A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

[KattyTheKitty]

The price is not that much only 41 euro, but thanks for your information anyway, now I understand it. Yeah I know that they will charge you based on your stay at the hospital during the delivery. I'm due very soon with a baby girl. Hopefully everything will be okay.

Then it is just normal price for an extra ultra visit. And it means that you're already in the system now.
About insurance - I have insurance for both children and by the time I bought at least first one I didn't speak any Finnish. My insurance company is Pohjola. Probably you should ask in several companies, not stopping after getting first refusal.
Anyway I wish you easy delivery and all the best for you and your baby.

Fake news? https://www.cbsnews.com/news/why-finlan ... d=64376255

If everything goes smooth it can be about this. All the Neuvola visits and PLANNED ultrasounds and tests as well as PLANNED doctor visits are free. All the EXTRA should be payed, but not that much. Then just couple of days in a hospital and that's it.
In both my cases it costed much more, but I still think it's very affordable for the quality of care I got.

Thank you for your information. Will try to sign up for pohlaja.

[Tallasstraveler]

So by the outside looking in. Is the healthcare on a downward spiral, or is this how it has always been, and more of it is just coming to light?? Ive always heard nothing but good, and my Finn friends say nothing but good, and the news says nothing but good.. but here I see a much different picture of the more hit-or-miss nature, as I would have expected.

And if it has gone down, what do you think could be the cause? Influx of immigrants weighing on the system? I know with all the positive press, lots of people want to move there. Government bloat? I'm curious, as someone who wants to eventually settle down there when I finish contracting in Afghanistan.

[Upphew]

And if it has gone down, what do you think could be the cause? Influx of immigrants weighing on the system?

Aging population. After WW2 there were few years with over 100000 newborn per year. Now we are at 50000 per year.

[network_engineer]

And if it has gone down, what do you think could be the cause? Influx of immigrants weighing on the system?

Aging population. After WW2 there were few years with over 100000 newborn per year. Now we are at 50000 per year.

Spot on! That is definitely a factor. There are others too, which you are also identified, e.g.

Government bloat?

I'd say gloat, not bloat. But there is both the bloat and the gloat! The bloat gloat is not just on the healthcare front, the bloat exists also in the overall public structure. Sadly! For sure, in my mind, any public bureaucrat or official in the process is quite often and simply one too many!

E.g. I know this one young person, she is ~26, works on the unemployment allowances at the social services institution. In my opinion, part of the bloat, never worked a day producing anything, gets a comfortable allowance and city-official perks. The "official" decides if the poor guy who has worked 40+ years, and paid his unemployment insurance gets his safety-net-allowance or not! I am NOT saying it is fully arbitrary! But ...!

Ive always heard nothing but good, and my Finn friends say nothing but good, and the news says nothing but good.. but here I see a much different picture of the more hit-or-miss nature, as I would have expected.

That's not bloat! See, here's my perspective, and it's probably because I've travelled and lived wide. And before I say this, many may disagree, but there is a level of indoctrination that comes with a homogenous collective identity. It is not limited to Finland, but some countries like Finland, US, India, Canada, and maybe Japan are among the three top contestants when it comes to "blah, blah, blah, we are the best country in the world".

Somebody once told me that the administration here can serve the size of the German population. I've said this before: In most of the public healthcare structures, there are people making the appointments available. Look at the private healthcare provider, you can choose the doctor, place, and time at your convenience. This means that e.g. there are too many people that are doing low value work, with one euro too many in their salaries!

Is the healthcare on a downward spiral, or is this how it has always been, and more of it is just coming to light??

The again, I'd say, the healthcare depends a lot on *where* you are based, and the doctors/ nurses in place there. Some are very good. In fact, while we lived about 65 kms north of Helsinki, the local clinic was amazing, the close by larger healthcare clinic was even better. Small place, every knows everybody kinda thing, and very good quality. Then there was a time when I was at the central hospital in Helsinki, that okay too. The administrative skills and budgets are poor.

Then, and I've said this before, you have the healthcare clinics where the local GP been in a the same rut for a few centuries, no specialisation, frustrated, and just comes to get a salary. What would you expect?

Influx of immigrants weighing on the system?

Easy to blame it on the immigrant always, eh? No, I am just kidding. I cannot comment that, but what do you mean by immigrants? You mean the work based immigrants? I don't think they are the ones burdening the system. OTOH, a lot of the immigrants have experienced better and competent healthcare! So, they start raising the issues, especially when hit with high taxes and substandard primary healthcare. Tertiary healthcare is excellent.

By immigrants, if you mean refugees, I have my doubts on it. Unless you mean that they are just sitting at the healthcare and basically just queuing up for the fun of it. Even then it is a no, at least, there doesn't seem to be evidences to back that up! Of course, if you'd listen to the rhetoric comes from the likes of well... it would be truth, nothing but the truth!

And if it has gone down, what do you think could be the cause?

Aging population as said already. But I am sure there are many other reasons for this as well. Too many of the young ones not motivated enough and too expensive for school/ college. Too many wanting fortunes and lifestyles without the effort, I think a Finnish friend said that. Watch the inital part of the documentary called the Four Horsemen, it tells you the various signs gathered over centuries that indicates a possible cultural collapse. To put it very subtly, today, the leading nations in the world in STEM are China and India. China, as far as I know is leading, e.g. AI. I hope I am being subtle enough?

[Upphew]

It is not limited to Finland, but some countries like Finland, US, India, Canada, and maybe Japan are among the three top contestants when it comes to "blah, blah, blah, we are the best country in the world".

I think Finns have always thought that Finland is the best country for Finns in the world. Best country period, that is quite new sentiment, if true.

[network_engineer]

I think Finns have always thought that Finland is the best country for Finns in the world. Best country period, that is quite new sentiment, if true.

Yep, the earlier saying used to be "suomi on paras maa suomalaisille", with the news and media stating all the great things about Finland that has changed to ... leaving the "suomalaisille" out.

[Piet]

I think Finns have always thought that Finland is the best country for Finns in the world. Best country period, that is quite new sentiment, if true.

Yep, the earlier saying used to be "suomi on paras maa suomalaisille", with the news and media stating all the great things about Finland that has changed to ... leaving the "suomalaisille" out.

Makes me think of a phrase commonly heard a little more south, on the other side of the water... "Deutschland über alles"

Makes one wonder about the swastika of Finnish airforce as well...

[FinnGuyHelsinki]

Makes one wonder about the swastika of Finnish airforce as well...

It has been there since 1918, thus pre-dating the nazis, if that's what you're wondering.

[network_engineer]

phrase commonly heard a little more south, on the other side of the water... "Deutschland über alles"

Yeesh! So this is wider! There should've been a difference between nationalism and patriotism (or is there?), but sometimes the lines are so thin!

[Tallasstraveler]

I was referring to all immigrants, be it working immigrants, or refugees. Anyone who immigrates to the country and starts the add and subtract with taxes and services. I won't pretend to understand how it works. But I would assume, if you start working at 18 or whenever, and contribute tax dollars. Along the way there is probably a net gain more often than not, from the taxes. For any services you use, until you get to a certain age to start utilizing more, when evened out over the years. When you suddenly have someone(s) who hasn't contributed, or just starts to contribute, but utilizes the services, in the short run, I assume it's a net loss, until it hopefully evens out. I would assume you can extrapolate it for things like childcare and etc. So I would consider it a burden on the system. Especially if plain as day, more people are utilizing the services, increasing wait time, or peoples penchant to put up with !"#¤% lol.

That said, I wasnt asserting anything, simply asking. I didn't know what could cause it and threw out what I assumed could cause a burden. Since I plan on moving there and starting a family when im done contracting overseas. Any service I start using when I get there, which hopefully should be none in the immediate. Would be a net loss in the short run, since id only begin to be contributing through tax dollars. And I have heard there are many like me who fell in love with Finland, and want to move there. You guys are always in the news. So I meant any and all immigrants.

[Piet]

Makes one wonder about the swastika of Finnish airforce as well...

It has been there since 1918, thus pre-dating the nazis, if that's what you're wondering.

No actually what I was wondering is why it is still there... why did they not dispose of it after / during WW2
I mean before WW2 it did not mean anything like what it means / is associated with, today

[Upphew]

Makes one wonder about the swastika of Finnish airforce as well...

It has been there since 1918, thus pre-dating the nazis, if that's what you're wondering.

No actually what I was wondering is why it is still there... why did they not dispose of it after / during WW2
I mean before WW2 it did not mean anything like what it means / is associated with, today

KKK means K-supermarket and should still be on top of everyone if you ask me.

[Piet]

KKK means K-supermarket and should still be on top of everyone if you ask me.

Never seen that, just the one K only... guess most of the stores figured that out themselves, however seeing the results of the elections, there might be a return soon...

Finland is starting to show its true face:
https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/finl ... s/10747004

[Retread]

Fascinating discussion! I read every word.

I like hearing of other's experiences in Finland and abroad. And the propaganda vs reality.
I have lived here before (1999 to 2005) and we returned in January 2019. I have worked for the last 11 years in public health in Australia (patient accounts, so dealing with private patients in public hospitals and students, tourists, foreign workers and partners of residents with no Medicare or with/without insurance or money).

Both our children were born here (2000 and 2003) and I had my appendix out here as well. All 3 experiences were very good. It was an older (and old-school) GP that insisted I go to the hospital for tests for suspected appendicitis. She was going to send me in an ambulance but I talked her out of that! (long story).

So 13/14 yrs later, we are back and observing the changes ...
Interesting to note the ability to get a referral from a private doctor to a public test facility ... My mother-in-law did just that recently. The doctor apparently stating, "To save you some money." (which it did).

Re: implanted prosthetics mentioned earlier (stents etc.) ... In AU the cost is also regulated by govt. They set the maximum price allowed and of course the suppliers charge that maximum price. The hospitals do not make money on these items. The insurers, depending on the item category and agreement pay either the full price, less 15% or 20% unless proof of cost is provided. But that is a can of worms for another day open to interpretation ...

If someone rocks up to Emergency, expecting to be served in any other language than English ... good luck. Most non-English speaking people will arrive with someone who speaks English somewhat. I have read many instances where a doctor or nurse is called upon to interpret. Professional interpreters are provided, by phone or in person, at no cost to the patient. Very occasionally a family member or friend will interpret.

Oh, but the people on the front desk can be rather curt (blunt). I have no idea why they are like this. Perhaps they are annoyed at the number of people who turn up with minor ailments, no ID, no money, no insurance details, perceived pressure to "process" people quickly ... I am sure they could tell you why. Every presentation is different and every staff member has their own ways and reasons.

I think the public hospitals do a very good job generally. With the public money provided. Yes there is a lot of room for improvement, but that has to come from an organisational culture change.

Oh and I know this is a long post, but I believe there are 2 waiting lists in public hospitals that I have seen. Those that are urgent and possibly life threatening, and then everything else. The urgent matters get seen to quite quickly. Everything else non-urgent (medically) can wait, even if the pain or discomfort is high, with the exception of young children. They get seen quite quickly generally.

One more thing ... One thing Finland and AU have in common ... strong propaganda.

[network_engineer]

One more thing ... One thing Finland and AU have in common ... strong propaganda.

That's very interesting to hear, I guess we could believe that. Countries globally, MAGA, India Shining, Suomi on paras maa! What the catch line in Australia?

To me, these are rhetorics by the power grabbing politically inclined. Not wanting to digress from the topic, but still, for Finland, come to think of it (If I am right) 1/5 the population voted for living off others' taxes (SDP), and another 1/5 voted far-right, i.e. the anti-immigrant parties. Speaks a lot about the nation!

Now this piece of news might just be a horrible combination - praying and hoping not!

Far left on taxes, greens bring us down to walking on foot, centre takes away as much benefits as possible (in reference to the active model). Now SDP guys did condemn that but now in bed together. Yikes! The things they'll do for money and power.

PS. No, it has nothing to do with the original topic!