Living in Finland as a foreigner

[FinnGuyHelsinki]

If you think that Finnish men are emotionally dead and that is because their grandfathers or great grandfathers were at war, one can wonder what you think of people having experienced war themselves.

[Rip]

>.
Finnish men were left behind and were not able to follow the speed of change the women were going through, this caused them to become even more introvert and emotional dead.
And now we are in the future and what do we see: a very emancipated Female Finnish community where women know very well what they want and that is the biggest cause for all the domestic violence as well because the Men cannot deal with that and when the booz comes in the Men, suddenly all this cropped up anger and disappointment and frustration comes out...

Bit rich that the same person who wrote this is accusing others for trolling.

[Oho]

...

Bit rich that the same person who wrote this is accusing others for trolling.

I doubt he did, seems like for the bulk at least its a a cut and paste. I am pretty sure he has hardly any understanding of the countries history, not even sufficient to peddle !"#¤% like this on his own.

Then he peddles some logical framework crap about syntheses or discussion, hell yeah, as if any common ground was plausible or as if he was thought provoking, he is not, annoying is not the same thing. Him or her (I doubt it) and his ilk of: 'Finland would be great if it wasn't for the Finns', dime a dozen I tell you.

[Piet]

I doubt he did, seems like for the bulk at least its a a cut and paste. I am pretty sure he has hardly any understanding of the countries history, not even sufficient to peddle !"#¤% like this on his own.

Then he peddles some logical framework crap about syntheses or discussion, hell yeah, as if any common ground was plausible or as if he was thought provoking, he is not, annoying is not the same thing. Him or her (I doubt it) and his ilk of: 'Finland would be great if it wasn't for the Finns', dime a dozen I tell you.

I am glad that it annoys you, that means there must be some truth in there. (ps no cut and paste here, just some comments / explanations of several of my Finnish friends with whom I discussed this matter).

Bit rich that the same person who wrote this is accusing others for trolling.

Exactly!! now you know how that feels!!

If you think that Finnish men are emotionally dead and that is because their grandfathers or great grandfathers were at war, one can wonder what you think of people having experienced war themselves.

To answer your wondering...... I think highly of the ones that actually sacrifice their life for the freedom of their country.. it does not matter where on earth...
By the way, you might want to read more carefully, I said "at least contribute to the problem" and this does not equal "Because their grandfathers were at war", especially when it is not about the Grandfathers at all but about the ability of the Finnish women to emancipate that quick.

Also the fact that Finnish man are introvert and emotionally dead is not my view but the view of a lot of Finnish women (that is why they have a foreign boyfriend / man). And again I gave you a Finnish media source for that too (several for that matter... just read back through this thread).

You guys (oho, upphew, FinnGuyHelsinki) ignore most of the things, (stated in this thread by people telling nothing more than facts and experiences from Living in Finland as a foreigner), subsequently denying all facts and then even blame the foreigners themselves for the trouble they have adjusting and integrating into Finnish society.

As for me and the "stories" / "facts" / "sources" I mentioned, are all learned from Finnish people explaining me life in Finland and my own experiences. There is no denying in those..
You can call me names, tell I am wrong, tell me I am mad or insane, but until now, no one showed me any facts accompanied by source material or otherwise proof that was not ripped out of context or twisted otherwise out of its original meaning.

So why do you guys do not grow up and start to admit there is a problem with Finns and their view of foreigners and start giving us immigrants some advise with what we can actually can do to integrate better and easier (constructive critics and idea's). Until now you only make "your" problem of not integrated / accepted foreigners, bigger.
And it is "your" problem because you pay the income support of all jobless immigrant that want to work but are not allowed by the Finns refusing / unwilling to hire them. So much talent (like marsh04 said too) is wasted that would be so beneficial to Finland as a whole..

So to get back to the point of this discussion:
Living in Finland as a Foreigner is:

• Great when you have money enough and are independent of the system, you just buy the service you need.
• Great when you are an uneducated immigrant, you can study here for (almost) free and enough jobs Finns do not want to do (cleaning and healthcare f.e.)
• Great when you are a refugee, you will be taken care of and Finland is safe compared to you home country, after that see uneducated immigrant.
• Great when you have a big young family, child care and education are great and when both parents are jobless, see next.
• Great when you are not smoking and don't drink and have no need for luxury, welfare is enough to keep you in rather good condition, all medical needs are paid for and child support is including their social development and sports, this stops when they get 18.
• Great when you are a high educated immigrant that got (invited for) a job here at a big international company (like Kone or Marioff) and you found a Finnish women here in the process.
• Great when you are a(n) (exchange) student, see all previous, until you graduate, see next
• Sucks when you finished your (higher) education and you have a foreign last name or colour. You will probably be stuck on a job like cleaning Vantaa airport or be a bus driver.
• Sucks when you are a high educated immigrant that just happened to fall in love with a Finnish women on a holiday and decide to join her in Finland, you will most probably be jobless the rest of your life (not even a bus company or Lassila & Tikanoja will want you)
• Sucks when you are an immigrant that used to work for a big Finnish company (f.e.Nokia) and now being sacked, your luck ran out and you should have saved your money, see first point (you might want to try Jolla if coding is your thing).
• Sucks when you are an immigrant women (regardless of your education) that came to Finland because you fell in love with a Finnish man, life here turns out to be soo much different than he told you and so does he! But you still can become a waitress if you look reasonably good!!

Some of my own recommendations for the parts that suck if you want a relevant job:
(in the right order of importance)
Really try the "Suhteet" system, this is your only chance!! ask friends and family, on every party you are, your neighbours, talkoot, etc.
Google for "The Ultimate Finnish Language learning pack (2013)" and learn more Finnish (if you have nothing better to do )
Change your last name into a Finnish one.. (example Mc Pherson -> Jousinen )

Those are my 2ct, I guess it has proven useless to discuss this with mentioned posters hence their lack of positive input and overall denial. so I will leave it at this...good luck to you all.

[FinnGuyHelsinki]

It's just that your reasoning pretty much sucks. For example, you're saying that "a lot of Finnish women have immigrant boyfriends/spouses". How many percent of all Finnish women (that are in a relationship with a man) do you think that is? So it's not actually a lot, now is it? First you make clearly a false or at least a completely exaggerated statement, and then carry on with your own explanation as to why that is. Another example: it is clear to anyone with even a half a brain that you don't know enough Finnish men to make generalizations like "Finnish men are emotionally dead". Replace that with any other nationality and any personal trait and see just how moronic that sounds. You're living in some sort of a bubble, allowing only views (and likely also people) in it that corroborate your world view, which makes it hard for you to see that maybe those are not representing the actual majority.

[Oho]

I am glad that it annoys you, that means there must be some truth in there.

No I am occasionally e.g. when tired also annoyed by children crying in a bus or having a fit in a grocery store, though usually not quite as much as their parents. Does not mean there is much wisdom or profound truth behind it and truth, well truths are much like opinions so aptly characterized by Inspector Callahan and they are available in Bible or which ever piece of harmful !"#¤% tickles your fancy. Better just not confuse them with facts.

[AldenG]

The same factory of universal wisdom and high-definition ethnic personality typing which discovered that Finnish men are pussywhipped and emotionally dead has made many other useful discoveries as well. One of them is that Dutch men can be recognized anywhere in the world because they are always angry and arguing about something with somebody wherever you find them and simply do not possess the gene for harmonious co-existence. And are vastly overrepresented in couples counseling.

I think it's marvelous that so much is now known scientifically about these kinds of things that once could only be pulled from someone's ass.

[Piet]

Totally off topic again but...I couldn't resist reacting to point out some (obvious) things.

It's just that your reasoning pretty much sucks. For example, you're saying that "a lot of Finnish women have immigrant boyfriends/spouses". How many percent of all Finnish women (that are in a relationship with a man) do you think that is? So it's not actually a lot, now is it? First you make clearly a false or at least a completely exaggerated statement, and then carry on with your own explanation as to why that is. Another example: it is clear to anyone with even a half a brain that you don't know enough Finnish men to make generalizations like "Finnish men are emotionally dead". Replace that with any other nationality and any personal trait and see just how moronic that sounds. You're living in some sort of a bubble, allowing only views (and likely also people) in it that corroborate your world view, which makes it hard for you to see that maybe those are not representing the actual majority.

Here again a good example of bad reading and pulling things out of context: "a lot" does not need to be a high percentage, just a lot (not one ore two that is).
Like Finland takes in a lot of refugees this year but compared to Germany almost nothing and not even a significant percentage of the world's refugees, nevertheless still a lot.
We had "a lot" of young traffic deaths lately, how big percentage is this from the total amount of traffic deaths, or even deaths in general?.. Nevertheless we call it "a Lot"

Further the Finnish "male deficiency" it is not only "my" view, even your media columnists make fun of it (see f.e. http://www.hs.fi/blogi/narrienlaiva/a1305944213082).

The same factory of universal wisdom and high-definition ethnic personality typing which discovered that Finnish men are pussywhipped and emotionally dead has made many other useful discoveries as well. One of them is that Dutch men can be recognized anywhere in the world because they are always angry and arguing about something with somebody wherever you find them and simply do not possess the gene for harmonious co-existence. And are vastly overrepresented in couples counseling.

I think it's marvelous that so much is now known scientifically about these kinds of things that once could only be pulled from someone's ass.

Funny that you say that about the Dutch (which I am not by the way and I do agree with you ), same time it seems Finns are more genetically related to the Dutch than you might think: http://yle.fi/uutiset/finns_in_a_geneti ... wn/6151334
Makes one wonder what makes Finnish being recognized around the world: Are Finnish Men Pussy whipped, emotionally dead, always drunk, violent towards women, always arguing about something with somebody, unable to coexist with anyone, having the highest suicide rate of Europe and vastly over represented in counselling in general??? or am I exaggerating now

But about the Dutch, you have to give them the credit that they are the reason Helsinki exists. In case you do not know this fact, you might want to brush up on Finnish history and Helsinki history in particular. (hint: why did Gustav I build Helsinki?) (oldest grave in Helsinki is from a Dutchman). No sources here, you can find them yourself in Finnish.

That's all folks... have fun twisting my words over and over again... as said before: I guess it has proven useless to discuss this here at all due to the lack of positive input and overall denial by the ones defending the Finnish status quo (without their spell checking on...hint... ).

[onkko]

Funny to see that the Native Swedish talking Finns are way below the Finnish average in this same investigation... would it have anything to do with the language too?...
Statistical, one could say that learning Finnish language makes you violent

Gypsies and 2nd/3rd generation immigrants are counted as finns. Not as bad difference tho. Like when you look robberies in http://www.optula.om.fi/material/attach ... m_2014.pdf

"Ruotsinsuomalaisten siirtolaisten korkea rikollisuustaso näyttäisi kummassakin rikostyypissä
liittyvän romanien rikollisuuteen"

Romas, those 500years integrated nice minorty...

[onkko]

Just read this somewehre
migranttales

Place where everything finnish do is racism and anything else isnt. been there... Thats what tessieri, man with huge hatred agaisnt finns and who thinks he is fighting somekind of 60s US race wars, says.

[AldenG]

(oldest grave in Helsinki is from a Dutchman).

I'm not sure that shows what you want it to show. Some might say they're not the least bit surprised that the first grave in not just Helsinki but many other cities as well would be a Dutchman ; it would at least concord with the "scientifical" point of view I mentioned.

[onkko]

(oldest grave in Helsinki is from a Dutchman).

I'm not sure that shows what you want it to show. Some might say they're not the least bit surprised that the first grave in not just Helsinki but many other cities as well would be a Dutchman ; it would at least concord with the "scientifical" point of view I mentioned.

Who in hell buried or made headstone to dead? They are remembered in songs!

[Piet]

(oldest grave in Helsinki is from a Dutchman).

I'm not sure that shows what you want it to show. Some might say they're not the least bit surprised that the first grave in not just Helsinki but many other cities as well would be a Dutchman ; it would at least concord with the "scientifical" point of view I mentioned.

you own me a new keyboard...just spilled my beer on it.

But seriously, what I want it to show was the fact that Gustav 1 from Sweden, build Helsinki because of the Dutch and their trade with the Baltic countries.
He wanted some of the trade benefits as well. This trade brought the golden eara to the Dutch, they actually paid all their trips to the east and west Indies just from what they earned with trading with the Baltic countries (especially Tallinn).
The grave is from a Dutch trader that settled in Helsinki in the early days.

Around the same period, Willem III from Holland and (later) King of England (married to Mary Stuart) went to war to fight the father of Mary, Jacobus II of England and in Willems army there were 500 Finnish mercenaries that actually were wearing only bear-skins.

So The Dutch know the Finnish already quite long, they bought their long masts for their ships in Rauma (that is a good source for the Dutch genes in the Finnish population too ).

That is all. (but indeed it strengthens the "scientific" point of view )

[FinnGuyHelsinki]

Here again a good example of bad reading and pulling things out of context: "a lot" does not need to be a high percentage, just a lot (not one ore two that is).

Like Finland takes in a lot of refugees this year but compared to Germany almost nothing and not even a significant percentage of the world's refugees, nevertheless still a lot.
We had "a lot" of young traffic deaths lately, how big percentage is this from the total amount of traffic deaths, or even deaths in general?.. Nevertheless we call it "a Lot"

You're right that in order for something to be a "lot" needs a reference, i.e. a lot compared to something. Compared to which countries does Finnish women have "a lot" of non-Finnish boyfriends/spouses? Has there been a notable increase in Finnish women having non-Finnish boyfriends/spouses? So no, you still make wild generalizations, something you seem to be oblivious to.

Further the Finnish "male deficiency" it is not only "my" view, even your media columnists make fun of it (see f.e. http://www.hs.fi/blogi/narrienlaiva/a1305944213082).

And "Apu" the Kwik-E-Mart owner in Simpsons obviously means all (or at least a majority of) Indian men are like that. Not.

[Oho]

That's all folks... have fun twisting my words over and over again... as said before: I guess it has proven useless to discuss this here at all due to the lack of positive input and overall denial by the ones defending the Finnish status quo (without their spell checking on...hint... ).

Exactly what positive input have you brought into this 'discussion'? Hell it seems the only positive thing you want say about a Finn is that he is HIV positive.