Noisy neighbors

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Mizu1993
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Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:26 pm

Noisy neighbors

Post by Mizu1993 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:35 pm

I'm already on the edge of getting insane. First, I live in Tampere, I am living on the third floor of an apartment block and the rent is actually super high, so for that I would actually think that the apartments are good. So my neighbor above me, is constantly stomping around and a talking loudly, especially in the night. I don't know if I can do something about it. Since I don't speak finnish, I won't have much chance that someone understands me here when I talk in English. Other neighbor, diagonally above from me, makes party ever weekend. Since that person is a foreigner and also doesn't speak English, I complained to him already. It got better, but there is quite often still screaming and music. What can I do? Though I can handle the person who does the party's better than the guy above me who is apparently walking at least until midnight and he is probably at work from Monday to Friday, because it's quiet at day time, mostly. I have a 2 year old child, who also wakes up through the trampling and talking in the night. So mostly we have to wait until this guy is asleep or quiet and at 7 he wakes us up. I hate this, what can I do? Is it Sol (the company) where I can or should complain? I am probably also not quiet, especially because I have a small child, but my daughter goes to sleep at 22 o'clock, so after this, my apartment is quiet. Unless she wakes up through the noise and cries because of it.



Noisy neighbors

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Piet
Posts: 526
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:45 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Noisy neighbors

Post by Piet » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:59 pm

Mizu1993 wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:35 pm
I'm already on the edge of getting insane. First, I live in Tampere, I am living on the third floor of an apartment block and the rent is actually super high, so for that I would actually think that the apartments are good. So my neighbor above me, is constantly stomping around and a talking loudly, especially in the night. I don't know if I can do something about it. Since I don't speak finnish, I won't have much chance that someone understands me here when I talk in English. Other neighbor, diagonally above from me, makes party ever weekend. Since that person is a foreigner and also doesn't speak English, I complained to him already. It got better, but there is quite often still screaming and music. What can I do? Though I can handle the person who does the party's better than the guy above me who is apparently walking at least until midnight and he is probably at work from Monday to Friday, because it's quiet at day time, mostly. I have a 2 year old child, who also wakes up through the trampling and talking in the night. So mostly we have to wait until this guy is asleep or quiet and at 7 he wakes us up. I hate this, what can I do? Is it Sol (the company) where I can or should complain? I am probably also not quiet, especially because I have a small child, but my daughter goes to sleep at 22 o'clock, so after this, my apartment is quiet. Unless she wakes up through the noise and cries because of it.
Consider moving to outside of the city to a (more) rural area where the rent is super affordable.

There are only a few expensive places in Finland and you happen to live in one of them. (Capital region / Turku / Tampere).
Consider a "rivitalo" no neigbours above, only next wall. or even better "pari talo", make sure the kids sleep on the outside wall side.
Most of the time this means old housing (companies) let say build in late 80's begin 90's

When living in more rural area, you might want to be sure to own a car then though. Public transport sucks in rural area's.

Another option is ear plugs :wink: (not the cheap ones but the cleanable custom made ones. (I have them for riding the motor-bike)

Neighbours will always be noisy and the average "kerrostalo" in Finland is not famous for its sound proofing. Learn to live with it or get used to fill in complaint forms regularly and still being ignored by both neighbours and housing company and soon considered a troublemaking foreigner.... oh wait, you will be considered so anyway, so nothing to lose :lol:
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riku2
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Re: Noisy neighbors

Post by riku2 » Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:02 am

The quality of the soundproofing is related to the age of the building, not how much you are paying per month. A flat from 2010 - you can hardly tell if the flat above is occupied or not. A flat from 1960 - even in a top floor apartment you can hear the footsteps of kids/heavy footed adults who are two floors below. In an old flat you might be lucky (an old person who goes to bed at 9pm) but they might be replaced with a family with a kid that runs around non stop.
I don't see that the problem or the answers are anything unique to Finland. I bought a detached house with the nearest house 90m from my walls. I have not heard noise from the neighbours in 20 years.

Mizu1993
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Re: Noisy neighbors

Post by Mizu1993 » Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:08 am

riku2 wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:02 am
The quality of the soundproofing is related to the age of the building, not how much you are paying per month. A flat from 2010 - you can hardly tell if the flat above is occupied or not. A flat from 1960 - even in a top floor apartment you can hear the footsteps of kids/heavy footed adults who are two floors below. In an old flat you might be lucky (an old person who goes to bed at 9pm) but they might be replaced with a family with a kid that runs around non stop.
I don't see that the problem or the answers are anything unique to Finland. I bought a detached house with the nearest house 90m from my walls. I have not heard noise from the neighbours in 20 years.
If I would have the money, I would also live in a house to avoid this stupid neighbor problem

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agroot
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Re: Noisy neighbors

Post by agroot » Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:18 pm

riku2 wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:02 am
The quality of the soundproofing is related to the age of the building, not how much you are paying per month. A flat from 2010 - you can hardly tell if the flat above is occupied or not. A flat from 1960 - even in a top floor apartment you can hear the footsteps of kids/heavy footed adults who are two floors below.
Thanks for the advice!!

BTW since rent of new flats is not really higher than old ones (at least in Helsinki), OP could consider to move?

Mizu1993
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Re: Noisy neighbors

Post by Mizu1993 » Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:14 pm

agroot wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:18 pm
riku2 wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:02 am
The quality of the soundproofing is related to the age of the building, not how much you are paying per month. A flat from 2010 - you can hardly tell if the flat above is occupied or not. A flat from 1960 - even in a top floor apartment you can hear the footsteps of kids/heavy footed adults who are two floors below.
Thanks for the advice!!

BTW since rent of new flats is not really higher than old ones (at least in Helsinki), OP could consider to move?
I already tried to move, but it's so hard to get an apartment, especially as a foreigner who doesn't speak much finnish. My rent is now 890€, it's so insanely expensive x.x

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agroot
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Re: Noisy neighbors

Post by agroot » Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:03 pm

Mizu1993 wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:14 pm
I already tried to move, but it's so hard to get an apartment, especially as a foreigner who doesn't speak much finnish. My rent is now 890€, it's so insanely expensive x.x
How big is that? I thought Tampere would be much cheaper than Helsinki.

I don't know any Finnish either and have an obvious non-European name. Anyway a second try on repeatedly showing flats on asunnot.oikotie.fi worked - there was no competition.

Are you not leaving Finland or getting a job?? The latter should help as well.

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Piet
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Re: Noisy neighbors

Post by Piet » Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:46 am

agroot wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:03 pm

How big is that? I thought Tampere would be much cheaper than Helsinki.

I don't know any Finnish either and have an obvious non-European name. Anyway a second try on repeatedly showing flats on asunnot.oikotie.fi worked - there was no competition.

Are you not leaving Finland or getting a job?? The latter should help as well.
That Rental prize is actually cheap compared to what most rents here in Espoo are, but again, depending on the amount of square meters you have.
In Espoo it will get you at the state funded rental corporations a square meter home of about 80, so not so big but not very small either.
I guess you have a 3 room apartment (because you have a 2 year old child having her own room yes?). The rental sum is including the heat and standard speed internet 10 or 20Mbit downstream and standard free cable TV or central antenna system.

This rental price is quite standard in my experience, the quality of the building is not so very important as long as it meets the legal standards regarding safety and health regulations. For a monthly 15€ extra you will get a parking place with a car heater electricity pole/box.

In Forssa you might get the same for 650€ or even less, but then... it is a town known for it's intolerance to (coloured) foreigners if you have to believe you-tube.

A job is not necessarily helping you out here on the finances, hence all kind of benefits disappear when you get (more) income.
example: family with 3 children and 2 unemployed parents in a rental home of 1500€, will need a 1 person salary of about 3800€* gross to break even with the benefits. any less earning from the job means less income a month, and this is without the costs for a car what you will need for the job for example. Besides the fact that daycare will cost money when having a salary, as will medicine, healthcare etc..
Basically it means that in such a situation you basic needs will only be covered when you have a salary higher than 3800€ a month because the benefits are the bare minimum of what such family needs to stay alive.

* (note: information based on my knowledge of about 10 years ago plus devaluation).

Just to be sure and understand your situation, you do receive asumistuki? (rental support benefits) and child benefits and child home care benefits etc:
Did you ever apply for toimeentulotuki? if will make up the difference up to the minimum basic amount set by the government.
You can receive also toimeentulotuki when you have a job but your salary is insufficient to reach this basic amount.

If you as a family are able to live and spend you money wisely (no drinking alcohol and no smoking, no expensive hobbies, shop wisely at lidl and don't fall for advertisements that lure you into buying more than you need), you are well able to live from this basic amount, so at that point it does not matter any more what your rent is, it is all about what you NEED and not any-more about what you want.

I understand that you NEED a good night rest and so does your kid. I would like to advise you to check out what you really need and based on that, make a plan to either move to a cheap area (rural) and keep your current spending habit, or learn to live with less but get a better (bigger) home in the outskirts of the city Tampere but definitely not in a kerros talo (rivi talo would be way more quiet and almost the same rent).
And after 3 months apply for toimeentulotuki if you have not enough resources to match the basic minimum. (unless you have other assets like an expensive car worth more than 5k, stocks, savings account, jewellery, cash...etc.) .

some helpful information just at the kela website:
https://www.kela.fi/web/en/families-quick-guide
https://www.kela.fi/web/en/housing-benefits-quick-guide
https://www.kela.fi/web/en/social-assis ... uick-guide

Or just accept your noisy neighbours without too much complaining, because complaining will make you enemies, and enemies as a neighbour that speak fluently Finnish at a neighbour / residents counsel meetings, will burn you to the ground and get you evicted (read some other post about that here, got a friend with 4 children and a dying wife that got teased away only because he was right and his neighbours did not like he exposed them with proof as fraudsters, even the housing company employee from Kojamo was not listening to it).

Good luck with your quest anyway.
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agroot
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Re: Noisy neighbors

Post by agroot » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:08 am

Piet wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:46 am
Or just accept your noisy neighbours without too much complaining, because complaining will make you enemies, and enemies as a neighbour that speak fluently Finnish at a neighbour / residents counsel meetings, will burn you to the ground and get you evicted (read some other post about that here, got a friend with 4 children and a dying wife that got teased away only because he was right and his neighbours did not like he exposed them with proof as fraudsters, even the housing company employee from Kojamo was not listening to it).
:shock: :shock:

Is such counsel meeting for home owners only? I'm sure I have never been invited as a tenant and most neighbors I met don't know really the building (public facilities), probably all tenants.

riku2
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Re: Noisy neighbors

Post by riku2 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:13 am

The meeting is for the owners (regardless of whether they live in the building themselves) since they are making decisions about the financial state of the building and what optional repairs/renovations should be done and the owners will the ones footing the bill based on their decisions. The tenants don't directly pay for those things but it might eventually be reflected in their rents (depending on the will of the owner).

This is one problem of having many flats in the building owned by investors - they don't care about renovations that improve the quality of life for the residents unless the renovation is so good that it improves the resale value of the flat and that's only true if the place is a real dump and people wouldn't buy otherwise.

betelgeuse
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Re: Noisy neighbors

Post by betelgeuse » Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:33 am

riku2 wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:13 am
The meeting is for the owners (regardless of whether they live in the building themselves) since they are making decisions about the financial state of the building and what optional repairs/renovations should be done and the owners will the ones footing the bill based on their decisions. The tenants don't directly pay for those things but it might eventually be reflected in their rents (depending on the will of the owner).
Tenants also have the right to participate when there are agenda items that have an effect on their life.

https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/ ... 99#O3L6P11
riku2 wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:13 am
This is one problem of having many flats in the building owned by investors - they don't care about renovations that improve the quality of life for the residents unless the renovation is so good that it improves the resale value of the flat and that's only true if the place is a real dump and people wouldn't buy otherwise.
As with non investors there is variance. For non investors, old people can often be reluctant to renovate since fees would go up. Investors often can see the big picture and know that doing things in a proactive and planned way is cheaper in the long term.

Mizu1993
Posts: 68
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Re: Noisy neighbors

Post by Mizu1993 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:04 am

My flat is 52m².
Today is another day like this. It's midnight now, my daughter just went to sleep. She was tired for 3 hours and couldn't sleep due the loud noises. I can't sleep either. I have ear plugs in now, but I can still hear them. This happens every weekend and sometimes during the week. Is there nothing I can do other than moving out. I mean, I can't always go up there and complain. If I call police, I might get more problems? I don't know :(

Mizu1993
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Re: Noisy neighbors

Post by Mizu1993 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:26 pm

The party upstairs ended at 2 in the morning and apparently they continue today, since it's loud since 30 minutes again. My daughter woke up several times. Everyone is always saying, a child need to go to bed early and needs a rhythm. I wonder how I should do this.

tkt234
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Re: Noisy neighbors

Post by tkt234 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:08 pm

Mizu1993 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:26 pm
The party upstairs ended at 2 in the morning and apparently they continue today, since it's loud since 30 minutes again. My daughter woke up several times. Everyone is always saying, a child need to go to bed early and needs a rhythm. I wonder how I should do this.
I live in Estonia and I have heard that in Finland rental apartment rates are not cheap.
In Estonia (nearby to Tallinn) I have never had problems with noisy neihgbors.
I know a Finnish man who lives in Espoo and rents a apartment for 700 euros month. So 890 euros is too high I would think also.
For me only solution would be to move to another apartment.
Tampere is about 200km away from Helsinki and rental rates should be cheaper there.
You could try calling police if you have problems. They might help you.

I remember 1 more thing from Finland - 2 years or 3 years ago I was in Ruka for vacation with my girlfriend and rented a aprtment just for 4 days with Sauna and some man climbed down from 2 floor to first floor from the balcony somehow. Since that moment I had never ever seen such thing before. He was under 18 age I think.
That guy was also partying type, they were partying also on 2nd floor. And I was sleeping on first floor.
However when it was loud I called Ruka accomodation and complained and then those who were partying turned the volume down.

So I would complain somewhere if I was you.

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Piet
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Re: Noisy neighbors

Post by Piet » Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:10 pm

https://asunnot.oikotie.fi/vuokrattavat ... e/15382894

Just an idea if you want to live in nature, and have a car and want to move now!! ... :wink:
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