Advice needed! Change of RP grounds from work to family ties

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podgi
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Advice needed! Change of RP grounds from work to family ties

Post by podgi » Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:58 pm

Hello Everyone!
I truly hope that one of you has been in a similar situation and will be able to provide some advice and/or guidance. I am about to change my RP grounds from working as a scientific researcher to family ties (spouse is a Finnish citizen).

I’ll provide here some back story which I hope explains why I am extremely stressed about this RP ground change. I am a non-EU citizen that moved to Helsinki in August 2015 to pursue my Master’s Degree. Since then I have been residing in Helsinki on RP and extending it when necessary. My current RP has just been issued and it expires in August 2021.

In 2017, I met my, back then-boyfriend, and currently fiancé. We have been living in the same apartment since August 2017 and got engaged in January 2020. Originally, we thought that I will just extend my RP based on scientific work (as I did already), have a small wedding party in Italy in September, then get married in the Helsinki Maistraatti, so that we will have enough time to deal with bureaucracy before it is time to re-apply for next extension.

Unfortunately, the COVID outbreak changed our plans and we had to push the booked villa and the ceremony for one year (September 2021). And that’s when the problem arises. When do I need to apply for an extension of RP on new grounds (family ties) to make sure I receive it before September so that I will be able to attend my wedding party in Italy? Since we already moved it once due to corona and lost some money, I am dreading the scenario where we have to do it again. :cry:

Also, when you apply for an extension on the new grounds (family ties), which application should you fill? I saw on the Migri website an application for family ties (spouse is a Finnish citizen) that assumes that you are not in Finland. Also, the extended application on the family ties asks for the proof of finances, which is a bit confusing to me. So, you do not need to have enough money to support yourself when you apply for the first time but then you have to show them during extension? As a researcher, I largely depend on the grants and even though I have the funding till December 2021, I am not sure I will receive any new grant decisions before September 2021, so I am not sure I can prove sufficient means for Migri should we apply e.g. in April.

Are there any couples out there who had the same situation and can share their experiences and provide some advice? It will be much appreciated.



Advice needed! Change of RP grounds from work to family ties

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fintel
Posts: 175
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Re: Advice needed! Change of RP grounds from work to family ties

Post by fintel » Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:06 pm

podgi wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:58 pm
Hello Everyone!
I truly hope that one of you has been in a similar situation and will be able to provide some advice and/or guidance. I am about to change my RP grounds from working as a scientific researcher to family ties (spouse is a Finnish citizen).
You already qualify for a family permit because you have lived together for 2 years. You can make it more official by getting married at the maistraatti office. If you have a marriage certificate, you will not need to prove 2 years of cohabitation. You don't need to show means of support. You can apply for an extended permit on new grounds. Your grounds will change from study to family.

https://migri.fi/en/extended-permit

https://migri.fi/en/spouse-is-a-finnish-citizen
Last edited by fintel on Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:38 am, edited 4 times in total.
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FinlandGirl
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Re: Advice needed! Change of RP grounds from work to family ties

Post by FinlandGirl » Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:53 am

podgi wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:58 pm
Unfortunately, the COVID outbreak changed our plans and we had to push the booked villa and the ceremony for one year (September 2021). And that’s when the problem arises. When do I need to apply for an extension of RP on new grounds (family ties) to make sure I receive it before September so that I will be able to attend my wedding party in Italy?
Processing time can be 8-9 months, but the duration is hard to predict.
I would apply at least one year in advance in your situation.
podgi wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:58 pm
Also, when you apply for an extension on the new grounds (family ties), which application should you fill? I saw on the Migri website an application for family ties (spouse is a Finnish citizen) that assumes that you are not in Finland.
You must have misunderstood something, it is possible to apply from Finland.
podgi wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:58 pm
Also, when you apply for an extension on the new grounds (family ties), which application should you fill?
Form OLE_PH2 or the corresponding electronic application.
podgi wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:58 pm
Also, the extended application on the family ties asks for the proof of finances, which is a bit confusing to me.
You are looking at the wrong application, there are no means of support required for you.

podgi
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:14 pm

Re: Advice needed! Change of RP grounds from work to family ties

Post by podgi » Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:05 pm

fintel wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:06 pm
podgi wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:58 pm
Hello Everyone!
I truly hope that one of you has been in a similar situation and will be able to provide some advice and/or guidance. I am about to change my RP grounds from working as a scientific researcher to family ties (spouse is a Finnish citizen).
You already qualify for a family permit because you have lived together for 2 years. You can make it more official by getting married at the maistraatti office. If you have a marriage certificate, you will not need to prove 2 years of cohabitation. You don't need to show means of support. You can apply for an extended permit on new grounds. Your grounds will change from study to family.

https://migri.fi/en/extended-permit

https://migri.fi/en/spouse-is-a-finnish-citizen
Hello, fintel!

Thanks a lot for your reply! Since it is an extension on new grounds, would it mean that the processing time will take 1 month, as it says on the website, or would it be treated as a first permit and processed up to 9 months?

podgi
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:14 pm

Re: Advice needed! Change of RP grounds from work to family ties

Post by podgi » Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:15 pm

podgi wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:58 pm
Also, when you apply for an extension on the new grounds (family ties), which application should you fill? I saw on the Migri website an application for family ties (spouse is a Finnish citizen) that assumes that you are not in Finland.
You must have misunderstood something, it is possible to apply from Finland.

Hi FinlandGirl,

Thanks for your reply!
I do understand that it is possible to apply by filling in OLE_PH2 application when you are in Finland.
My concern is, the questions inside the application are related to couples who either didn't live together before marriage or lived together outside Finland.
My fiance and I lived in Finland together for nearly 3 years, so filling those questions seems a bit odd.
Have you lived together in the same household outside Finland? No
Have you seen each other after getting married? We live together and see each other every day.

I hope you get what I mean.

FinlandGirl
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Re: Advice needed! Change of RP grounds from work to family ties

Post by FinlandGirl » Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:45 pm

podgi wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:15 pm
My fiance and I lived in Finland together for nearly 3 years, so filling those questions seems a bit odd.
Have you lived together in the same household outside Finland? No
The Finnish Population Register tells Migri when you started living in the same household in Finland.
The Finnish Population Register does not know whether you lived in the same household abroad, they have to ask that from you.

3 + 0 >= 2 so no problem for you.
podgi wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:15 pm
Have you seen each other after getting married? We live together and see each other every day.
You are not supposed to answer this question, read the instructions in OLE_PH2.

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fintel
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Re: Advice needed! Change of RP grounds from work to family ties

Post by fintel » Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:00 pm

podgi wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:05 pm
Hello, fintel!

Thanks a lot for your reply! Since it is an extension on new grounds, would it mean that the processing time will take 1 month, as it says on the website, or would it be treated as a first permit and processed up to 9 months?
OLE_PH2 - "This form is for you if you are applying for your first Finnish residence permit on the basis of family ties."

The extension on new grounds will probably take less time because they have already established your identity. The form OLE_PH2 assumes this is your first resident permit and it will unnecessarily prolong the processing of your case. Read the first page on that form, it clearly says to use it only when applying for your first resident permit. This is not your first resident permit. This is probably your second or third, so extension is more suitable.

The DVV office can give you a certificate of living together in the same household. This will fulfill your requirement for a family based permit if living together for 2 years or more.

https://dvv.fi/en/certificates-from-the ... ion-system
Last edited by fintel on Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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FinlandGirl
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Re: Advice needed! Change of RP grounds from work to family ties

Post by FinlandGirl » Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:07 pm

fintel wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:00 pm
podgi wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:05 pm
Hello, fintel!

Thanks a lot for your reply! Since it is an extension on new grounds, would it mean that the processing time will take 1 month, as it says on the website, or would it be treated as a first permit and processed up to 9 months?
OLE_PH2 - "This form is for you if you are applying for your first Finnish residence permit on the basis of family ties."

The extension on new grounds will probably take less time because they have already established your identity. The form OLE_PH2 assumes this is your first resident permit and it will unnecessarily prolong the processing of your case. Read the first page on that form, it clearly says to use it only when applying for your first resident permit.
This is not what it says, it is you who failed to read what you quoted in bold.

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fintel
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Re: Advice needed! Change of RP grounds from work to family ties

Post by fintel » Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:45 pm

FinlandGirl wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:07 pm
This is not what it says, it is you who failed to read what you quoted in bold.
podgi, if you wish to wait 12 months for your resident permit, go ahead and take FinlandGirl's advice. If you want it sooner, apply for an extension.
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FinlandGirl
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Re: Advice needed! Change of RP grounds from work to family ties

Post by FinlandGirl » Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:37 pm

fintel wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:45 pm
FinlandGirl wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:07 pm
This is not what it says, it is you who failed to read what you quoted in bold.
podgi, if you wish to wait 12 months for your resident permit, go ahead and take FinlandGirl's advice. If you want it sooner, apply for an extension.
fintel likes to try ruining other peoples life with bad advice, don't apply too late.

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fintel
Posts: 175
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Re: Advice needed! Change of RP grounds from work to family ties

Post by fintel » Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:47 pm

FinlandGirl wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:37 pm
fintel likes to try ruining other peoples life with bad advice, don't apply too late.
FinlandGirl doesn't have a day job, she likes to make friends here because she doesn't have a life.

My advice is spot on and will save you a ton of time if you apply for an extended permit.
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podgi
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Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:14 pm

Re: Advice needed! Change of RP grounds from work to family ties

Post by podgi » Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:40 pm

fintel wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:00 pm
podgi wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:05 pm
Hello, fintel!

Thanks a lot for your reply! Since it is an extension on new grounds, would it mean that the processing time will take 1 month, as it says on the website, or would it be treated as a first permit and processed up to 9 months?
OLE_PH2 - "This form is for you if you are applying for your first Finnish residence permit on the basis of family ties."

The extension on new grounds will probably take less time because they have already established your identity. The form OLE_PH2 assumes this is your first resident permit and it will unnecessarily prolong the processing of your case. Read the first page on that form, it clearly says to use it only when applying for your first resident permit. This is not your first resident permit. This is probably your second or third, so extension is more suitable.

The DVV office can give you a certificate of living together in the same household. This will fulfill your requirement for a family based permit if living together for 2 years or more.

https://dvv.fi/en/certificates-from-the ... ion-system
Thanks for your advice! That was my thought exactly that the extension might take less time than the first permit processing. Yet, it is my own judgment, so I was hoping to hear someone else's experience/opinion.
And thanks for the link! I was just wondering how to get such a certificate in case we decide to apply on the grounds of cohabitation and save some time instead of waiting for the wedding.

Much appreciated!

podgi
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:14 pm

Re: Advice needed! Change of RP grounds from work to family ties

Post by podgi » Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:44 pm

FinlandGirl wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:45 pm
podgi wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:15 pm
My fiance and I lived in Finland together for nearly 3 years, so filling those questions seems a bit odd.
Have you lived together in the same household outside Finland? No
The Finnish Population Register tells Migri when you started living in the same household in Finland.
The Finnish Population Register does not know whether you lived in the same household abroad, they have to ask that from you.

3 + 0 >= 2 so no problem for you.
podgi wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:15 pm
Have you seen each other after getting married? We live together and see each other every day.
You are not supposed to answer this question, read the instructions in OLE_PH2.

Thanks, FinlandGirl!
I checked EnterFinland today and sorted out the application questions.
I do agree that it is better to apply in advance cause you never know how the things will go.

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fintel
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Re: Advice needed! Change of RP grounds from work to family ties

Post by fintel » Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:38 pm

podgi wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:40 pm
I was just wondering how to get such a certificate in case we decide to apply on the grounds of cohabitation and save some time instead of waiting for the wedding.
The actual wedding doesn't have to happen for a marriage certificate to be issued. A marriage certificate can be issued before the wedding. You can ask dvv office on how to make it happen in case you are unable to get a certificate of living together.
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