Discrimination

[humax]

The Silminnäkijä (Eyewitness) TV programme



http://yle.fi/uutiset/yle_uncovers_disc ... es/6885954

[Dalmatinac]

so what ?

[Flossy1978]

Bla bla bla....

Three people.

There are plenty of companies employing 'minorities' in Finland. I know of one company who even converted a room into a prayer room for the high amount of Somalian Muslims they have. So they could pray on their breaks. Yeah.... Where's the news headline about a company doing something they didn't have to do, in order to accomodate foreigners they've employed? t's not in any law they had to do it. NOWHERE.

No one ever focuses on any good done to help these minorities. Just crap.

Again... Do you see any minorities being dragged around by pickups and using 'blacks' and 'whites' toilets, like what use to go on in America? Now you want to talk discrimination and racism.... There was the real thing. And what is now going on South Africa against the whites. Being murdered and farms destroyed because the 'blacks' are being encouraged by their own govenment to act in such a barbaric manner.

I am bored with all this discrimination, racism crap. It goes both ways.

A simple fact is, Finns will trust their own kind over any foreigner, anyday. Just as would any other country choose their own kind over a foreigner. It's a fact of life. Which is their right to.

Get over it.

[Karhunkoski]

Yle uncovers discrimination in job market and nightclub queues

And in today's other news, man invents the wheel.

Seriously, it's all been done before. This sort of "investigation" hits the news every couple of years in Finland and you could get the same result in most countries. The "journalists" know the result before they even start. I wouldn't doubt that they chose the nightclub to guarantee the result. Sort of like if someone was trying to prove anti-white discrimination in the USA, they would try to get a honkey into a low-end club in Harlem.

Anyone who looks or sounds different runs the risk of facing discrimination, anywhere in the world. Discrimination even exists within countries' own borders. I've known recruiters in London who would never consider giving a job to a "Northern B4stard" or a Geordie or a Scouser.

Discrimination is of course horrible and unfair, but the fact that it exists isn't "news". Did the YLE results honestly come as a shock to anyone on this board? No, of course they didn't. Best thing is to be aware, make street-wise choices and keep safe.

[Pursuivant]

"Can I borrow your phone?" Anyone giving theirs should have been arrested for stupidity...

[Upphew]

"Can I borrow your phone?" Anyone giving theirs should have been arrested for stupidity...

But racism!

[Liam1]

Discrimination is always sensitive.

The big question to me is when can you use your own experience or general stats to make your own choice. E.g. If the nightclub found that there were more fights / less revenue from one group of people, shouldn't they be free to decide not to let in? I know from a life of refused entry that, 3 blokes going in alone to a nightclub have less success than if they were with their girlfriends. Does that mean that Finns hate single people? There's law against sex discrimaination: re-run the nighclub test with 5 blokes in a group vs 5 girls. Nightclub owner thinks less trouble with girls, men in club will behave and throw their cash around, so let the girl group in. Is he a businessman or breaking the law?


Ditto flat hunt even job hunt - if the landlord has had more trouble or has heard problems when he meets his other landlord buddies, with one type of people, is he really not allowed to use this?

Imagine if Tulli didn't profile who they stopped so searched the 80 year old couple coming back from their golden Anniversary trip from S America, while waving past all the shifty looking single guys (of any race!) with 48hr return tickets and massive suitcases....

[gfunho]

There's law against sex discrimaination: re-run the nighclub test with 5 blokes in a group vs 5 girls. Nightclub owner thinks less trouble with girls, men in club will behave and throw their cash around, so let the girl group in. Is he a businessman or breaking the law?

Breaking the law

Imagine if Tulli didn't profile who they stopped so searched the 80 year old couple coming back from their golden Anniversary trip from S America, while waving past all the shifty looking single guys (of any race!) with 48hr return tickets and massive suitcases....

This profiling is not based on the single-ness or the age. It is based on size of luggage compared with time of stay. Profiling can have some discrimination, but I would hope that the same 80 y.o. couple that stays in south america 48 hours and brings 50kg. luggage would be searched, while the couple of single men that has been 15 days in the beach in Cancun with a noticeable tanned/red skin and a suitcase full of swiming suits, tequila, ponchos and sarapes is not.

[suomynona.yllatot]

Some comments.

if the landlord has had more trouble or has heard problems when he meets his other landlord buddies, with one type of people, is he really not allowed to use this?

Visited a friendly family north, neighbour comes along, says, Down there, meaning Helsinki area, have lots of coloured people, and goes on to say how they are ruining the country, people turning to crimes, etc. etc. etc. My host's daughter, an outspoken woman, simply asked the neighbour, how many have you personally seen, encountered, or even known people in distant circles that have encountered such difficulties. Turns the guy red! Nuff said!

if Tulli didn't profile who they stopped so searched the 80 year old couple coming back from their golden Anniversary trip from S America, while waving past all the shifty looking single guys (of any race!) with 48hr return tickets and massive suitcases....

Seriously? Did you give this some thought? I am sorry, but I disagree! I believe the more accurate "sense of this profiling" would be if two "80-year-old couples return from their anniversary trips to S America", and Tulli were to stop only the dark-skinned couple!!! That's what the whole thing has been about. Skin-colored racism.

This sort of "investigation" hits the news every couple of years in Finland and you could get the same result in most countries. The "journalists" know the result before they even start

And still no change in people's attitudes? How about seeing that the world still works on skin colours!

going on South Africa against the whites. Being murdered and farms destroyed because the 'blacks' are being encouraged by their own govenment to act in such a barbaric manner

South Africa is a different story! Having read the history, it is more about retaliation, revenge! And no, I am neither condoning it not justifying it. In fact, it is disgusting!

more fights / less revenue from one group of people

That is quite a mean assumption. I have seen less fights being started or even being indulged by the "coloured", than the natives. I am not part of the bar/nightclub scene now, I have been in the past!

Do you see any minorities being dragged around by pickups and using 'blacks' and 'whites' toilets, like what use to go on in America

Seriously, perhaps, the poster doesn''t mean it, but almost sounds like the poster supports the acts of the nightclub owners, and the employers? Or was there an escape from the Americas because of the increasing coloured population? To a land of the blondes, only to realise that coloured people exist here too?

re-run the nighclub test with 5 blokes in a group vs 5 girls.

As much as I hate saying this, I need to get the view across, 5 girls, coloured = exotic meat/flesh; 5 guys = more competition! You get the drift?

[rinso]

Most of the decisions in the test were made subjective. ("who do I like the most?") Race, sex, age, religion end so on are factors that influence the subjective opinion.
It is not full blown racism but more a matter of being more comfortable in your own group.
Off course some of the examples were legally racism. But again there is a difference between being a racist and being not completely neutral.

I lived for many years above a Portuguese family. The grandmother did the cooking and ventilated into the hallway. All the time the smell of weird spices, not always bad, but sometimes I had to flee to a restaurant because of the smell. They were nice people and after they moved I kept in contact. But I would strongly protest against renting the flat to another "exotic" family. Does that make me a racist or somebody who tries to protect his comfort zone?

[Liam1]

if the landlord has had more trouble or has heard problems when he meets his other landlord buddies, with one type of people, is he really not allowed to use this?

Visited a friendly family north, neighbour comes along, says, Down there, meaning Helsinki area, have lots of coloured people, and goes on to say how they are ruining the country, people turning to crimes, etc. etc. etc. My host's daughter, an outspoken woman, simply asked the neighbour, how many have you personally seen, encountered, or even known people in distant circles that have encountered such difficulties. Turns the guy red! Nuff said!

Totally non sequiter - "I wrote if the landlord or some of his landlord buddies" NOT the landlord talking to a prejudiced moron. My whole point was can you use bad personal experience or that of others you trust to make decisions without being called prejudiced?

if Tulli didn't profile who they stopped so searched the 80 year old couple coming back from their golden Anniversary trip from S America, while waving past all the shifty looking single guys (of any race!) with 48hr return tickets and massive suitcases....

Seriously? Did you give this some thought? I am sorry, but I disagree! I believe the more accurate "sense of this profiling" would be if two "80-year-old couples return from their anniversary trips to S America", and Tulli were to stop only the dark-skinned couple!!! That's what the whole thing has been about. Skin-colored racism.

NO again - that is what YOU want this post to be about - I merely stated the obvious that if someone is more likely to be carrying drugs they should be targetted and this could be seen as discrimination - I see it as common sense. Indeed even the YLE test is not purely about skin colour as they have a white Russian in the test. I agree with the other post that if the 80 year old couple had been in Columbia 2 days they should be stopped. But I would also say if everyone had identical bags with identical tickets and Tulli had stats to say that in the past 80% of smugglers were Swedish speaking Finns living in Grankulla, that is who they should stop - none of this idiocy of stopping every tenth peson to avoid being labelled Grankullerist (note I continue to use silly examples to avoid this being simply about skin colour)

The rest of your post also seems to be arguing different things to me. I talk only about general discrimination not racism, because as other posters have stated it is too lazy / easy to decide that racism is the underlying problem. Hence my examples that show lots of people get turned away from nightclubs, but that isn't racism, singleism or any ism. When you said I was mean, I was also careful to take presumptions of race out of it - I underline my quote-

E.g. If the nightclub found that there were more fights / less revenue from one group of people

it could be students that wear berets and sip water all night or tanked up Finnish conscription soldiers on weekend pass

I really oppose racism as well as other forms of discrimination, but I also dislike the way that the accusation can be twisted, because that serves to undermine the cause of equality. I also think that political correctness cannot get in the way of safety - If someone is 10 times more likely to commit a crime, he should have 10 times greater chance of being stopped. In working this out any variables including race, gender, age, socio economic background should be permissable. This works in all directions, so if someone is suspected to have a loaded elk hunting rifle and in a city centre, I'd take down the 50 year old Finn not the 16 year old Somalian.

[Liam1]

Liam1 wrote:
There's law against sex discrimaination: re-run the nighclub test with 5 blokes in a group vs 5 girls. Nightclub owner thinks less trouble with girls, men in club will behave and throw their cash around, so let the girl group in. Is he a businessman or breaking the law?

Breaking the law

I assume you are also in the (rather large) club of men frozen to death and refused entry. Nightclub days are over now but I wonder if the Doorman would have seen sense if I'd informed him of his crime or would he and his mates have beaten me up for being mouthy

[Liam1]

if someone is suspected to have a loaded elk hunting rifle and in a city centre, I'd take down the 50 year old Finn not the 16 year old Somalian.

Oh and when I say I'd take down, I mean I'd ask someone else to take down as I'm a weedy middle aged British guy

[enkeligod]

I have being a victim of discrimination and racist comment from a night club here in helsinki, good a thing my wife a Finn was close to me and she witnessed it and also responded immediately. Guys it is shameful we should not look at it low it is not an hidden thing mostly the bouncers do take pride in doing it. A club or bar is a Service business and a place of socializing open to make revenues in returns and customers should be given excellent service and not to be treated discriminately and leave the place with discontent. We know the rules to be there in the club or the bars and do have the money also to spend for a drink or two.

The journalist most have heard several comments about the clubbing discrimination that was why they spent time and resources to uncover it, our duty is to see our such things does not manifest in our society irrespective of our colour skin or language differences. Humans are humans and should be treated equally!

[rinso]

Humans are humans and should be treated equally!

Problem is not all humans behave in the same way.
If a significant part of a group behaves "different", the whole group will be associated with it.
The "discrimination" is a response to the unwanted behavior of (part of) the group. Skin colour is an identifier but often not the source of the discrimination.