Max age for conscription?

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justaguy
Posts: 197
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:48 pm

Max age for conscription?

Post by justaguy » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:07 pm

tl;dr at the bottom

Hi folks. I've looked around but everyone has different opinions on this so I thought I would ask here.

I'm going to apply for citizenship soon. I've lived in Finland for just under 10 years, so actually now almost all of my adult life here excluding short trips overseas.

I've had the right to apply for citizenship at the earliest 4 years after being here when I was married (now divorced). However I've waited to apply for citizenship because I didn't feel the need and/or mostly because of the conscription requirement. I've either been working or studying the entire time I've lived here. Now I am doing my second Master's Degree whilst working.

My question is what is the max age that they will conscript you after you are given citizenship? I've conflicting reports that it is 29 and others say that it is 30. Some say that you are legally required to go no matter your age, but they won't call you after age 30.

I don't wish to put my entire life on hold, leave my girlfriend and my job and studies just to go crawl through mud and be barked at for 9 months. I know there's the alternative of doing 'civil service' but as I have been had explained, it's also full-time and I wouldn't be able to work and study during the time.

I realise that conscription is meant to be a mandatory part of being a citizen for anyone who isn't quite literally disabled but I believe that I've more than put into the country in other means. Besides, I'd do more for the economy by being able to work and study without interruption anyway so I can finally open my business. I'm honestly happy for those who went and didn't care for the experience, but for me personally it would set me back more than just 9 months in my studies and give my girlfriend and I serious financial troubles.

So tl;dr does anyone here know the definitive age/time deadline in which you won't be conscripted into the army after getting citizenship?

Thanks



Max age for conscription?

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Upphew
Posts: 10657
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Location: Lappeenranta

Re: Max age for conscription?

Post by Upphew » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:07 pm

justaguy wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:07 pm
tl;dr at the bottom

Hi folks. I've looked around but everyone has different opinions on this so I thought I would ask here.

I'm going to apply for citizenship soon. I've lived in Finland for just under 10 years, so actually now almost all of my adult life here excluding short trips overseas.

I've had the right to apply for citizenship at the earliest 4 years after being here when I was married (now divorced). However I've waited to apply for citizenship because I didn't feel the need and/or mostly because of the conscription requirement. I've either been working or studying the entire time I've lived here. Now I am doing my second Master's Degree whilst working.

My question is what is the max age that they will conscript you after you are given citizenship? I've conflicting reports that it is 29 and others say that it is 30. Some say that you are legally required to go no matter your age, but they won't call you after age 30.

I don't wish to put my entire life on hold, leave my girlfriend and my job and studies just to go crawl through mud and be barked at for 9 months. I know there's the alternative of doing 'civil service' but as I have been had explained, it's also full-time and I wouldn't be able to work and study during the time.

I realise that conscription is meant to be a mandatory part of being a citizen for anyone who isn't quite literally disabled but I believe that I've more than put into the country in other means. Besides, I'd do more for the economy by being able to work and study without interruption anyway so I can finally open my business. I'm honestly happy for those who went and didn't care for the experience, but for me personally it would set me back more than just 9 months in my studies and give my girlfriend and I serious financial troubles.

So tl;dr does anyone here know the definitive age/time deadline in which you won't be conscripted into the army after getting citizenship?

Thanks
The year that you have your 30th birthday. After that you won't do your military service.
https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/2007/20071438
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justaguy
Posts: 197
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Re: Max age for conscription?

Post by justaguy » Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:08 pm

Thanks but that's a bit confusing still. I could still get conscripted any time in the year I turn 30 so long as I got awarded citizenship in that year or before then?

Cheers.

Upphew
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Re: Max age for conscription?

Post by Upphew » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:07 am

justaguy wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:08 pm
Thanks but that's a bit confusing still. I could still get conscripted any time in the year I turn 30 so long as I got awarded citizenship in that year or before then?

Cheers.
Yes.
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betelgeuse
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Re: Max age for conscription?

Post by betelgeuse » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:48 am

Upphew wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:07 am
justaguy wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:08 pm
Thanks but that's a bit confusing still. I could still get conscripted any time in the year I turn 30 so long as I got awarded citizenship in that year or before then?

Cheers.
Yes.
My reading of the law was that the year you turn 29 is the last.

Upphew
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Re: Max age for conscription?

Post by Upphew » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:04 pm

betelgeuse wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:48 am
Upphew wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:07 am
justaguy wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:08 pm
Thanks but that's a bit confusing still. I could still get conscripted any time in the year I turn 30 so long as I got awarded citizenship in that year or before then?

Cheers.
Yes.
My reading of the law was that the year you turn 29 is the last.
My reading was based on "Velvollisuus suorittaa varusmiespalvelusta rauhan aikana päättyy sen vuoden lopussa, jona asevelvollinen täyttää 30 vuotta."
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betelgeuse
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Re: Max age for conscription?

Post by betelgeuse » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:52 pm

Upphew wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:04 pm
betelgeuse wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:48 am
Upphew wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:07 am

Yes.
My reading of the law was that the year you turn 29 is the last.
My reading was based on "Velvollisuus suorittaa varusmiespalvelusta rauhan aikana päättyy sen vuoden lopussa, jona asevelvollinen täyttää 30 vuotta."
Yes but you need to go through the draft to actually serve. I looked at this: ”on jäänyt edellisiin kutsuntoihin saapumatta, jollei hänen palveluskelpoisuudestaan ole vielä erikseen tehty päätöstä eikä hän ole täyttänyt tai sinä vuonna täytä 30 vuotta; ”

betelgeuse
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Re: Max age for conscription?

Post by betelgeuse » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:56 pm

betelgeuse wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:52 pm
Upphew wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:04 pm
betelgeuse wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:48 am


My reading of the law was that the year you turn 29 is the last.
My reading was based on "Velvollisuus suorittaa varusmiespalvelusta rauhan aikana päättyy sen vuoden lopussa, jona asevelvollinen täyttää 30 vuotta."
Yes but you need to go through the draft to actually serve. I looked at this: ”on jäänyt edellisiin kutsuntoihin saapumatta, jollei hänen palveluskelpoisuudestaan ole vielä erikseen tehty päätöstä eikä hän ole täyttänyt tai sinä vuonna täytä 30 vuotta; ”
Hmm actually later it says the text I quoted does not apply to naturalized citizens. It still stands that there needs to be enough time to serve before becoming too old.

justaguy
Posts: 197
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Re: Max age for conscription?

Post by justaguy » Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:38 pm

Sorry for the late follow up but what does this mean for me? I'd obviously be naturalised after having lived here so long.

So does that mean it's impossible for me to avoid conscription or does it mean that the limit is the year I turn 29 or 30?

I'm still as equally confused as when I originally asked in my OP :/

necadam
Posts: 69
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Re: Max age for conscription?

Post by necadam » Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:55 pm

People are so bad at reading the laws here. :roll:
13 §
Kutsunnanalainen ei ole henkilö, joka on saanut Suomen kansalaisuuden tai päätöksen kansalaisuudesta sinä vuonna, jona hän täyttää 18 vuotta tai sen vuoden jälkeen. Hänet voidaan kuitenkin määrätä tarkastettavaksi 26 §:n mukaan.
In other words, if you are 18 years or older when you get the citizenship, you shall not be drafted (unless you apply for it, as written somewhere else in the law). So absolutely no reason to worry about.

Upphew
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Re: Max age for conscription?

Post by Upphew » Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:11 pm

necadam wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:55 pm
People are so bad at reading the laws here. :roll:
13 §
Kutsunnanalainen ei ole henkilö, joka on saanut Suomen kansalaisuuden tai päätöksen kansalaisuudesta sinä vuonna, jona hän täyttää 18 vuotta tai sen vuoden jälkeen. Hänet voidaan kuitenkin määrätä tarkastettavaksi 26 §:n mukaan.
In other words, if you are 18 years or older when you get the citizenship, you shall not be drafted (unless you apply for it, as written somewhere else in the law). So absolutely no reason to worry about.
You can end up doing the conscription even if you haven't done your draft. See 75 §.
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necadam
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Re: Max age for conscription?

Post by necadam » Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:57 pm

Upphew wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:11 pm
You can end up doing the conscription even if you haven't done your draft. See 75 §.
How does 75 § apply on AP's situation? I'd expect that someone would mention 86 §, but that's a bit extreme.

betelgeuse
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Re: Max age for conscription?

Post by betelgeuse » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:36 pm

necadam wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:55 pm
People are so bad at reading the laws here. :roll:
13 §
Kutsunnanalainen ei ole henkilö, joka on saanut Suomen kansalaisuuden tai päätöksen kansalaisuudesta sinä vuonna, jona hän täyttää 18 vuotta tai sen vuoden jälkeen. Hänet voidaan kuitenkin määrätä tarkastettavaksi 26 §:n mukaan.
In other words, if you are 18 years or older when you get the citizenship, you shall not be drafted (unless you apply for it, as written somewhere else in the law). So absolutely no reason to worry about.
You didn’t succeed any better then. Check out the 26 § referenced.

justaguy
Posts: 197
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Re: Max age for conscription?

Post by justaguy » Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:49 pm

So there's no definitive answer to my question? :|

Upphew
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Re: Max age for conscription?

Post by Upphew » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:46 am

justaguy wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:49 pm
So there's no definitive answer to my question? :|
"Velvollisuus suorittaa varusmiespalvelusta rauhan aikana päättyy sen vuoden lopussa, jona asevelvollinen täyttää 30 vuotta."
https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/ ... 1438#L5P37
http://google.com http://translate.google.com http://urbandictionary.com
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