? If so, then consider the worst case. Kela have to provide you the support untill you get a job. It does not matter if u are a citizen or not. Then how the system will be benifited by not giving you the citizenship? Because being a citizen does not add any extra social support.

madsum · Post by **madsum** » Sat May 26, 2012 11:30 am

Yes, I'm permanent residence. I'm not talking about Kela support. It's social support.

I'm not eligible for any Kela support at his moment. I have my own apartment, member of IAET-kassa. So the only way to get some financial support is the social office.

As far as I know permanent residence permit could be revoked. But citizenship isn't. That's the main difference in my view point.

Kutittaa · Post by **Kutittaa** » Sat May 26, 2012 1:33 pm

madsum wrote:Yes, I'm permanent residence. I'm not talking about Kela support. It's social support.

What's the difference?

madsum · Post by **madsum** » Sat May 26, 2012 2:46 pm

KELA : http://www.kela.fi/in/internet/suomi.nsf?Open
social office for espoo: http://www.espoo.fi/fiFI/Sosiaali_ja_te ... o_Le(6247)

social office is different every city.

StellaS · Post by **StellaS** » Sun May 27, 2012 12:04 pm

madsum wrote:KELA : http://www.kela.fi/in/internet/suomi.nsf?Open
social office for espoo: http://www.espoo.fi/fiFI/Sosiaali_ja_te ... o_Le(6247)

social office is different every city.

It's still KELA money, there's no difference (your link is broken, btw). Except in Espoo you can get a loan (sosiaalinen luotto), which you have to pay back.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Sun May 27, 2012 2:17 pm

StellaS wrote:
madsum wrote:KELA : http://www.kela.fi/in/internet/suomi.nsf?Open
social office for espoo: http://www.espoo.fi/fiFI/Sosiaali_ja_te ... o_Le(6247)

social office is different every city.
It's still KELA money, there's no difference.

No, it is not KELA money (= money from the central goverment).

Kutittaa · Post by **Kutittaa** » Mon May 28, 2012 12:29 pm

But 'Kela money' is still 'taxpayers money' not 'the government's money' thus it's the same thing

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Mon May 28, 2012 1:23 pm

Kutittaa wrote:But 'Kela money' is still 'taxpayers money' not 'the government's money' thus it's the same thing

Depends on the point of view. From point of view of city vs. state finances it does matter, for public finances as a whole the difference does not matter, and finally regarding citizenship (the original question) neither matters.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Mon May 28, 2012 3:10 pm

The law:

Kansalaistamisen yleiset edellytykset

Ulkomaalaiselle myönnetään hakemuksesta Suomen kansalaisuus, jos hakemusta ratkaistaessa:

---
5) hän pystyy luotettavasti selvittämään, miten saa toimeentulonsa; ja

and how it is supposed to be read:

Pykälän 1 momentin 5 kohdan mukaan hakijalta edellytettäisiin, että hän
pystyisi luotettavasti selvittämään, millä tavoin hän saa toimeentulonsa.
Kyse olisi uudesta säännöksestä. Ehdotuksen mukaan hakijalta ei enää
edellytettäisi, että hänen ja hänen perheensä toimeentulo katsottaisiin
turvatuksi [...]. Ehdotuksen mukaan esimerkiksi
pelkän toimeentulotuen varassa eläminen ei estäisi eikä edes vaikeuttaisi
kansalaisuuden saamista. Sen sijaan edellytettäisiin tiedon saamista hakijan
toimeentulolähteestä. Toimeentulolähteen selvittäminen olisi tärkeää, jotta
pystyttäisiin arvioimaan, täyttääkö hakija 1 momentin muut edellytykset.
Jos esimerkiksi hakija saisi toimeentulonsa lainvastaisen toiminnan
perusteella, hän ei täyttäisi nuhteettomuusedellytystä. Toimeentulolähteen
selvittäminen olisi tärkeää myös asumisajan täyttymisen selvittämisen
kannalta.

( http://www.eduskunta.fi/triphome/bin/ak ... E+235/2002 )

Why did we need a second thread for this?

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