Car heating power requirements

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drk
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:05 pm

Car heating power requirements

Post by drk » Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:31 am

Hi all

I just want to check something. I recently built my own "smart" car heating system. Essentially it's a socket connected to a relay I can switch on/off from my phone. So it's an absolutely normal socket providing 225V (measured with multimeter).

But my question is, do car heating sockets (the ones you see everywhere) have specific power specifications? Or are they just regular switched sockets? Can I plug my car into just any old regular socket and everything will be fine?

My second hand car has a defa plug if it matters at all.



Car heating power requirements

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Upphew
Posts: 10574
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:55 pm
Location: Lappeenranta

Re: Car heating power requirements

Post by Upphew » Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:35 am

drk wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:31 am
Hi all

I just want to check something. I recently built my own "smart" car heating system. Essentially it's a socket connected to a relay I can switch on/off from my phone. So it's an absolutely normal socket providing 225V (measured with multimeter).

But my question is, do car heating sockets (the ones you see everywhere) have specific power specifications? Or are they just regular switched sockets? Can I plug my car into just any old regular socket and everything will be fine?

My second hand car has a defa plug if it matters at all.
Depends what you have in your car. Most likely the block heater is in the 600W ballpark (as that is the number Defa uses on their website). Then the interior heater on top of that... 1100 and upward. Can your fuses cope with that?

The interior heaters are banned in many older apartments' car places as 40*2kw is too much for the existing circuit.
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drk
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:05 pm

Re: Car heating power requirements

Post by drk » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:44 pm

Thanks for the reply Upphew

The circuit can handle it, no problem there. I bought the car second hand and I don't know much about this car heating stuff as it doesn't exist in my home country.

The interior heater is 1400W but the engine heater is a bit of a black box to me. I was more wondering if the defa cables just take regular outlet power (the connectors are regular ones so I assume so), or if the heating sockets in Finland have something special to them.

I assume I can just feed regular power into the car via the default socket and it wouldn't harm anything in the car. Is that correct?

Upphew
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Location: Lappeenranta

Re: Car heating power requirements

Post by Upphew » Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:58 pm

drk wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:44 pm
Thanks for the reply Upphew

The circuit can handle it, no problem there. I bought the car second hand and I don't know much about this car heating stuff as it doesn't exist in my home country.

The interior heater is 1400W but the engine heater is a bit of a black box to me. I was more wondering if the defa cables just take regular outlet power (the connectors are regular ones so I assume so), or if the heating sockets in Finland have something special to them.

I assume I can just feed regular power into the car via the default socket and it wouldn't harm anything in the car. Is that correct?
Yup. Adjust your heating time according to weather, but usually you are looking at max 3 hours. Also see that your interior heater isn't blocked. Older ones could be fire hazard, newer should have thermal cut off. But I still tend to fry one snow brush per year...
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jarikaija
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:28 pm

Re: Car heating power requirements

Post by jarikaija » Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:24 pm

drk wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:44 pm
---or if the heating sockets in Finland have something special to them.
This is not USA or Thailand or ...., where every houses have mysterious electric
connections usually by own transformer on closest electric pole. And at carages a
lot different variaton for electric plugs. Single phase, phase-phase. 3-phase and so on.

We have:
230V voltage on single phase.
And 3 phase 400V.

And that's all...

Car pole can have timer + automatic fuse + residual-current device on
box, but those doesn't change voltages to anywhere...

Fuses on poles are many times choosed as 6A, so you can have max 1380W heater.

-Jari

riku2
Posts: 916
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:13 pm

Re: Car heating power requirements

Post by riku2 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:59 am

This is not USA or Thailand or ...., where every houses have mysterious electric
well it is a bit mysterious since not many countries have domestic properties supplied with 3 phase power. When I bought my cooker it seemed that in Sweden they have standardised on a huge plug for single phase high current delivery but in Finland the same cooker is connected to all three phases.
Plus in Finland I see many houses with two pin unearthed round sockets - you must go back to 1930's to find that in the UK. And still in the shops you can buy extension cables with round sockets that will take a 16A shuko plug but without any earth connection provided.
What happened to the need for the earth connection (especially when the device comes with a round shuko plug with an earth connection on it!!).

jarikaija
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Re: Car heating power requirements

Post by jarikaija » Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:29 pm

riku2 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:59 am
What happened to the need for the earth connection (especially when the device comes with a round shuko plug with an earth connection on it!!).
Some rules on finnish electric assemblies:

If a room have even an one schuko (with earth) socket, then all other sockets have to be same kind too.

If a room have a socket without earth connection, then can't add one with schuko without replacing all old too.

If a room have a draining (+ shower), then water splash tight schuko required too.
I don't remember now what was the IP-xx requirements for that...

All sockets have to be NOW behind residual-current protector, when new assemblies.

If old house, before a new law came into effect, then don't. But all assemblies
after that and reneved assemblies have to be behind residual-current protector.
And all old assemblies have to change to fulfill new standards too on the same room...

If you use some product with schuko plug in it and pull it to non schuko socket,
it is up to you... I wouldn't... But yes, have those a lot on old houses...
Last edited by jarikaija on Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

riku2
Posts: 916
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:13 pm

Re: Car heating power requirements

Post by riku2 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:39 pm

but what is this thing doing on sale in finland? you can plug earthed shuko plugs into it and it happily ignores the earth. Try going to the UK and buying an extension lead without earth connections - they just don't exist.
I have not seen this style of socket in Germany or France and don't understand why it's on sale in Finland (the image if from Clas Ohlson today). Is everyone expected to know about earth connections and decide which kind of extension lead to buy?

Image

jarikaija
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:28 pm

Re: Car heating power requirements

Post by jarikaija » Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:43 am

riku2 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:39 pm
but what is this thing doing on sale in finland? you can plug earthed shuko plugs into it and it happily ignores the earth. Try going to the UK and buying an extension lead without earth connections - they just don't exist.
I have not seen this style of socket in Germany or France and don't understand why it's on sale in Finland (the image if from Clas Ohlson today). Is everyone expected to know about earth connections and decide which kind of extension lead to buy?
Maybe in here, authorities believes, that people know what to do with those 8)

As I told, there is a LOT old houses, where those kind of extension cords are just good.
AND! If those extension cords have a round edge blug, you can't even pull those to schuko socket!

And if people use that kind of extension for machine, what is mentioned to use with earth protection,
it is up to people use or not...

Is it wise to sold those. No.

Upphew
Posts: 10574
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Location: Lappeenranta

Re: Car heating power requirements

Post by Upphew » Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:40 am

riku2 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:39 pm
but what is this thing doing on sale in finland? you can plug earthed shuko plugs into it and it happily ignores the earth. Try going to the UK and buying an extension lead without earth connections - they just don't exist.
I have not seen this style of socket in Germany or France and don't understand why it's on sale in Finland (the image if from Clas Ohlson today). Is everyone expected to know about earth connections and decide which kind of extension lead to buy?

Image
That extension cord won't plug to socket with earth connection. And sockets without earth connection shouldn't have earthing risk. Thus when you live in old apartment, you have earthed connection in kitchen or toilet (water tap could be earth connection), but likely not in other parts of apartment. See: https://stek.fi/question/maadoittamaton ... olaitteet/
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