Fuming! Diesel Prices! Population! Cannot believe this!

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suomynona.yllatot
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:38 pm

Fuming! Diesel Prices! Population! Cannot believe this!

Post by suomynona.yllatot » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:04 pm

I'll begin with an apology for my rant!

So, today, reached back, picked up the car, and went to tank up! #€%&/()=!!! The petrol was cheaper than the diesel at 1,514e and diesel was 1.521!!! :evil: Went online to search the news. Found it! And then the found more news about the population. Leave it to these guys to dream up a way to make money, diesel or babies - either way!

It just continuously proves the point: The population here is so laid back, the government can do whatever, and there is no reaction! I then read the news about a possible citizens' initiative on the diesel prices. I could have told them the answer even before it reaches the nuts in the parliament, as with the case of the inheritance taxes...! Let go of money? Them?

On the diesel: Now, yes, there are many of us that would argue that diesel (even with AdBlue) still may be more polluting. Yes, if that is the case, create a plan to get rid of the diesel cars, rather than simply add and add on top!

On the population vs. pension: Pension reform? And population shrink? Not even remotely related... they'll find another way/ reason to not pay pensions or raise the age.

Honestly, this is one of the *MOST* unfriendly countries to have babies. Spent a couple of years in DE/ I don't speak German, but if true that's how the population is incentivised to have babies, as I understood there are tax benefits if you have kids, hence the incentive to have children! I had kids, yep, there is maternity/ paternity leave, there is most countries. Neo/ ante-Natal care, way better in .se and .dk. Also, in France/ Germany! Tuition is free, but so is it in most of the EU countries. But the costs just add up hard. Not to mention the inheritance!

They really need new working brains in the lobby here. Simple! I'll tell you what:
  • Drop the tax rate for having a kid by 5%, or let's say 2,5% per kid. See how the population grows.
  • Drop the tax rates on home purchase, 3-4% per child. See how the population grows.
  • Allow kids services expenses to be deductible, e.g. music lessons. See how the population grows.
  • Nullify transport costs for kids up to the age of 16/18. See how the population grows.
They really, really, really need new brains. Thinking ones at that.

Another 1-month to go! Sheesh! I'll still have to keep aware of Finland... Damn! Wish I had never moved here, never F%/(%&/() the #€%&/(), and never had kids here.


Yep, it is! What's the big deal?

Fuming! Diesel Prices! Population! Cannot believe this!

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Marsh04
Posts: 343
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Re: Fuming! Diesel Prices! Population! Cannot believe this!

Post by Marsh04 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:28 pm

Diesel tax is just milking the climate change. Now people are brainwashed enough to not resist any tax in the name of climate change control.

Your tax break suggestion to increase the population is very logical. First of all there will be no benefits for the rabits who live on cash incentives and the working families will be encouraged to have children. That will give in turn more man power willing to work.

I support inheritance tax. And I think all those people who are taken care by the state should have their all properties taken by the state. If you can't take care of your parents, brothers, sisters, you shouldn't be expecting to get their properties once they are dead.


tavastia
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Re: Fuming! Diesel Prices! Population! Cannot believe this!

Post by tavastia » Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:18 am

Diesel tax is actually propulsion tax and even electric cars needs to pay a smaller one. Why if it's about pollution and climate change? My current gasoline car has higher CO2 emissions than my previous 10 years old diesel, yearly tax is 200€ for gasoline vs 600€ for diesel...


FinnGuyHelsinki
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Re: Fuming! Diesel Prices! Population! Cannot believe this!

Post by FinnGuyHelsinki » Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:24 am

tavastia wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:18 am
My current gasoline car has higher CO2 emissions than my previous 10 years old diesel, yearly tax is 200€ for gasoline vs 600€ for diesel...
... but gasoline has more tax than diesel fuel.


FinnGuyHelsinki
Posts: 1025
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Re: Fuming! Diesel Prices! Population! Cannot believe this!

Post by FinnGuyHelsinki » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:21 am

Marsh04 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:28 pm
Diesel tax is just milking the climate change.
It's all about milking the car owners for billions per year, climate change is just the most recent stated reasoning behind it, the history goes back much further. The car (sales) tax itself dates back to late 50's, when the law passed with the requirement that it will be temporary, yet it still exists.


tavastia
Posts: 409
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Re: Fuming! Diesel Prices! Population! Cannot believe this!

Post by tavastia » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:39 am

... but gasoline has more tax than diesel fuel.
There used to be 20-30c difference in prices, now is not anymore...


suomynona.yllatot
Posts: 57
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Re: Fuming! Diesel Prices! Population! Cannot believe this!

Post by suomynona.yllatot » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:31 pm

Marsh04 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:28 pm
I support inheritance tax. And I think all those people who are taken care by the state should have their all properties taken by the state. If you can't take care of your parents, brothers, sisters, you shouldn't be expecting to get their properties once they are dead.
Long post! Apologies! I feel quite strongly about it! :twisted:

On the Inheritance tax: You have a very valid point! - In the circumstances you describe. And to be fair, in the majority of the population, I find your argument to be very moral as well. If you don't take care, nor turn a caring hand, you shouldn't be profiting off the death of the person either. Fully agree. But nor should the state. You'll find more about this statement below.

Your argument though correct and moral, is also very cultural, let me paste my case here. The feeling is identical to many that I have spoken. A lot of them are soft-spoken about it, I am just bloody vocal. Many friends of mine have moved out due to this taxation issues, and I'll move out shortly too. Why do we feel so strongly about it?

I don't hold the "Nordic" (apologies if I am offending somebody) standard for family, our familial links extend outwards, three clans apart, we still are close. For this argument, let's keep it to the so-called "western" standard of family, mother, father, *** underage kids***.

I ask myself: Who am I working for? And the answer for me is quite obvious: First and foremost, to provide for my family, my kids.
Put it bluntly, not for the Finns at large, especially not the slimes that have a different moral standard for them vs. me.

Now, if my money is mine - the product of my labour, my hands, my brains, my education - NONE of which Finland has paid for (birth onwards). And if my money is mine - legally and lawfully obtained, and taxes paid, and saved because of my frugality - it is then mine to do and decide with. I decide that I earn for my kids, and thus I decide where my money goes.

NOT for the blood-sucking, sauna renters, and 22000e taxi receipt payers, and these are just the ones we know of.

So, if something were to happen, the very money that I have earned, saved, would be taken and leave my kids in despair? Hell! NO -#€%&/()! way!

There is a group that I am part of on Facebook, it is called Apua Vahaväräsille. I follow anonymously and do what I can. Read the issues there, it will make you cringe. Some of the posts are begging for food, clothes, even hygiene products (you know what that means, e.g. for women, my heart goes out). I remember one post, family of five, married in Jan 2018, car accident in Feb 2018, husband died on spot, wife still in pain - cannot work, but is not certified invalid, family in squalor, inheritance taxes took away quite a sum, now cannot afford even basic food! Begging on social media! How many of you know that people in Finland face this levels of extreme poverty?

Most of the natives cannot and will not understand it, for their minds have been trained otherwise. Nope, I am not a conspiracy theorist! I sometimes tell the Finns about it, and guess what, they just cannot *bring themselves to believe it. In their mind... Finland is the greatest country in the world.. . blah... blah... blah. A video from the comedian Trevor Noah explains the reaction, key point starting at 18:57. Just so that I don't confuse, the video itself is talking about racism, but the point I want to make is about the reaction when confronted with a truth that one has been programmed against.
Here's an irritant for me: A few years ago, there was this woman we knew, who came to pick berries from our garden. After about two bucketfuls, she turns around to me and says, "Such nice berries, you have had a lot, >>> aren't you glad to be living in Finland?", Er, what? Not that, Finland has great berries, nor that you have tended the garden, nor that the weather has good for the berry harvest, but aren't I lucky to be living here. Sure, she started it, but hasn't come back for berries any more, wonder why!

For those that are going to come and retort that we have good roads, healthcare, whatever... trust me South Africa (recent trip) has better roads than here! Healthcare? Most of Europe, and even Asia have it. Schools... Finns have good schooling (different from education), but for the past few years, ceilings have fallen, literally!

I could tell you lots more, including why my Dad refuses to visit us in Finland. Simply put, he didn't care for the attitude either! And I see his view.
FinnGuyHelsinki wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:21 am
Marsh04 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:28 pm
Diesel tax is just milking the climate change.
It's all about milking the car owners for billions per year, climate change is just the most recent stated reasoning behind it, the history goes back much further. The car (sales) tax itself dates back to late 50's, when the law passed with the requirement that it will be temporary, yet it still exists.
Spot on!
Yep, it is! What's the big deal?


Rick1
Posts: 1261
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Re: Fuming! Diesel Prices! Population! Cannot believe this!

Post by Rick1 » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:10 pm

We do not need more babies, we have to send every year billions to the countries where they produce like rabbits, see how the economy is doing there. There is now already not enough work for people here if 8 % unemployment. two flies in one hit, less pollution more work.


undertakerfreak
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Re: Fuming! Diesel Prices! Population! Cannot believe this!

Post by undertakerfreak » Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:21 am

If your dad won't visit you in Finland because he thinks the people here suck, and you agree with him, why do you still even live here, dude? Honest question. I only ever see you complain about Finland. A big reason I left the US is because I was unhappy with the country – much like yourself – and I've never been happier in my entire life since I moved here. Just something to consider.


Upphew
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Re: Fuming! Diesel Prices! Population! Cannot believe this!

Post by Upphew » Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:37 am

tavastia wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:39 am
... but gasoline has more tax than diesel fuel.
There used to be 20-30c difference in prices, now is not anymore...
The price difference is the same now that it was in January 2012. Memories grow sweeter with time. I too remember how diesel was under 1€/l. I also remember how the price difference was under 10c between 95 and diesel.
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suomynona.yllatot
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:38 pm

Re: Fuming! Diesel Prices! Population! Cannot believe this!

Post by suomynona.yllatot » Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:13 pm

Upphew wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:37 am
I too remember how diesel was under 1€/l. I also remember how the price difference was under 10c between 95 and diesel.
There was a time when I regularly tanked up (gas/ petrol) at near Espoon Keskus and then also at Valimotie (near Bauhaus) for 0,98e! Yep, 0.98e cents, was that in 2002? That continued for a while! Then the prices just shot up!
undertakerfreak wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:21 am
If your dad won't visit you in Finland because he thinks the people here suck, and you agree with him...
Would you hear me out with an open mind? :) Hope this gives you an insight into why I am so vocal about some of the issues.

It's not the direct aggressiveness at all, never claimed that. About him: Subtly said, yes, he is not fair skinned..., well over 70yrs, educated, and a gentleman. And he has a pension that will turn a native here sour! Retired from a senior post. Guess his experiences at the Finnish Embassy! Guess his experiences at the border control in Finland. He never treats people wrong, and won't accept that either. And did not. Gave some nasty responses back (I'm like him as well). So, he chooses not to come here and goes where people behave well.
undertakerfreak wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:21 am
...why do you still even live here, dude? Honest question. I only ever see you complain about Finland.
Trust me, I wasn't like this. And some say it is a fault, I always approach with an open slate, an open mind, trusted people and the system. I learnt and changed over the space of two decades. For the moment, I am here because of my kids. Will be soon out of here. Less than a month to go! :thumbsup:
undertakerfreak wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:21 am
A big reason I left the US is because I was unhappy with the country – much like yourself – and I've never been happier in my entire life since I moved here. Just something to consider.
And I definitely won't in any way judge your experiences so far.

However, a lot of people, again, I don't say all, wake up to a harsh reality in some time. E.g. There's a Chinese friend of ours, who loves it here. And I won't criticise him, but here's the thing, he does not work, doesn't speak a word of Finnish, all he does is play games (computer games) from his home. Get's some support from the city. His wife works. He thinks the place is marvellous. You could argue if it is an informed mindset, but he is entitled to his view.

See I recently travelled (work) to India, Thailand, and China. The big difference is that you know that in those countries cheats exist. And the cheats know that you know that they will try to con you out. Aka Fair deal. What I hate about the system here, is the purported angels of innocence and truth that are not true. And if you point out issues, then the standard response is "Well, if you don't like it, you can go to where you came from". See the video that I posted above. Since you are from the US, I guess you know of Trevor Noah? And it is not just the foreigners, but also the natives, see my previous post of the FB group. Can you imagine this in Finland? Where are the taxes going?

I do my part. A Thai guy having studied in Ireland made his move here, now tried to buy a house. Guess the advice he got from the realtor, and from the bank! He asked me for my advice, I went with him. Initially, they even refused to let me support him until I challenged them legally. In short, he was being shortchanged - putting it mildly. Many such cases.

For me, it is more the system that people are put through. A system that is supposedly through a democratic process, but as far as I have seen politics actively, it is an oligarchy. Anyway, if you've read my posts above, you'll see my gripe, i.e. there were two issues, but there are more:

- The diesel tax was initially promised only for three (3) years, IIRC the discussion. What happened? The morons can't count? Imagine paying the hiked up prices on diesel and the diesel tax.

- The inheritance tax (I've written the moral issue about it above). My personal issues, the biggest gripe is the inheritance taxes. And how the government knows it is wrong, people have responded (kansalaialoite/ citizen's initiative), and yet defer it.

Other issues?

- The continuously raising pension age: The moral issue with this is the contract. When you join the workforce, there is a contract, that you will retire at age nn and pension in accordance. It is ONLY in the governments that they dare to change the contract without penalties.

- The changed unemployment model: I have this dirty habit of talking to all. At Tikkurila, there is a car wash, and I don't know if I wrote about this before. A Finnish guy (I am not sure if he is a native Finn though, subtly speaking), he too was washing cars. Did not seem the type, certainly not with wire-rimmed glasses, stuck up a conversation. In short, 40 years worked in the paper industry, got laid off, and according to active model, had to accept something so he could get the income-based unemployment. You see, when you pay the unemployment contribution (check your payslip), that is a contract that IF something happens, you will be covered.

Can you imagine a contract being changed one-sided after it has been signed in the private sector? Would you agree that you pay for a BMW and are delivered a Lada simply because the dealer chooses to?

- The salary levels for foreigners: And yes, having been a hiring manager for a long while, I can tell you, I've seen cases where foreigners being paid 30-40% less for the same work - me included. Should I be enthused about it? In fact, there was a public person on TV that claimed that "we need foreigners, who else will do the works that natives don't want to do". And then another one that claimed to pay immigrants less. OK, I'll grant you that, I am not a refugee in need of protection, I am an economic/ work-based immigrant, but I still am not a native, and I too belong in that "immigrant" club.

Now you might argue that things are relatively better here, and you are right. I don't ever compare myself downwards, I always compare upwards.

Taxation for me is a huge issue. So, e.g. I take the kids cases very seriously. I know this couple that is having a very hard time, the wife and kid need lactose and gluten-free products. But they cannot afford it on one person's salary, lactose/ gluten-free products cost more, milk is almost double the price. But he does not get a respite from taxes, i.e. must he pay his dues to the fu(%!0# 5h!theads in government before he can feed his kid? Where's the moral line that they talk of?

What about the immigrant children's rights to meet their grandparents? Often, they stay in distant lands, why should the Finnish kids be able to meet their grandparents, and the immigrant families not get any respite to maintain their family ties?

What about the immigrant children's rights to gifts from their grandparents? I know this child that got an expensive watch from his grandfather on his graduation. Problem is he got it when he want to meet them there. Customs duty imposed? But a native kid can get up to 6000e tax free? How does that work for equality?

As I said, it could be worth reading what I write off, in my previous post as well.

As for me, I am off soon, I'll have to follow the !"#¤% because of kids!

Hope that gives you an insight into why I am so vocal about some of the issues.
Yep, it is! What's the big deal?


Rick1
Posts: 1261
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Re: Fuming! Diesel Prices! Population! Cannot believe this!

Post by Rick1 » Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:11 pm

You have been here too long :-) to see through the myths. As long as majority of Finns choose for Sipilä and friends it will not change, do not see other option either.


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