Living in Finland as a foreigner

[Oho]

Common sense and observation in everyday life in other matters

If you are only interested in statistics I can prove statistically that more than 60-70 % females in Finland have been raped at least once in their lives and 60/70 % Finnish men have raped at least one female in their lives. Don't be stuck in numbers only , use your common sense as well .

So I take it no.....

Incidentally those studies more less have it that pretty much every woman that has given birth, well everyone who used the natures method to conceive, has been raped at least once...

And even then no.... The studies are victim studies on sexual harassment not rape per se and having a good look at gorgeous pair of knockers, as if you could help it, qualifies. Whats even more to the point is that its not the act of looking that makes it harassment its the undesirability of the person who looks. But then again your comments pretty much qualify you as a racist, so welcome to the club.

[Marsh04]

I am talking about the normal definition of a rape i.e. sex without consent.

[Holland]

please keep it nice, I'd rather see proper arguments being made rather than this turning into a "you're racist", "you're a hypocrite" kind of debate.

But indeed it's true statistics aren't dead on accurate. Nevertheless 77% (majority) committed by a minority. It's hard to blame this on girl not reporting it because he was a Swede.

And like you said, using common sense is the best statistic. There is a considerable difference in attitude towards Swedish women when one is interviewing 100 Swedish males and 100 Muslim males. Everyone knows but for some reason no one dares to say it.

Sucks for the group of Muslims who do integrate well and are ethnicity considered Swedes or Finns, but are still looked suspiciously upon. Whether this is the fault of people whom have become afraid, or the Muslim population that ruins it for the nice Muslim population is an other interesting point of discussion.

I myself treat every person I meet the same way, they can only ruin it by their own actions. Nevertheless I'll likely check my pockets more often when a person of south Mediterranean race bumps into me than a Caucasian. Purely because the chance is higher of me being pick pocketed when the race is foreign. It's automatised. I don't like thinking that way, but experience resulted in me doing so. The bumping person isn't affected by it so it does no harm to them, otherwise I wouldn't. Heck, I'm quite sure a lot of Finns would likely "check" after a bump in with me, and frankly I can't blame them. It doesn't bother me though, as soon as I actually meet a person they will find me friendly soon enough, or not.

[AldenG]

If the bumper is a pro, they'll pass what they took to an accomplice almost in the same motion. When you stop them, they'll be clean.

[Upphew]

foreigners (mostly arabs, turks, etc) are responsible for a lot of rapes

I don’t believe that. Media has a role to play here. I hope the use of “lots” does NOT imply majority. As sick as the crime is, if an assumed exaggerated 20% rapes were committed by foreigners, who commits the other 80%? Or is that allowed and/or not to be counted?

28% of the suspects were 1st generation immigrants.
http://www.optula.om.fi/material/attach ... m_2014.pdf

[Oho]

please keep it nice, I'd rather see proper arguments being made rather than this turning into a "you're racist", "you're a hypocrite" kind of debate.

Well it was made in jest, but really try replacing 'Finnish' with pretty much any other ethnicity and you might see what I intended, actually you might end up in jail for hate speech if you said it in public.

Really common sense and everyday observations really do not support the idea that rape is so prevalent in Finland that most Finnish men have committed it. It should somehow show in the way women dress and behave in public, but no, they still go jogging alone in artificial light on quiet trails, they still frequent bars alone or in small groups in rather sparing clothing and actually may end up inviting a guy for drink. That really does not ring a bell. If rape was as prevalent as claimed pretty much every woman should have a number of victims in her social circles and while many would bottle it up quite a few would have to talk to people in their confidence about a rather traumatic experience which should reflect on the way women behave. Really more or less the only sexual harassment I have been party to is being chased out of men's bathroom in a bar after women have commandeered it due to massive queue to ladies room. Come to think of it women have quite recently been voicing their concerns about walking through quiet dimly lit parks in night, wonder why that is.

[Piet]

foreigners (mostly arabs, turks, etc) are responsible for a lot of rapes

I don’t believe that. Media has a role to play here. I hope the use of “lots” does NOT imply majority. As sick as the crime is, if an assumed exaggerated 20% rapes were committed by foreigners, who commits the other 80%? Or is that allowed and/or not to be counted?

28% of the suspects were 1st generation immigrants.
http://www.optula.om.fi/material/attach ... m_2014.pdf

Please mention the context,

The survey notes that overall the differences are kept within the group, that means that there is more rape but also in the same foreigner group more rape victims. In other words, the investigation notes that the bigger amount of crimes coincides with the bigger amount of victims, therefore one could say that the immigrants investigated, keep the crime inside their own group. Also striking is the percentage of Swedish born Finnish speakers is higher than for example the percentage of Russians, North Americans, or other EU-citizens related to this crime.

This also could mean that Finns by nature are less eager to report such a crime within their own community (like rape within marriage is only forbidden in Finland since 1994)

Another troubling fact:

A 2010 Euro-barometer survey on European attitudes on violence against women showed that victim blaming attitudes are much more common in Finland than in other countries: 74% of Finns blamed "the provocative behaviour of women" for violence against women, much higher than in other countries (for instance many countries that are popularly believed to be among the most patriarchal of Europe were significantly less likely to agree with that assertion: only 33% in Spain, 46% in Ireland, 47% in Italy).

(see oho' comment)

Source: http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/arch ... 344_en.pdf



This all makes the whole statement in the post by upphew a bit coloured and intended to misuse a highly volatile issue to whip up sentiment. Like most of his other posts..

Just saying..

[Oho]

While rape is violence is not rape.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_rape

Only in 1994, three years before Germany and eight before Switzerland, thus if not among the first a fairly early adopter of legislation. Anyway at the time when it was being discussed the question was not as much about social acceptability but in the inherent difficulty of investigating the crime, like I said if a woman has given birth after normal conception she can claim to have been raped and its a word against word. Anyway the point made about 1994 was that is it was considered late given the degree of emancipation in the society, not that it was late as such.

How eager you think people haling from the groups with highest relative frequency of rape are to report it?

Funny how being born or having lived a good stint in the civilized Sweden have not rooted out the evil tendencies from Finns, only made them worse (I have a politically most incorrect hunch).

[Upphew]

This all makes the whole statement in the post by upphew a bit coloured and intended to misuse a highly volatile issue to whip up sentiment. Like most of his other posts..

Just saying..

I'll get back to the studies when I'm on a device that I can properly read them, but this point I'll challenge. Yeah, I have opinions and I'm not too shy to voice them. I usually like to cite sources, hell, many times it is only thing I post! I have no intention to "whip up sentiment", but in some posts I do use... not so roundabout expressions and I do sometimes exaggerate and try to prod people to get responses. I checked my posting history and I wouldn't categorize "most of" my post like you do. There are two threads, this one and viewtopic.php?f=20&t=90023 ,that I would think are in the most of my other posts -category...

[Piet]

..... I have opinions and I'm not too shy to voice them. I usually like to cite sources "without quoting them in context".. (fixed it for you), hell, many times it is only thing I post! I have no intention to "whip up sentiment", but in some posts I do use... not so roundabout expressions and I do sometimes exaggerate and try to prod people to get responses. I checked my posting history and I wouldn't categorize "most of" my post like you do. There are two threads, this one and viewtopic.php?f=20&t=90023 ,that I would think are in the most of my other posts -category...

Where I come from, we call that "Trolling"..

Funny how being born or having lived a good stint in the civilized Sweden have not rooted out the evil tendencies from Finns, only made them worse (I have a politically most incorrect hunch).

Funny to see that the Native Swedish talking Finns are way below the Finnish average in this same investigation... would it have anything to do with the language too?...
Statistical, one could say that learning Finnish language makes you violent
This is also called Trolling upphew!
I am integrated and took over habits of Finnish, among others also forgetting to use signing light when changing direction with the car, developing a lactose intolerance etc. etc.

edit: you gotta read this one too: http://www.pauldickman.com/misc/helsinki.php

[Upphew]

..... I have opinions and I'm not too shy to voice them. I usually like to cite sources "without quoting them in context".. (fixed it for you), hell, many times it is only thing I post! I have no intention to "whip up sentiment", but in some posts I do use... not so roundabout expressions and I do sometimes exaggerate and try to prod people to get responses. I checked my posting history and I wouldn't categorize "most of" my post like you do. There are two threads, this one and viewtopic.php?f=20&t=90023 ,that I would think are in the most of my other posts -category...

Where I come from, we call that "Trolling"..

Where I come from, the thing you did is called ad hominem. You can view my posting history and come back to say that I just troll and try to misuse volatile issues. Then we can agree to disagree.

Funny how being born or having lived a good stint in the civilized Sweden have not rooted out the evil tendencies from Finns, only made them worse (I have a politically most incorrect hunch).

Funny to see that the Native Swedish talking Finns are way below the Finnish average in this same investigation... would it have anything to do with the language too?...
Statistical, one could say that learning Finnish language makes you violent

One could argue that. Or one could argue that small communities are safer in many ways, not including privacy.

[Oho]

Funny to see that the Native Swedish talking Finns are way below the Finnish average in this same investigation... would it have anything to do with the language too?...
Statistical, one could say that learning Finnish language makes you violent

Laugh track, I guess you do need to tell when you are supposed to be funny, don't, you are not.

Well as for the language, be that as it may, though Finnish is not quite as bad in that respect as pretty much any other Language save Swedish spoken in the country especially those hailing form the Middle East or Africa.

[Marsh04]

Just read this somewehre

http://www.migranttales.net/behad-salem ... xperience/

[Oho]

Just read this somewehre

http://www.migranttales.net/behad-salem ... xperience/

Oh man now you found your true demographic and hit the real mother lode... Migranttales...

[Piet]

Where I come from, the thing you did is called ad hominem. You can view my posting history and come back to say that I just troll and try to misuse volatile issues. Then we can agree to disagree.

I was referring to this topic and all I see is you admitting in your post:

I do use... not so roundabout expressions and I do sometimes exaggerate and try to prod people to get responses.

That is Trolling, and me pointing that out is not any ad hominem, it is off topic for sure but a reply on your reaction (which was also off topic) You might want to check the meaning of "ad hominem".

Further it would please the other readers (I think) if you would restrain yourself form these practises and react on topic. "Living in Finland as a foreigner" as we all try to do.
The only thing what I found you and oho doing (in this thread) is trying to deny (and later quasi admit) the status quo of the situation in Finland regarding Foreigners and their problems to fit in due to the xenophobic and nepotist attitude of a lot of Finns (luckily not all of them so there is still hope )

You surely (should) realize that I am not the only one (even here in this thread) with this opinion and the experiences whereon these opinions are based.

I can point out some probable reasons or causes for it (at least which I believe are contributing to the problem).

Here we go:
During the second world war, a lot of Finnish men were Fighting and away from home, this left the women alone and these had to learn real quick to take care of the family alone.
Due to this, the Finnish women emancipated real quick in taking over "normal" male tasks because they had to in order to survive.
When Finnish men came home after the war, this did not change everything back, the women did not de-emancipate, in contrary, they accelerated their emancipation, even faster than in other European countries.
Finnish men were left behind and were not able to follow the speed of change the women were going through, this caused them to become even more introvert and emotional dead.
And now we are in the future and what do we see: a very emancipated Female Finnish community where women know very well what they want and that is the biggest cause for all the domestic violence as well because the Men cannot deal with that and when the booz comes in the Men, suddenly all this cropped up anger and disappointment and frustration comes out...
But now they need other scapegoats as well...ah there are foreigners that are actually not emotional zombies, something the Finnish women like better, lets blame them for all our misery.
They steal our women...use our Tax money, all are jobless leaches....but at the same time forgetting that they all created it themselves and they are the only ones to blame...

Let me stress here that this is just a thesis (thesis + antithesis = syntheses = discussion).