Unemployment Benefit for Self Employed due to Covid-19 and EU Right of Residence

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Maaria
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Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:49 am

Unemployment Benefit for Self Employed due to Covid-19 and EU Right of Residence

Post by Maaria » Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:23 pm

Kela is paying unemployment benefit to self employed people who lost income due to corona virus situation.

I am trying to find out if I got my right of residence for EU citizen on the basis of self employment, is there any possibility Migri could cancel EU right of residence of a self employed person who claims this unemployment benefit?



Unemployment Benefit for Self Employed due to Covid-19 and EU Right of Residence

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rinso
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Re: Unemployment Benefit for Self Employed due to Covid-19 and EU Right of Residence

Post by rinso » Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:16 am

Maaria wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:23 pm
Kela is paying unemployment benefit to self employed people who lost income due to corona virus situation.

I am trying to find out if I got my right of residence for EU citizen on the basis of self employment, is there any possibility Migri could cancel EU right of residence of a self employed person who claims this unemployment benefit?
There are checks to see how profitable your business was before the crises. Decisions are made based on that information. No idea if Migri also uses it.

FinlandGirl
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Re: Unemployment Benefit for Self Employed due to Covid-19 and EU Right of Residence

Post by FinlandGirl » Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:59 am

rinso wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:16 am
Maaria wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:23 pm
Kela is paying unemployment benefit to self employed people who lost income due to corona virus situation.

I am trying to find out if I got my right of residence for EU citizen on the basis of self employment, is there any possibility Migri could cancel EU right of residence of a self employed person who claims this unemployment benefit?
There are checks to see how profitable your business was before the crises.
Profitability of the business is irrelevant when registering as unemployed.

FinlandGirl
Posts: 405
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: Unemployment Benefit for Self Employed due to Covid-19 and EU Right of Residence

Post by FinlandGirl » Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:59 am

Maaria wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:23 pm
Kela is paying unemployment benefit to self employed people who lost income due to corona virus situation.

I am trying to find out if I got my right of residence for EU citizen on the basis of self employment, is there any possibility Migri could cancel EU right of residence of a self employed person who claims this unemployment benefit?
No.

Maaria
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:49 am

Re: Unemployment Benefit for Self Employed due to Covid-19 and EU Right of Residence

Post by Maaria » Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:26 pm

FinlandGirl wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:59 am
Maaria wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:23 pm
Kela is paying unemployment benefit to self employed people who lost income due to corona virus situation.

I am trying to find out if I got my right of residence for EU citizen on the basis of self employment, is there any possibility Migri could cancel EU right of residence of a self employed person who claims this unemployment benefit?
No.
To apply for this unemployment benefit, a self employed person has to register as an unemployed jobseeker with TE Services. Can that not cause issue with Migri? Migri stated on the website that one of the reasons Migri can cancel the right if residence is: The grounds on which your right of residence was registered no longer exist.

betelgeuse
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Re: Unemployment Benefit for Self Employed due to Covid-19 and EU Right of Residence

Post by betelgeuse » Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:12 pm

Maaria wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:26 pm
To apply for this unemployment benefit, a self employed person has to register as an unemployed jobseeker with TE Services. Can that not cause issue with Migri? Migri stated on the website that one of the reasons Migri can cancel the right if residence is: The grounds on which your right of residence was registered no longer exist.
"have for themselves and their family members sufficient funds and, if necessary, health insurance so that, during their time of residence, they do not become a burden on Finland’s social security system by resorting repeatedly to social assistance provided in the Act on Social Assistance or other comparable benefits or in some other similar manner"

https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokse ... 101152.pdf

Would need to dive into ECJ precedent but I would be surprised if a court would allow temporary usage of unemployment benefits to suffice given that the act makes a primary reference to the Act on Social Assistance rather than, for example, unemployment benefit related acts.

Maaria
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Re: Unemployment Benefit for Self Employed due to Covid-19 and EU Right of Residence

Post by Maaria » Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:08 pm

betelgeuse wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:12 pm
"have for themselves and their family members sufficient funds and, if necessary, health insurance so that, during their time of residence, they do not become a burden on Finland’s social security system by resorting repeatedly to social assistance provided in the Act on Social Assistance or other comparable benefits or in some other similar manner"

https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokse ... 101152.pdf

Would need to dive into ECJ precedent but I would be surprised if a court would allow temporary usage of unemployment benefits to suffice given that the act makes a primary reference to the Act on Social Assistance rather than, for example, unemployment benefit related acts.
Thank you very much Betelgeuse for your input. I am struggling to find out what benefits come under social assistance. I called both kela and Migri but they didn't give me any definitive answer. For the same reason, I didn't take out child benefit and I am not sure about maternity and parental benefits either. Would you be able to guide me to what benefits come under social assistance?

I don't know where to find this info. From what kela told me, it looks like all of these benefits (unemployment, parental, child benefit, general housing allowance, etc) are social assistance. But I thought the purpose of paying social security contribution is having some sort of security when situation gets difficult.

betelgeuse
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Re: Unemployment Benefit for Self Employed due to Covid-19 and EU Right of Residence

Post by betelgeuse » Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:44 pm

Maaria wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:08 pm
Thank you very much Betelgeuse for your input. I am struggling to find out what benefits come under social assistance. I called both kela and Migri but they didn't give me any definitive answer. For the same reason, I didn't take out child benefit and I am not sure about maternity and parental benefits either. Would you be able to guide me to what benefits come under social assistance?

I don't know where to find this info. From what kela told me, it looks like all of these benefits (unemployment, parental, child benefit, general housing allowance, etc) are social assistance. But I thought the purpose of paying social security contribution is having some sort of security when situation gets difficult.
In Finnish it's toimeentulotuki.

Maaria
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Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:49 am

Re: Unemployment Benefit for Self Employed due to Covid-19 and EU Right of Residence

Post by Maaria » Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:00 pm

betelgeuse wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:44 pm

In Finnish it's toimeentulotuki.
I see. So only the income support paid by Kela comes under social assistance and nothing else?

betelgeuse
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Re: Unemployment Benefit for Self Employed due to Covid-19 and EU Right of Residence

Post by betelgeuse » Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:49 pm

Maaria wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:00 pm
betelgeuse wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:44 pm

In Finnish it's toimeentulotuki.
I see. So only the income support paid by Kela comes under social assistance and nothing else?
No. Supplementary income support (täydentävä toimeentulotuki), for example, is handled fully by municipalities.

Maaria
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:49 am

Re: Unemployment Benefit for Self Employed due to Covid-19 and EU Right of Residence

Post by Maaria » Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:16 am

betelgeuse wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:49 pm
Maaria wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:00 pm
betelgeuse wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:44 pm

In Finnish it's toimeentulotuki.
I see. So only the income support paid by Kela comes under social assistance and nothing else?
No. Supplementary income support (täydentävä toimeentulotuki), for example, is handled fully by municipalities.
Basically anything to do with income support, to qualify for which asset or savings is taken into consideration?

Maaria
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:49 am

Re: Unemployment Benefit for Self Employed due to Covid-19 and EU Right of Residence

Post by Maaria » Tue May 05, 2020 10:35 am

betelgeuse wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:12 pm
"have for themselves and their family members sufficient funds and, if necessary, health insurance so that, during their time of residence, they do not become a burden on Finland’s social security system by resorting repeatedly to social assistance provided in the Act on Social Assistance or other comparable benefits or in some other similar manner"

https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokse ... 101152.pdf

Would need to dive into ECJ precedent but I would be surprised if a court would allow temporary usage of unemployment benefits to suffice given that the act makes a primary reference to the Act on Social Assistance rather than, for example, unemployment benefit related acts.
I had another question. If my spouse, who has a residence card for a family member of an EU citizen, registers as a job seeker with TE and attend a training program offered by them to become employable in Finland, could that cause any issue to his or my residence right?

betelgeuse
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Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Unemployment Benefit for Self Employed due to Covid-19 and EU Right of Residence

Post by betelgeuse » Tue May 05, 2020 6:52 pm

Maaria wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 10:35 am
I had another question. If my spouse, who has a residence card for a family member of an EU citizen, registers as a job seeker with TE and attend a training program offered by them to become employable in Finland, could that cause any issue to his or my residence right?
Unlikely (with the already mentioned caveats). De facto Kela and TE probably aren't even allowed to disclose to Migri the fact an application has been made.

Maaria
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:49 am

Re: Unemployment Benefit for Self Employed due to Covid-19 and EU Right of Residence

Post by Maaria » Wed May 06, 2020 8:43 pm

betelgeuse wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 6:52 pm
Maaria wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 10:35 am
I had another question. If my spouse, who has a residence card for a family member of an EU citizen, registers as a job seeker with TE and attend a training program offered by them to become employable in Finland, could that cause any issue to his or my residence right?
Unlikely (with the already mentioned caveats). De facto Kela and TE probably aren't even allowed to disclose to Migri the fact an application has been made.
Does that mean government agencies don't share data with each other?

betelgeuse
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Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Unemployment Benefit for Self Employed due to Covid-19 and EU Right of Residence

Post by betelgeuse » Wed May 06, 2020 11:41 pm

Maaria wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 8:43 pm
Does that mean government agencies don't share data with each other?
The right to privacy extends to data sharing inside the government.


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