A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

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KattyTheKitty
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Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

Post by KattyTheKitty » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:14 pm

NeverTooNorth wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:46 pm
KattyTheKitty wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:37 am
I have an odd case (in my opinion) . So I'm 36 weeks++ pregnant now. when I moved to Finland I was about 12 weeks pregnant (It was in the beginning of september 2018). I got my RP decision in october 2018, so during the waiting time for RP decision, we went to neuvola and public hospital. Maistraati told me to register my municipality of residence after the RP decision has been made. So then, I registered myself in the beginning of november and also I applied for Kela after that and got the decision in december 2018. After that, I received 2 payment invoice from the public hospital for my ultrasound, and total cost was 220 euro. My husband made a call to kela and said they weren't responsible for that since It was public hospital, so my husband called the hospital, and they said that It was because my residency is officially registered in November 2018 so It wasn't free for me since the ultrasound was taken before it. So, we were okay with it and paid it. But then, neuvola booked a time for me to go for the 3rd ultrasound in February 2019 because my belly size wasn't looking good, and they still sent me an invoice payment for that!! What is happening here? Anyone got a any clue?? I'm due very soon in March. I'm just hoping that they won't charge me for the delivery!! It stresses me out.
What was the price for the last 3rd ultra? My experience is that any extra investigations and doctor visits out of those scheduled for average pregnancy are charged, but the amount shouldn't be high. Delivery is charged based on how many days you stay in the hospital and this includes meals. This is my experience (two children).

The price is not that much only 41 euro, but thanks for your information anyway, now I understand it. Yeah I know that they will charge you based on your stay at the hospital during the delivery. I'm due very soon with a baby girl. Hopefully everything will be okay. 😊



Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

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KattyTheKitty
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:28 pm

Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

Post by KattyTheKitty » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:26 pm

network_engineer wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:08 pm
KattyTheKitty wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:37 am
I have an odd case (in my opinion) . So I'm 36 weeks++ pregnant now. when I moved to Finland I was about 12 weeks pregnant (It was in the beginning of september 2018). I got my RP decision in october 2018, so during the waiting time for RP decision, we went to neuvola and public hospital. Maistraati told me to register my municipality of residence after the RP decision has been made. So then, I registered myself in the beginning of november and also I applied for Kela after that and got the decision in december 2018. After that, I received 2 payment invoice from the public hospital for my ultrasound, and total cost was 220 euro. My husband made a call to kela and said they weren't responsible for that since It was public hospital, so my husband called the hospital, and they said that It was because my residency is officially registered in November 2018 so It wasn't free for me since the ultrasound was taken before it. So, we were okay with it and paid it. But then, neuvola booked a time for me to go for the 3rd ultrasound in February 2019 because my belly size wasn't looking good, and they still sent me an invoice payment for that!! What is happening here? Anyone got a any clue?? I'm due very soon in March. I'm just hoping that they won't charge me for the delivery!! It stresses me out.
Somethings not right it seems. If you are in the capital region, can you call the HUS laskutus (billing) and then ask them if you are correctly registered, and if your entitlements are also correct? Even better, send an email to them. Ask them why you have this amount. All ultrasound, neuvola vists, doctor check-ups should be free AFAIR (but it's been very long since we were there).

Also, if your husband is a Finn, please ask him to check the "maksukatto"

PS. If things have indeed changed, and they are now charging for it, is it any wonder that the population is constantly frustrated and the population counts are falling! Thanks to the l1d!oTs in their seats!
We have been charged for all those visits and ultrasounds. It cost so much that my husband barely have any savings and I can't help him since I don't have a job yet. We tried to get an insurance for the baby and me before the delivery, and the company rejected it just because I can't speak suomi (yet). Ofc I can't, I have just moved here. Our money is not that great, and I don't have insurance at all for the baby and me. If something happens, we have to pay it, out of our pocket. That's why I'm hoping everything will go well without any problems.


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network_engineer
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Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

Post by network_engineer » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:53 pm

KattyTheKitty wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:26 pm
We have been charged for all those visits and ultrasounds.
That was perhaps because you were not registered in the system. If your residence entry into the system was delayed due to their processes, but you had registered in time, you can call the HUS laskutus, and they can try and help (if you have sufficient proof). I don't know about the recent times, earlier when you were to the maistraatti, they gave you a slip of confirmation when you registered.

However, if your residence was registered later than when the process was done, they would bill you as an non-resident.
KattyTheKitty wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:26 pm
We tried to get an insurance for the baby and me before the delivery, and the company rejected it just because I can't speak suomi (yet).
Merely because you don't speak the language is NOT a reason to deny you insurance AFAIK. There are many foreigners here, I know a lot of them that come for work, and then have children, they have sickness insurances. Do call the different insurances companies, the google term to use is "vauvavakuutus" or "vakuutus syntymättömälle lapselle"

Baby sickness insurance is highly recommended, else if the baby falls sick it could stress you financially. Put this way, a simple blood test that is about 12e in the public healthcare system is about 80e in a private hospital.

KattyTheKitty wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:26 pm
If something happens, we have to pay it, out of our pocket. That's why I'm hoping everything will go well without any problems.
Please call and determine your access by email the HUS laskutus, they are quite helpful.


KattyTheKitty
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Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

Post by KattyTheKitty » Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:48 pm

network_engineer wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:53 pm
KattyTheKitty wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:26 pm
We have been charged for all those visits and ultrasounds.
That was perhaps because you were not registered in the system. If your residence entry into the system was delayed due to their processes, but you had registered in time, you can call the HUS laskutus, and they can try and help (if you have sufficient proof). I don't know about the recent times, earlier when you were to the maistraatti, they gave you a slip of confirmation when you registered.

However, if your residence was registered later than when the process was done, they would bill you as an non-resident.
KattyTheKitty wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:26 pm
We tried to get an insurance for the baby and me before the delivery, and the company rejected it just because I can't speak suomi (yet).
Merely because you don't speak the language is NOT a reason to deny you insurance AFAIK. There are many foreigners here, I know a lot of them that come for work, and then have children, they have sickness insurances. Do call the different insurances companies, the google term to use is "vauvavakuutus" or "vakuutus syntymättömälle lapselle"

Baby sickness insurance is highly recommended, else if the baby falls sick it could stress you financially. Put this way, a simple blood test that is about 12e in the public healthcare system is about 80e in a private hospital.

KattyTheKitty wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:26 pm
If something happens, we have to pay it, out of our pocket. That's why I'm hoping everything will go well without any problems.
Please call and determine your access by email the HUS laskutus, they are quite helpful.


Hi, thank you so much for your help. I will tell my husband about this. My husband is a finnish, but we both don't know how things actually work here I guess. Hope this will help a lil bit with our situation. Kiitoksia.


KattyTheKitty
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:28 pm

Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

Post by KattyTheKitty » Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:48 pm

network_engineer wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:53 pm
KattyTheKitty wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:26 pm
We have been charged for all those visits and ultrasounds.
That was perhaps because you were not registered in the system. If your residence entry into the system was delayed due to their processes, but you had registered in time, you can call the HUS laskutus, and they can try and help (if you have sufficient proof). I don't know about the recent times, earlier when you were to the maistraatti, they gave you a slip of confirmation when you registered.

However, if your residence was registered later than when the process was done, they would bill you as an non-resident.
KattyTheKitty wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:26 pm
We tried to get an insurance for the baby and me before the delivery, and the company rejected it just because I can't speak suomi (yet).
Merely because you don't speak the language is NOT a reason to deny you insurance AFAIK. There are many foreigners here, I know a lot of them that come for work, and then have children, they have sickness insurances. Do call the different insurances companies, the google term to use is "vauvavakuutus" or "vakuutus syntymättömälle lapselle"

Baby sickness insurance is highly recommended, else if the baby falls sick it could stress you financially. Put this way, a simple blood test that is about 12e in the public healthcare system is about 80e in a private hospital.

KattyTheKitty wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:26 pm
If something happens, we have to pay it, out of our pocket. That's why I'm hoping everything will go well without any problems.
Please call and determine your access by email the HUS laskutus, they are quite helpful.


Hi, thank you so much for your help. I will tell my husband about this. My husband is a finnish, but we both don't know how things actually work here I guess. Hope this will help a lil bit with our situation. Kiitoksia.


Upphew
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Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

Post by Upphew » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:11 am

http://google.com http://translate.google.com http://urbandictionary.com
Visa is for visiting, Residence Permit for residing.


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network_engineer
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Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

Post by network_engineer » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:35 am

Upphew wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:11 am
Fake news? https://www.cbsnews.com/news/why-finlan ... d=64376255
No. Not necessarily. But it is NOT an absolute either. As far as I remember, Neuvola visits were free. As were the ultrasounds (but I need to check from my wife), it may have been free, or was it 32,70e per visit * 3 = 98,10e Of course, if it is a caesarean and you need extra hospital stays, then it might cost (I am not sure about this).

The media always put a spin on it. Since it was CBS news (US), ask the public at large if they'd like pre-natal care (until birth) at 60$ in exchange for the taxation rates in Finland. You can guess what the responses will be.

My opinion is that the US medical system and quality is fine, it is the legal, insurance, and medical training systems that are broken. E.g.
  • My aunt pays ~800$ for herself through the hospital programme where she worked at senior levels. When costs are paid by the insurance, the sky's the limit for billing.
  • Add to that the legal setup where a cuppa coffee can bring in a million (i.e. a very wide definition of medical malpractice and high payouts). Put in perspective, do you remember there was a mix-up of intravenous needles at a HUS lab a year or so ago when needles were re-used? A mess-up like that would have landed up with millions in payout to each individual.
  • The medical school fees are just plain outrageous, the extra-curricular activities are also funded through the school fees - ever wonder where the school swimming pools and pool parties come from.
  • When the students leave they leave with a mountain of debt that also must be repaid!
All these in conjuction messes things up!

In Finland as well, I assume that for majority of the private healthcare providers, the bill is picked up by the insurance companies, or the työterveys, i.e. not the individual. Hence, sky's the limit. Or else, how can one justify a CRP test for 85e + toimisto maksu ... where in HUS it costs 12e!


Upphew
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Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

Post by Upphew » Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:29 pm

Imho Finnish health care (terveydenhuolto) is not at the same level at all as medical treatment (sairaanhoito). Former would need more "doctors" to see people, listen to them and give tea & sympathy and the required Burana. Now people are annoyed while they wait for hours to meet real doctor and only get the Burana. Too much time to spend online steaming in facebook and reading webmd.

Then again I've seen how much people appreciate the preventative care... losing weight, quitting tobacco... nah, too much effort and then in the 50s those people eat up the real doctors time while someone in need of doctor who listens taps their phone angrily in the lobby.
http://google.com http://translate.google.com http://urbandictionary.com
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network_engineer
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Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

Post by network_engineer » Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:41 pm

Upphew wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:29 pm
... (terveydenhuolto) is not at the same level at all as medical treatment (sairaanhoito). Former would need more "doctors" to see people, listen to them and give tea & sympathy and the required Burana....Now people are annoyed while they wait for hours to meet real doctor
:) Sure, that too!
Upphew wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:29 pm
and only get the Burana
Yeah, that could be one factor as well. But there's also too many cases I've heard of people getting wrongly diagnosed/ delayed diagnosis leading to death.

E.g. Having read quite a lot, I now opine (despite not being a medical professional :) ) that stomach/ gastric, pancreatic cancers etc. are sometimes symptomless, unlike some of the others. These test should be then conducted at regular intervals for almost all, especially 30s and over. E.g. ultra-sound machines and similar imaging machines don't cost per use, they are often just lying there in the room waiting for a patient.

I like what they've done in some of the Asian countries, and that makes sense to me (both from a fiscal ROI and from the healthcare point of view). They pay in millions e.g. for the MRI machines and it cannot be shut down after a days work. So, keep them in use (operating) around the clock with people on shifts and about nominal charges.

They started that in some cities as well in Finland, if you google "magneettikuvaus ilman lähetettä", you'll see that. The pace of the changes is quite slow, and quite often the common man pays the price for the delays.

Another reason why I am so against people with hampered cognitive skills leading the country! These call for cultural changes effectuated through leadership!


FinnGuyHelsinki
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Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

Post by FinnGuyHelsinki » Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:51 pm

network_engineer wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:35 am
In Finland as well, I assume that for majority of the private healthcare providers, the bill is picked up by the insurance companies, or the työterveys, i.e. not the individual. Hence, sky's the limit. Or else, how can one justify a CRP test for 85e + toimisto maksu ... where in HUS it costs 12e!
Obviously the 12€ is heavily subsidized, a company would make comparatively a huge loss charging that little (considering wages, facilities, the test itself, etc. etc.).


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network_engineer
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Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

Post by network_engineer » Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:19 pm

FinnGuyHelsinki wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:51 pm
the 12€ is heavily subsidized, a company would make comparatively a huge loss charging that little (considering wages, facilities, the test itself, etc. etc.).
Not really. The actual cost e.g. of the CRP test strips as an example for 500 pack for ~0,90e.
If bought from India (one of the largest in the world for pharmaceutical exports, 2017), then it is ~0,80e, but depending on the sensitivity of the assay may be as high as 1,40e. Sometimes more.

Related to this, my view of the VAT system is also that it is corrupt. My opinion (and may not even be worth the bytes here) is that VAT addition should be based on the value added to the product, with limited sourcing and little of stocking value. E.g. India capped the value of the coronary stents. The prices earlier (converted to EUR) ranged from 160e to ~4000e per stent in private practices (despite being at similar qualities). The government capped the prices. Merely stocking a stent does not add to its value.

I.e. hospital should be charging for medical services (knowledge and skills core to its domain and to a degree functioning overall (without overlaps). Not products that they have merely bought and re-sold can be claimed as value-added!

Of course, you could argue that this corruption extends beyond hospitals and you'd be correct. That however, does not make it right, IMVHO! I do that with the oil changes. I buy the exact same oil and take it with me, and tell them to use my oil, or bill me at retail prices. Of recent, they tried to bill me 198e for the oil, when I had actually told them to use the new sealed oil in the trunk - they forgot and they used their oil. I stood my ground and they took it off the bill. The difference? I bought the exact same oil [not similar but identical, i.e. same manufacturer, rating, marks everyting] for 39,90!


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Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

Post by FinnGuyHelsinki » Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:54 pm

network_engineer wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:19 pm
FinnGuyHelsinki wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:51 pm
the 12€ is heavily subsidized, a company would make comparatively a huge loss charging that little (considering wages, facilities, the test itself, etc. etc.).
Not really. The actual cost e.g. of the CRP test strips as an example for 500 pack for ~0,90e.
If bought from India (one of the largest in the world for pharmaceutical exports, 2017), then it is ~0,80e, but depending on the sensitivity of the assay may be as high as 1,40e. Sometimes more.
There's a massive overhead of having the people and the place to do the test in the first place. Even if they would get the tests themselves for free, still doing the test at 12€ each would be at a loss. Also, they're not doing just those tests one after another, one can't count "x amount of tests per hour..." or similar.


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network_engineer
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Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

Post by network_engineer » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:26 am

FinnGuyHelsinki wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:54 pm
massive overhead of having the people and the place to do the test in the first place
There are couple of private testing services in Finland (i.e. *for profit facilities*). Their prices are *much* cheaper. E.g. a CRP, Hemoglobin, and a few other markers are 36e or so. Same test is about 120e in the private practices. How do you account for that?

For sure, the public health services may be heavily subsidized and because of the volume, and I am not discounting that. And no, they may not be doing a specific test one after the other, but if you invest in a pack of 5000 strips, they are distributed among various health centres.

My approach is this: Even if I am at one of the private clinics, I ask for a laboratory referral, and get the tests done at the outside facility. Not many people know you can do it. I insist, have the results in kanta.fi and then use those values in the doctor's follow-up call.

As with the previous example, if an MRI machine is purchased at a couple of million, there will be a need to charge high to run it at low utlisation rates vs. charge low with high utilisation rates. This has some benefits, e.g. higher name and brand recognition, higher levels of revenue (at least at Asian population levels, including those that come from external referrals). In other words, my view is this: Keep the prices reasonable and more people will come. Why else do you think a lot of the health services have available appointments within the hour?


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network_engineer
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Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

Post by network_engineer » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:59 am

PS. I just remembered another issue, a couple of years ago. Tertiary (specialised healthcare) may be good here; however, at one point I asked a GP with a supposed well, I'll say "interest" in gastroenterology on the long term risk for me since I was using PPI medications. He had no clue what I was talking about. And I got the first hint from my aunt, now about 70 and retired when I told her I was taking it!

Take about competence! For sure, it may be just one-odd case. :?


NeverTooNorth
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Re: A very dissapointing public healthcare visit! Is this the standard of public health care service?

Post by NeverTooNorth » Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:36 am

KattyTheKitty wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:14 pm
The price is not that much only 41 euro, but thanks for your information anyway, now I understand it. Yeah I know that they will charge you based on your stay at the hospital during the delivery. I'm due very soon with a baby girl. Hopefully everything will be okay. 😊
Then it is just normal price for an extra ultra visit. And it means that you're already in the system now.
About insurance - I have insurance for both children and by the time I bought at least first one I didn't speak any Finnish. My insurance company is Pohjola. Probably you should ask in several companies, not stopping after getting first refusal.
Anyway I wish you easy delivery and all the best for you and your baby.
Upphew wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:11 am
Fake news? https://www.cbsnews.com/news/why-finlan ... d=64376255
If everything goes smooth it can be about this. All the Neuvola visits and PLANNED ultrasounds and tests as well as PLANNED doctor visits are free. All the EXTRA should be payed, but not that much. Then just couple of days in a hospital and that's it.
In both my cases it costed much more, but I still think it's very affordable for the quality of care I got.


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