Resident permit cancellation letter from Migri

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ddfreedie
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:11 am

Resident permit cancellation letter from Migri

Post by ddfreedie » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:29 pm

Hi

I got a letter from Migri for the same this week.

I work in IT and came to Finland on deputation which means i will be on Company Finland Oy working for a client. When the project is over i will be moved to Company home country for a different client.

I work in IT and Initially i came to Finland on July 2017 and did my first extension in Dec 2018. But during the extension i had to goto my home country as my project got over (contract with that client is over and my Finland assignment got over). I got my extension delivered to my employer who couriered it to my home country. Again i got a new project (moved from Company home country to Company Finland Oy for a new client) and travelled in Apr 2019 and continue working in Finland even now. However i had changed job in Aug 2019 but with same special expert category (mailed Migri with new contract asking them to upload in my profile for which i got reply from them also stating it has been uploaded).

All of a sudden i got letter from Migri saying my resident permit will be cancelled as the ground on which it was extended has ended. And asking for my current situation whether i am working and to submit the corresponding documents else i will be deported in 14 days.

I am worried if this will be an issue at the moment as i am in a job now and in parallel my wife resident permit is in progress based on family ties.
Unsure why all of a sudden Migri sent me this letter also. Can someone please help me understand this.



Resident permit cancellation letter from Migri

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tavastia
Posts: 488
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2016 1:54 pm

Re: Resident permit cancellation letter from Migri

Post by tavastia » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:29 am

Are you sure the old permit was not only for previous employer?

ddfreedie
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:11 am

Re: Resident permit cancellation letter from Migri

Post by ddfreedie » Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:46 am

tavastia wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:29 am
Are you sure the old permit was not only for previous employer?
Yes. Because it was applied as a Special Expert in both cases (first permit and extension permit) Apart from this is there any other place to find if my Residence permit is to tied only to a specific employer? (There is no employer name in the residence permit card)

Also to give a bit more details my initial permit was valid from July 2017 to 31.Dec.2018. I had filed for extension in Sep/Oct 2018. When the extension was in progress i had to go out of the country (technically speaking my project is over). on 3.Dec i left Finland and my extension was approved on 13.Dec 2018 and was delivered sometime in January and my employer couriered it to my home country. I got a new project, meaning a new contract technically and travelled back to Finland in April. Did this cause any issue? Because neither me nor my employer faced any issue till now and i have been paying my taxes for all salaries that i have been getting here (i.e. from July 2017 till Nov 2018 and then from Apr 2019 till now).

Also is anyone aware why this came all of a sudden? is it because of some audit done to my profile? or is it because they checked details as my spouse residence permit is being processed and this cropped up during that?

I am highly confused and i have already mailed Migri with my new contract (current one) and payslips for past 6 months. I have plans to goto Migri first up on Monday as well. But just pondering on why and how to handle this.

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fintel
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Re: Resident permit cancellation letter from Migri

Post by fintel » Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:52 pm

Special Expert. Looks like the new contract doesn't qualify you as a special expert. Maybe the new job title is not relevant to the category. Meet a lawyer.
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ddfreedie
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:11 am

Re: Resident permit cancellation letter from Migri

Post by ddfreedie » Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:59 pm

fintel wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:52 pm
Special Expert. Looks like the new contract doesn't qualify you as a special expert. Maybe the new job title is not relevant to the category. Meet a lawyer.
Do you think it would be more of a misunderstanding as the new contract will also ideally be in Special Expert category. Reason - Colleagues of mine has the same job nature as of mine as they had filed extension as special expert and it was approved.
But since i have validity for next 2 years and during active RP period i changed the job, i am facing this issue.
I am planning to goto Migri head office in Pasila on monday and if needed will goto service point in Helsinki as well.

I could see 3 options here
1. They say ok to continue with existing RP which is under special category
2. Ask me to apply new RP based on current contract under special category again
3. Deport me (for some unknown reasons at this moment)

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fintel
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Re: Resident permit cancellation letter from Migri

Post by fintel » Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:18 pm

ddfreedie wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:59 pm
I could see 3 options here
1. They say ok to continue with existing RP which is under special category
2. Ask me to apply new RP based on current contract under special category again
3. Deport me (for some unknown reasons at this moment)
Yes these are the options it appears. Maybe they just want you to reapply and pay the fee.

Rule of the thumb I think here is that you shouldn't upload stuff to migri unless absolutely necessary or your resident permit is expiring soon.

It is like awakening the sleeping giant.
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ddfreedie
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Re: Resident permit cancellation letter from Migri

Post by ddfreedie » Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:25 pm

fintel wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:18 pm
ddfreedie wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:59 pm
I could see 3 options here
1. They say ok to continue with existing RP which is under special category
2. Ask me to apply new RP based on current contract under special category again
3. Deport me (for some unknown reasons at this moment)
Yes these are the options it appears. Maybe they just want you to reapply and pay the fee.

Rule of the thumb I think here is that you shouldn't upload stuff to migri unless absolutely necessary or your resident permit is expiring soon.

It is like awakening the sleeping giant.
Seriously. Also each case is handled by a different person and the perspective changes. Because in Migri site it cleanly says we can change job within same category and no need to get new permit again. I will update this chain once i get details from Migri so that others can be aware.

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rinso
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Re: Resident permit cancellation letter from Migri

Post by rinso » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:09 pm

I get the impression that you have a confusing situation. (in, extention, out, in, change)
Maybe someone at migri thinks it is easier to reset and just canceled.
If the discussion doesn't help, you should appeal the decision to cancel.

ddfreedie
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Re: Resident permit cancellation letter from Migri

Post by ddfreedie » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:31 pm

I went to Migri pasila and they told to goto Service point in Helsinki.
I went to Helsinki and the security said they cannot do anything and asked me to mail and wait.
After explaining them my situation for 15 mins he agreed to go check it. I handed over my RP to him and he went in and came out in 60 sec and said all looks ok. When i asked him how is it now ok when i had already mailed my new contract in August, he said, may be there could be some issue and he said i will get a reply soon.
I had called the customer case and she said she is able to see the contract uploaded in August and also a decision is taken regarding the letter and i will get the decision soon although she told she cannot let me know the decision.
Asking for the reason why the letter was sent, she said possible reason could be that Migri wanted to check if i was still having valid job (Confused?? Cant they check my tax contributions and other if wanted to know i am employed still).
However i am yet to reply to the mails i sent to Migri over the weekend. I did mail directly to the Immigration Advisor also along with [email protected].

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rinso
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Re: Resident permit cancellation letter from Migri

Post by rinso » Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:02 pm

All of a sudden i got letter from Migri saying my resident permit will be cancelled as the ground on which it was extended has ended. And asking for my current situation whether i am working and to submit the corresponding documents else i will be deported in 14 days.
I had called the customer case and she said she is able to see the contract uploaded in August and also a decision is taken regarding the letter and i will get the decision soon although she told she cannot let me know the decision.
So you did what they asked and they processed the new information.
Seems to me you have nothing to worry about if your new job is legit.
When you get an invitation to go to the police to hear the decision, it's time to panic.

ddfreedie
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:11 am

Re: Resident permit cancellation letter from Migri

Post by ddfreedie » Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:53 pm

I got the letter from Migri stating that they are not cancelling my permit. However there is one line which still bugs me. Not sure this line is added without any conditions mentioned.

In Finnish - "Usteella oleskeluluvan myontasmisen edellytykset ovat vaikka oleskeluluvan peruuttamiselle ei ole talla hetkella perusteita, Maahanmuttivirasto voi myohemmin ottaa oleskeluluvan peruuttamisen uudelleen."

In English - "The conditions for granting the Residence Permit are: Although there are currently no grounds to revoke the Residence permit, The Finnish immigration may subsequently reconsider the withdrawal of the residence permit"

Nikhil18oct
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Re: Resident permit cancellation letter from Migri

Post by Nikhil18oct » Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:26 pm

ddfreedie wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:53 pm
I got the letter from Migri stating that they are not cancelling my permit. However there is one line which still bugs me. Not sure this line is added without any conditions mentioned.

In Finnish - "Usteella oleskeluluvan myontasmisen edellytykset ovat vaikka oleskeluluvan peruuttamiselle ei ole talla hetkella perusteita, Maahanmuttivirasto voi myohemmin ottaa oleskeluluvan peruuttamisen uudelleen."

In English - "The conditions for granting the Residence Permit are: Although there are currently no grounds to revoke the Residence permit, The Finnish immigration may subsequently reconsider the withdrawal of the residence permit"
Is there any update on this?

ddfreedie
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:11 am

Re: Resident permit cancellation letter from Migri

Post by ddfreedie » Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:28 pm

Nikhil18oct wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:26 pm
ddfreedie wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:53 pm
I got the letter from Migri stating that they are not cancelling my permit. However there is one line which still bugs me. Not sure this line is added without any conditions mentioned.

In Finnish - "Usteella oleskeluluvan myontasmisen edellytykset ovat vaikka oleskeluluvan peruuttamiselle ei ole talla hetkella perusteita, Maahanmuttivirasto voi myohemmin ottaa oleskeluluvan peruuttamisen uudelleen."

In English - "The conditions for granting the Residence Permit are: Although there are currently no grounds to revoke the Residence permit, The Finnish immigration may subsequently reconsider the withdrawal of the residence permit"
Is there any update on this?
I tried calling them but they couldnt understand or they werent able to explain clearly.
All they said was if situation change, Migri will consider to cancel it. But talking to people, i understand that if i lose job, then i lose my RP.

which also raised a question to me. If i lose the job, will my RP be cancelled and i will be sent back? wont there be time for me to search for a job till my RP ends (also assume i am member of union fund where i can/will get unemployment fund or even from kela if not a member of any union)

suomynona.yllatot
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Re: Resident permit cancellation letter from Migri

Post by suomynona.yllatot » Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:36 pm

ddfreedie wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:28 pm
In English - "The conditions for granting the Residence Permit are: Although there are currently no grounds to revoke the Residence permit, The Finnish immigration may subsequently reconsider the withdrawal of the residence permit"
This is a statement of power! I.e. the worst interpretation (interpretation, not translation) of this is: we are watching everybody, because everybody that comes to Finland is because they are in awe of it, and will try to stay at every cost, and so we are constantly watching over you to see if/ when something happens.

At worst case, they could raise an argument that e.g. you've lost your job before and you've lost your job again, so we deem you to be no good and hence we are cancelling your permit - which you can appeal in court.

As such the sentence is redundant! I'd say since they took the pains to write a specific clause down, they should have written all the clauses down!!! It basically means that if your situation changes for any reason, e.g. you are convicted of a crime, they can withdraw the permit. You can stop worrying about it.
ddfreedie wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:28 pm
I tried calling them but they couldnt understand or they werent able to explain clearly. All they said was if situation change, Migri will consider to cancel it. But talking to people, i understand that if i lose job, then i lose my RP.
Don't worry about their competence, it has been raised many times, and recently as well. You aren't the first, you won't be the last. A number of my posts have mentioned that most of the brains are inbred, and intellectual midgets! They cannot think beyond what they've been told. Google Sääntö Suomi!
ddfreedie wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:28 pm
which also raised a question to me. If i lose the job, will my RP be cancelled and i will be sent back? wont there be time for me to search for a job till my RP ends (also assume i am member of union fund where i can/will get unemployment fund or even from kela if not a member of any union)
Aha, now you get it. For me, it also raises a number of other issues: You're paying taxes, you are rightfully due to the benefits for as long as your residence is valid. For sure, if the grounds for renewing the residence are no longer prevailing, then they would not renew your residence permit.

The core principle was this: To weed out e.g. residence permits on false grounds, e.g. sham marriages, or fake job offers. Unfortunately, they follow the written sentence (absolute of the law) than the principle of the law (objective of the law).

I know it can be a daunting feeling! But since you have the letter saying that the permit is not being cancelled, you could relax! :)
Yep, it is! What's the big deal?

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rinso
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Re: Resident permit cancellation letter from Migri

Post by rinso » Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:53 pm

All they said was if situation change, Migri will consider to cancel it. But talking to people, i understand that if i lose job, then i lose my RP.

which also raised a question to me. If i lose the job, will my RP be cancelled and i will be sent back? wont there be time for me to search for a job till my RP ends (also assume i am member of union fund where i can/will get unemployment fund or even from kela if not a member of any union)
Indeed, if the reason for your RP no longer exists, the RP can be canceled. That is how you should read the letter from migri.
Surviving on unemployment funds or Kela handouts is not a valid reason for an RP.
As long as your job is save, you can stop worrying. (Migri is not actively hunting for invalid RP's) But it is good to develop a plan for the future.


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