Air conditioners for flats in Helsinki

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agroot
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Re: Air conditioners for flats in Helsinki

Post by agroot » Mon May 17, 2021 11:02 pm

Upphew wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 9:39 am
Yup, they are quite noisy in my opinion. Mine is Matsui and its manual says 58dB. Dunno what the settings are, but even at lowest blower speed that is too much in same room to sleep. I usually run mine to get temperature down so I can sleep and then shut it down and sleep window open (which can also be quite noisy).
I found it to have more to do with the fan not the compressor. Compressor should be off most of time but the lowest fan setting is unusual powerful and loud... and the AC comes with a night mode :roll: Maybe it's hackable or modifiable?



Re: Air conditioners for flats in Helsinki

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Upphew
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Re: Air conditioners for flats in Helsinki

Post by Upphew » Tue May 18, 2021 9:49 am

agroot wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 10:22 pm
Do you mean this? https://www.taloon.com/ilmalampopumppu- ... 35-extreme That's like the new inverter split-type air conditioners we started using in Asia in recent years (also cooling+heating, oddly we called both aircon or cooler). But apartments need to have existing holes or pipes in the wall for them - how do you do this here? Back in Asia the AC service guys could drill holes but since buildings here are insulated, I guess the holes would have to be sealed properly and the outdoor unit needs to be able to withstand some -40C temperature?
-40C doesn't sound too bad. Iirc refrigerants freeze somewhere near -100C. Split units do need holes to walls here too, nothing unusual. Getting permission to install one to flat might be the problem. Issue is that the outside unit shouldn't be visible and the condensation water should be dealt with.
agroot wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 10:22 pm
How long has it been running there? I also heard the two-way type is more prone to break than the simpler types which could easily run a decade without need for repair. The electronic board specifically (control/regulation unit?). Even cooling-only splitting type required more maintenance - I used to call service every one or two years for cleaning or dealing with gas or water leaks (clogged in indoor unit). Service was common in Asian cities but seem non-existent here. If service is readily available and no problem with insulation I suppose it's the best option on market... costing a lot of $$$ of course.

EDIT: Are they mainly used in commercial environments here? That'd make a lot of sense and indicates good support
Two ways are more likely to break as they need reversing valve... so not at all more likely to break. Electronics are electronics, they can fail in any kind of equipment. As for costs... you'll likely spend a bit over 1000€ for proper non movable unit for cooling. Likely a lot more in time and effort to get permits and to find dealer that you (and your housing coop) trust. I've seen some horror story installations. Wouldn't recommend to place order just before or during heat wave.
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agroot
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Re: Air conditioners for flats in Helsinki

Post by agroot » Tue May 18, 2021 5:04 pm

Upphew wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 9:49 am
Two ways are more likely to break as they need reversing valve... so not at all more likely to break. Electronics are electronics, they can fail in any kind of equipment. As for costs... you'll likely spend a bit over 1000€ for proper non movable unit for cooling.
Are there apartments here with the kind of "window" (or a big hole with winter cover) for window type air conditioner? window type is reasonably quiet and very cheap in Asia just like portable ones.

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Re: Air conditioners for flats in Helsinki

Post by Upphew » Wed May 19, 2021 9:17 am

agroot wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 5:04 pm
Upphew wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 9:49 am
Two ways are more likely to break as they need reversing valve... so not at all more likely to break. Electronics are electronics, they can fail in any kind of equipment. As for costs... you'll likely spend a bit over 1000€ for proper non movable unit for cooling.
Are there apartments here with the kind of "window" (or a big hole with winter cover) for window type air conditioner? window type is reasonably quiet and very cheap in Asia just like portable ones.
I have never seen those windows units here. Only in movies...
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NukkuMatti
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Re: Air conditioners for flats in Helsinki

Post by NukkuMatti » Fri May 21, 2021 9:57 pm

agroot wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 10:22 pm

Do you mean this? https://www.taloon.com/ilmalampopumppu- ... 35-extreme That's like the new inverter split-type air conditioners we started using in Asia in recent years (also cooling+heating, oddly we called both aircon or cooler). But apartments need to have existing holes or pipes in the wall for them - how do you do this here? Back in Asia the AC service guys could drill holes but since buildings here are insulated, I guess the holes would have to be sealed properly and the outdoor unit needs to be able to withstand some -40C temperature?
Yes Yes and Yes..
4 holes in the wall: 2 for the coolant (feed and return pipe) 1 for power lead 230V to the outdoor unit and one for the drain hose / pipe.
agroot wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 10:22 pm
How long has it been running there? I also heard the two-way type is more prone to break than the simpler types which could easily run a decade without need for repair. The electronic board specifically (control/regulation unit?). Even cooling-only splitting type required more maintenance - I used to call service every one or two years for cleaning or dealing with gas or water leaks (clogged in indoor unit). Service was common in Asian cities but seem non-existent here. If service is readily available and no problem with insulation I suppose it's the best option on market... costing a lot of $$$ of course.

EDIT: Are they mainly used in commercial environments here? That'd make a lot of sense and indicates good support
Mine is running for 9,5 years now, no problems whatsoever, Outdoor unit basically does not need maintenance when placed in a good place as described in the manual. I live in capital area so it does not get too cold here... but even then, there is no point in operating it below -25°C because it will just not be able to extract heat energy from the outside air anymore (according to the manual). So no worries with -40°C, just don't switch it on.

Service is only needed in case of a leak or the outside fan giving up.
This has never happened yet, but leaks mostly come from bad installation jobs and corrosion. (and once it leaks, it will most likely keep leaking).
Corrosion is going slower in Finland due to the lower temperatures (basic chemistry: reaction speed goes exponential faster with higher temperatures so the opposite is true too).

Maintenance of the indoor unit is essential you do this yourself as instructed in the manual (cleaning the evaporator / condenser very carefully, it is having sharp edges on the cooling / heating fins / sheet metal ribs)
Mainly cleaning the removable filters with the vacuum cleaner with soft brush...
Mae sure you use the cleaning program as standard switched on, it will prevent bacterial growth (f.e. legionella).
Water drain goes through the wall to outside and only drains water when used as a cooler, so no worries this will freeze in winter. Have never had to clean the drain yet... should check it maybe now summer is starting..

The Mitsubishi electronics are pretty solid, even with the 24/7 rotating / swinging infra red sensor. There is no key pad or some other interface or buttons, it all works with a remote... can be done manual with a trick but only if the remote is broken or lost... (emergency operation).

Most important for a long life without problems: clean in time!!! (every two weeks when in continuous use).

Another interesting option is the possibility of two indoor units (master slave configuration) on one outdoor unit.. (I will go for that option maybe soon).

I got this inside unit: https://www.mitsubishi-les.info/databas ... l_2010.pdf

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agroot
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Re: Air conditioners for flats in Helsinki

Post by agroot » Sat May 22, 2021 2:14 am

NukkuMatti wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 9:57 pm
Thanks!! :D

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Re: Air conditioners for flats in Helsinki

Post by NukkuMatti » Sat May 22, 2021 11:33 pm

:thumbsup:


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