How to sell a car in finland (and it's right-hand drive...)

peroxisome · Post by **peroxisome** » Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:50 am

hi there
can anyone give some advice of the nuts and bolts of selling a car in Finland ?

I have a UK right-hand drive car which i imported from the UK 5 years ago, and i am aiming to sell it here (e.g. using nettiautio). Since it is right-hand drive, i will likely have to give a substantial discount on the price you would expect from a left-hand drive car.

what do i have to do when i am selling ? do i need to see id (what sort) from the buyer ? i found a deed of sale form on Trafi, but how do i register that ? Do i have to get the money payment cleared before i sign the deed of sale form ? And finally, you then have to fill in the registration forms...
i think i have the process (deeds of sale, registration documents), but i am confused about when the money changes hands, and how you ensure for example that the buyer has registered the transfer.

all comments gratefully received.

david bell

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Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:09 am

peroxisome wrote:hi there
can anyone give some advice of the nuts and bolts of selling a car in Finland ?

I have a UK right-hand drive car which i imported from the UK 5 years ago, and i am aiming to sell it here (e.g. using nettiautio). Since it is right-hand drive, i will likely have to give a substantial discount on the price you would expect from a left-hand drive car.

what do i have to do when i am selling ? do i need to see id (what sort) from the buyer ? i found a deed of sale form on Trafi, but how do i register that ? Do i have to get the money payment cleared before i sign the deed of sale form ? And finally, you then have to fill in the registration forms...
i think i have the process (deeds of sale, registration documents), but i am confused about when the money changes hands, and how you ensure for example that the buyer has registered the transfer.

all comments gratefully received.

david bell

Cash is king. Or if you can see the money in your account. You don't have to register the deed of sale if the buyer registers the car into his/her name within 7 days. If they don't then you can march into katsastus or your insurance company to register the sale (to get rid of tax liabilities). You can check if the car has been registered to someone else by using sms services or you know it is still in your name, if you get tax bill.

peroxisome · Post by **peroxisome** » Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:34 am

thanks upphew- a prompt reply.

I think i would be loath to accept a cash payment; even at 50% of the value i see for equivalent left-hand drive cars on nettiauto, i don't want to be walking around with 7k in my pocket, or spending the time counting out the 7k in small denomination bills in the presence of the buyer.

But if i can ask, what is the etiquette ? Do you sign the deed of sale, and the buyer then arranges for the cash to be transferred ? Do you then only transfer the registration papers when you have the money ?
alternatively, do you only sign the deed of sale when you have the money in your account ? That's fine for me, but i would guess it is a bit more dangerous for the buyer.

thanks
david

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:55 am

peroxisome wrote:I think i would be loath to accept a cash payment; even at 50% of the value i see for equivalent left-hand drive cars on nettiauto, i don't want to be walking around with 7k in my pocket, or spending the time counting out the 7k in small denomination bills in the presence of the buyer.

How fast you count?

peroxisome wrote:But if i can ask, what is the etiquette ? Do you sign the deed of sale, and the buyer then arranges for the cash to be transferred ? Do you then only transfer the registration papers when you have the money ?
alternatively, do you only sign the deed of sale when you have the money in your account ? That's fine for me, but i would guess it is a bit more dangerous for the buyer.

If I was selling, I wouldn't give the car nor the papers before i had the cash in my hand or in my bank account. Do note, that banks can sit on the money for day or two if you transfer from one bank to another.

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:12 pm

You can get a cashiers checque from the bank. I've bought a car in cash. But an online transfer would be the most convenient. Or you go to the bank, he makes a giro transfer there and then ( if you have the same bank ). Then you sign the "part 2" and you make the "transfer document" iin two copies. Basically as a "bill of sales" for both parties as if something happens you have no "proof" of selling the car and not being liable for parking tickets etc.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:22 pm

roger_roger wrote: Its not only rare but I guess impossible to hold that bill.

You can get them from banks (of course). (nowadays you should probably request a few days in advance to get a few thousand euros or more in cash, so might as well mention the desired denomination).

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:44 pm

roger_roger wrote:
Rip wrote:
You can get them from banks (of course).
No you don't.... I have asked in 4-5 Nordea branches, they said they don't have. The highest they could give was 200.

They can't get or they didn't have? Big difference. You don't get 10k cash either without giving word beforehand. Might as well ask for big notes. I'd do it just to flip a bird to cops who would like to get rid of both 500€ and 200€ bills.

Ligence · Post by **Ligence** » Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:30 pm

When I bought a car in France, the seller asked for cash payment in 100 € bills. He said he had actually been given a fake 500 € bill from his bank once, and that as it's fairly common knowledge the higher-value bills are the most counterfeited, he tries to avoid them.

foca · Post by **foca** » Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:22 pm

Upphew wrote:
peroxisome wrote:I think i would be loath to accept a cash payment; even at 50% of the value i see for equivalent left-hand drive cars on nettiauto, i don't want to be walking around with 7k in my pocket, or spending the time counting out the 7k in small denomination bills in the presence of the buyer.

How fast you count?

You only get those normally from Russians ... But if you have been watching TV recently it might not be the case anymore...

FinnGuyHelsinki · Post by **FinnGuyHelsinki** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:03 am

Personally I'd arrange a meeting in a bank to close the sale. Either at the buyer's (payment by wire transfer) or the sellers (payment by other means), that way the seller can be sure that the payment has been made or have the cash/check verified before turning over the ownership of the car. Also, then there's a credible witness (the bank teller) of the whole deed.

peroxisome · Post by **peroxisome** » Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:04 pm

well, i am surprised. The first offer i have received is for cash payment.

at the moment, i do not know if the "cash" is shorthand for a single payment, by cash or bank transfer or whatever.

However, on the basis that he really means cash, i am a bit cautious. I have no intention of wandering around with lots of thousands of euros, or getting counterfeit notes.

i presume the request for cash from the buyer's side is so that it isn't seen by the (tax/ bank) authorities ? If so, i am not sure he would accept a wire transfer or bank transfer.

i guess the good advice is from the FinnGuyHelsinki, who suggests a meeting in the bank. The bank can then accept a deposit in my account.

is there any possibility that a bank transfer can be 'undone' ? is that as good as cash ?

many thanks
david

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:21 pm

Meet, go to your bank, deposit the cash, once its in, sign the papers...

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Thu Jan 01, 2015 11:36 pm

peroxisome wrote:is there any possibility that a bank transfer can be 'undone' ? is that as good as cash ?

Good as cash. Can be undone with court order.

saika1984 · Post by **saika1984** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 10:32 am

Wire transfer is hard to undo, at least for domestic transactions. Cross-border transfer might be a different story.

Still meeting in the bank is the easiest way, especially if the bank also has an insurance company where the buyer intends to buy car insurance from: you can verify the money is not counterfeit if in notes and/or order transfer, you have witness, and most importantly you can finalize the whole deal in only one meeting since the insurance company can do the ownership registration.

Keep in mind that both parties bear risks in such deal (in my opinion the buyer bears higher risk since money is money but there can be so many unclear things about the car), so nobody wants to do his/her part of duty and get from the counterparty later. In this sense such deals are relatively safe in Finland. Of course the buyer should still verify the car's condition and legitimacy before agreeing the deal. But OP is the seller so definitely much less to worry about.

peroxisome · Post by **peroxisome** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 12:05 pm

thanks for all your advice. it's been an interesting ride !

i found the deed of sale on this site (http://www.suomi.fi/suomifi/english/ser ... index.html).

the first potential buyer offered cash, and when i said i would only do this in a bank, announced he had a bought a car somewhere else.

the next buyer transferred cash, and since we have the same bank, i could see that happening within five minutes. Hence i could sign the deeds and registration form. So all well.

as for selling a right hand-drive car, you can do it. As it happens the final price in finland isn't so very different from what you would get in the UK (i bought it in the UK), but is is about half what you would get here if you were selling it, as judged by the sale prices on nettiauto.com

david

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