A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

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Upphew
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Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

Post by Upphew » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:00 am

kiran123 wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:40 am
Another interesting incident. Got my wisdom teeth aching . it got infected . Went to public heathcare as its not covered by work . the doctor said i need to get an x ray ist . went to x ray place and haha i was told person taking x ray is on summer holiday so i should wait like 1 month. notjing could be done . teeth was givibg me bad time . rushed to private dental place . within few hours the took the new tooth out . and relieved and after 2 days back to work. Paid 200 euro. public services .God save them
At least here the dentist have done the xrays. I can't remember how my wisdom tooth removal went (re xrays). I do remember that the dentist who removed the stitches gave a whiff of old booze though.

That 200 for wisdom tooth removal at private sounds cheap. Surely kela pays some, but still I would have expected it to cost more.


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Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

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undertakerfreak
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Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

Post by undertakerfreak » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:04 pm

jarikaija wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:42 am
Finnish "free" (what it is not!) healt care is a big joke!
Move to the US, get sick, require weeks of hospitalisation and medication, look at the bill they send you, then you'll truly know how much of a joke a nation's healthcare system can be. Hell, just go to the ER for a broken toe and wait for the reaming that awaits you in the mail. We are all spoiled here with one of the best healthcare systems in the world. Don't let one guy's whining let you forget that.

I was charged over a grand USD for a 15-minute ambulance ride. I still had to wait three hours to be seen by a doctor. Let that sink in.


okonri
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Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

Post by okonri » Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:58 pm

undertakerfreak wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:04 pm
jarikaija wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:42 am
Finnish "free" (what it is not!) healt care is a big joke!
Move to the US, get sick, require weeks of hospitalisation and medication, look at the bill they send you, then you'll truly know how much of a joke a nation's healthcare system can be. Hell, just go to the ER for a broken toe and wait for the reaming that awaits you in the mail. We are all spoiled here with one of the best healthcare systems in the world. Don't let one guy's whining let you forget that.

I was charged over a grand USD for a 15-minute ambulance ride. I still had to wait three hours to be seen by a doctor. Let that sink in.
Best healthcare systems my foot. Almost every foreigner in finland has a similar story, so stop this insincere defense of a decaying system. Denial leads a nation nowhere.


okonri
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Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

Post by okonri » Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:02 pm

Upphew wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:54 am
kiran123 wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:30 am
isnot antibiotics supposed to cure if there was any virus.
No. Antibiotics work against bacteria. Antivirals are whole different stuff. HIV wouldn't have been that big deal if penicillin would have worked...
That's your only take-away from that story? Show some compassion.


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wolf80
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Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

Post by wolf80 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:20 am

okonri wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:58 pm

Best healthcare systems my foot. Almost every foreigner in finland has a similar story, so stop this insincere defense of a decaying system. Denial leads a nation nowhere.
And everybody has enough stories about the healthcare system in their home country. So what? Nobody said things were perfect here.

Compare what you have to pay for health care with the service provided, and you will see that Finland scored pretty high on the scale. Sure, things could be better - but are you prepared to pay higher taxes for it?


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wolf80
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Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

Post by wolf80 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:26 am

okonri wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:02 pm
Upphew wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:54 am
kiran123 wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:30 am
isnot antibiotics supposed to cure if there was any virus.
No. Antibiotics work against bacteria. Antivirals are whole different stuff. HIV wouldn't have been that big deal if penicillin would have worked...
That's your only take-away from that story? Show some compassion.
What I take away from it is that the poster does not even recall what he was prescribed the antibiotics for. How accurate and trustworthy is the other information given then?


Upphew
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Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

Post by Upphew » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:58 pm

okonri wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:02 pm
That's your only take-away from that story? Show some compassion.
Show some tits.

That wasn't my only take-away from that story. That was my observation that kiran123 had wrong impression what antibiotics do.

Also: who would have first guessed a stomach problem from sore throat? Crappy doctors? I'd like to see my face if I go to doctor and tell that I have sore throat and she will start by giving me a jar and orders to collect some !"#¤%.
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network_engineer
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Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

Post by network_engineer » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:47 pm

Hi all,

So, here's my personal experience.

Long story short: I was already told that based on various tests, I in line for an invasive coronary imaging procedure. I had some chest pains after clearing the snow, and similar pains at intervals. I could not distinguish between muscle pain and heart issues, but nevertheless, having cleared quite some snow, I felt something. Next day again, this time at work after some moving, same thing, took my usual medication, did not help much, hard pain. Called the nurse, based on symptoms, she connected directly to emergency services.

Ambulance showed up in about 5 minutes. Was taken to the central hospital, put in care.

My experience:

The care levels are very good. The nurses very caring, and so was the doctor on duty.

The medical care is simply outstanding. The doctor/ surgeon that did the procedure was skilled, and the movements very well choreographed. No room for errors, and reassuring.

The administrative process needs improvement - big time. I.e. while I was there from Friday onwards, I was told the procedure would be the next day, i.e. Saturday, and the "next day" kept going on until Thursday, when earlier I felt the same pains. So, they checked me on Thursday. Before that they could not answer a simple question: This day? This week? This month? This year?

As I hear, this is not a seasonal issue, but round the clock. For sure, they must and rightfully so take emergencies and acute cases first; however, for those in care there also has to be a timeline - an SLA if you will! Time to start asking: Who is responsible? Very subtly, I popped a question: I hear that a political person had similar issues ... I don't see him in the ward, or did he manage to get "ahead" of the line!

My own perception is that they are heavily underfunded, and under-resourced and that is a political issue. Of course, when the taxis and the renovation of the building costs 300 million! Need I say more! Won't be polite then!

Summa summarum Having been in IT, let me describe it this way:
  • Tier III (Tier 3) is among the best. No doubts, and they are constantly improving. Cutting edge.
  • The Tier I (Tier 1) i.e. GP is generally weak unless they are in the private hospitals! (How do I know that? Am a hospital kid, mom worked there. My younger sister is 24 now, and she turned into a full-fledged GP at 23. The other sister of mine is a Senior Anesthesiologist, she was 29 or so! We've got most specialities in house. And woefully speaking: I sometimes think I do the computers :twisted: ) The Tier I here at 40+ generally may show a lack of enthusiasm and don't have a speciality! BIG weakness. And I've often heard the term, the "burana doc" Got a headache/ Got a diarrhea/ Broken head/ Teeth hurting/ Missing legs = Take a burana! This needs to change.
And sure enough, there are ripple effects, like what the OP posts.

The other side of the story is this. While I personally sometimes think that the best quality of healthcare (including pharmacy) is in the US (and nearly 95% of my family is in medical services there), this is the horrible other side of that system!

The biggest fear is that humans, especially the political species have a tendency to run on emotions and false charisma! My fear is that the implementation of "sote" etc. will create more havoc than prove beneficial. I.e. the medicare/ medicaid kind of setup! If at all, I'd say your problem with the setup is never the person you face. Take a look at the leadership. And hold them accountable.


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agroot
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Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

Post by agroot » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:21 pm

network_engineer wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:47 pm
Summa summarum Having been in IT, let me describe it this way:
  • Tier III (Tier 3) is among the best. No doubts, and they are constantly improving. Cutting edge.
  • The Tier I (Tier 1) i.e. GP is generally weak unless they are in the private hospitals! (How do I know that? Am a hospital kid, mom worked there. My younger sister is 24 now, and she turned into a full-fledged GP at 23.


what do Tier 1 and Tier 3 mean?? Seriousness of conditions?


Upphew
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Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

Post by Upphew » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:18 am

agroot wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:21 pm
network_engineer wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:47 pm
Summa summarum Having been in IT, let me describe it this way:
  • Tier III (Tier 3) is among the best. No doubts, and they are constantly improving. Cutting edge.
  • The Tier I (Tier 1) i.e. GP is generally weak unless they are in the private hospitals! (How do I know that? Am a hospital kid, mom worked there. My younger sister is 24 now, and she turned into a full-fledged GP at 23.


what do Tier 1 and Tier 3 mean?? Seriousness of conditions?

Reference is to IT support. The first call goes to tier 1 which refers you to next tier if they can't help you ("have you tried to reboot? I can reset your password").
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network_engineer
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Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

Post by network_engineer » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:31 am

Thanks Upphew!

Tier I (Tier 1) is your first step (alternatively the lowest possible qualification before you can practice medicine). I.e. your GP. They mostly have one of these degrees, e.g. an MBBS, MB ChB, MB BCh, MB BChir (Cantab), BM BCh (Oxon), BMBS. Referred to as a Burana doc. Burana being a panacea for all ills.

The challenge largely stems if they do NOT get an advanced medicine or care degree. And after 20+ years, they fully stagnate, looking at patients only for basic ills, such as a flu, ear infection, stomach flu etc. Of course, I am generalising a bit too much! They are needed, and some are very good. In the public healthcare sector however, they could do better (as in the private sector), where GPs (yleislääkäri) often have a specialisation as well.

Tier III (Tier 3) then is the super specialist, e.g. a cardiothoracic or a neuro surgeon.

So, specialised healthcare is very good, the first line GP needs lots of improvement. As such I doubt in their current stage if they bring adequate value to patients. Again, I am generalising, there are some very good GPs that look at the overall health of the patient.

As regards the OP post, he mostly likely encountered the first line (Tier 1), as far as I see that is almost always a waste! For sure, the OP may have had little seriousness of the symptoms. But these days even symptoms seemingly simple, e.g. of flu or stomach-ache may actually be far worse, e.g. a lung infection or even gastric cancer.

The situation has changed, and we are often stuck with the rut! The Tier 1 (firstline/ GP) in the US are significantly better in my opinion.


undertakerfreak
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Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

Post by undertakerfreak » Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:25 pm

okonri wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:58 pm
undertakerfreak wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:04 pm
jarikaija wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:42 am
Finnish "free" (what it is not!) healt care is a big joke!
Move to the US, get sick, require weeks of hospitalisation and medication, look at the bill they send you, then you'll truly know how much of a joke a nation's healthcare system can be. Hell, just go to the ER for a broken toe and wait for the reaming that awaits you in the mail. We are all spoiled here with one of the best healthcare systems in the world. Don't let one guy's whining let you forget that.

I was charged over a grand USD for a 15-minute ambulance ride. I still had to wait three hours to be seen by a doctor. Let that sink in.
Best healthcare systems my foot. Almost every foreigner in finland has a similar story, so stop this insincere defense of a decaying system. Denial leads a nation nowhere.
I said ONE of the best, and that's backed up with these things called "statistics."

Talk about insincere AND ignorant.


KattyTheKitty
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Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

Post by KattyTheKitty » Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:37 am

I have an odd case (in my opinion) . So I'm 36 weeks++ pregnant now. when I moved to Finland I was about 12 weeks pregnant (It was in the beginning of september 2018). I got my RP decision in october 2018, so during the waiting time for RP decision, we went to neuvola and public hospital. Maistraati told me to register my municipality of residence after the RP decision has been made. So then, I registered myself in the beginning of november and also I applied for Kela after that and got the decision in december 2018. After that, I received 2 payment invoice from the public hospital for my ultrasound, and total cost was 220 euro. My husband made a call to kela and said they weren't responsible for that since It was public hospital, so my husband called the hospital, and they said that It was because my residency is officially registered in November 2018 so It wasn't free for me since the ultrasound was taken before it. So, we were okay with it and paid it. But then, neuvola booked a time for me to go for the 3rd ultrasound in February 2019 because my belly size wasn't looking good, and they still sent me an invoice payment for that!! What is happening here? Anyone got a any clue?? I'm due very soon in March. I'm just hoping that they won't charge me for the delivery!! It stresses me out.


NeverTooNorth
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Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

Post by NeverTooNorth » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:46 pm

KattyTheKitty wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:37 am
I have an odd case (in my opinion) . So I'm 36 weeks++ pregnant now. when I moved to Finland I was about 12 weeks pregnant (It was in the beginning of september 2018). I got my RP decision in october 2018, so during the waiting time for RP decision, we went to neuvola and public hospital. Maistraati told me to register my municipality of residence after the RP decision has been made. So then, I registered myself in the beginning of november and also I applied for Kela after that and got the decision in december 2018. After that, I received 2 payment invoice from the public hospital for my ultrasound, and total cost was 220 euro. My husband made a call to kela and said they weren't responsible for that since It was public hospital, so my husband called the hospital, and they said that It was because my residency is officially registered in November 2018 so It wasn't free for me since the ultrasound was taken before it. So, we were okay with it and paid it. But then, neuvola booked a time for me to go for the 3rd ultrasound in February 2019 because my belly size wasn't looking good, and they still sent me an invoice payment for that!! What is happening here? Anyone got a any clue?? I'm due very soon in March. I'm just hoping that they won't charge me for the delivery!! It stresses me out.
What was the price for the last 3rd ultra? My experience is that any extra investigations and doctor visits out of those scheduled for average pregnancy are charged, but the amount shouldn't be high. Delivery is charged based on how many days you stay in the hospital and this includes meals. This is my experience (two children).


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network_engineer
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Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

Post by network_engineer » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:08 pm

KattyTheKitty wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:37 am
I have an odd case (in my opinion) . So I'm 36 weeks++ pregnant now. when I moved to Finland I was about 12 weeks pregnant (It was in the beginning of september 2018). I got my RP decision in october 2018, so during the waiting time for RP decision, we went to neuvola and public hospital. Maistraati told me to register my municipality of residence after the RP decision has been made. So then, I registered myself in the beginning of november and also I applied for Kela after that and got the decision in december 2018. After that, I received 2 payment invoice from the public hospital for my ultrasound, and total cost was 220 euro. My husband made a call to kela and said they weren't responsible for that since It was public hospital, so my husband called the hospital, and they said that It was because my residency is officially registered in November 2018 so It wasn't free for me since the ultrasound was taken before it. So, we were okay with it and paid it. But then, neuvola booked a time for me to go for the 3rd ultrasound in February 2019 because my belly size wasn't looking good, and they still sent me an invoice payment for that!! What is happening here? Anyone got a any clue?? I'm due very soon in March. I'm just hoping that they won't charge me for the delivery!! It stresses me out.
Somethings not right it seems. If you are in the capital region, can you call the HUS laskutus (billing) and then ask them if you are correctly registered, and if your entitlements are also correct? Even better, send an email to them. Ask them why you have this amount. All ultrasound, neuvola vists, doctor check-ups should be free AFAIR (but it's been very long since we were there).

Also, if your husband is a Finn, please ask him to check the "maksukatto"

PS. If things have indeed changed, and they are now charging for it, is it any wonder that the population is constantly frustrated and the population counts are falling! Thanks to the l1d!oTs in their seats!


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